How about that CCAr

bubble2005

I am happy that two people have already become Cisco Certified Architects. At least this gives some indication that the exam is humanly possible to pass and hope for the rest of us interested, excluding the cost. I congratulate those two individuals for successfully obtaining the certification. A great designation. When my time comes I also want to obtain this credential. I hope at that time, ANOTHER credential is not over the CCAr.
What do you think about CCAr?

More info here: http://tiny.cc/5ojmo

bubble2005

I guess no one has been notified that there are 2 Cisco Architects now....

pitviper

Do they by chance work for....Cisco?

mikej412

pitviper wrote: »

Do they by chance work for....Cisco?

Yes, both of them -- for a long time.

It will be impressive when someone outside of Cisco earns one.... I'm thinking maybe Scott Morris is the best hope for that happening.

But unless Cisco offers some advanced partner carrot to train up and/or have a Cisco Certified Architect on staff, I don't see lots of people outside of Cisco racing to earn it.

bubble2005

mikej412 wrote: »

Yes, both of them -- for a long time.

It will be impressive when someone outside of Cisco earns one.... I'm thinking maybe Scott Morris is the best hope for that happening.

But unless Cisco offers some advanced partner carrot to train up and/or have a Cisco Certified Architect on staff, I don't see lots of people outside of Cisco racing to earn it.

Yeah that is true, they are employees from Cisco. I'm rooting for Scott.

notgoing2fail

I had this converstation recently about the newly certified CCAr's.

First I was impressed but not to take anything away from these geniuses, I got a little less impressed when I found out they not only worked for cisco but are part of the development of it.

Secondly, as I commented with someone else, it seems the CCAr is designed to be a money make for Cisco in terms of complete ownership of a company's equipment vendor choices. Here's what I mean....


Unless you are blessed to work with a company that is completely sold on Cisco, you the architect has to convince everyone at your company that from stage 1 to the last stage, all equipment is Cisco.

How many people on the board are going to go with that????

You have to convince that whatever equipment you need, Cisco can do it better and more economical. Is that true? Can it be true?

Are you the architect, (CCAr), who is hired by ACME company, looking out for the best interest of the company (ACME) or Cisco?

I was at a recent interview just last week actually where they told me that most of their customers use Sonicwall equipment with some Juniper and a few sprinkles of Cisco.

This didn't bode well for me at all who was looking to provide some Cisco consultant work.

I could be completely misinterpreting the CCAr and totally looking foolish. But to me it seems like Cisco wants a certification that will encapsulate the engineer, the sales guy, and designer all in one.

stuh84

I think you are assuming that if you follow the Cisco track, you can't ever work with another providers equipment, which just isn't the case. Also, from what I've noticed, while Cisco's qualifications always reference their own equipment, they do seem to put forward many principles and standards of networking.

Plus, if you look at it as "Cisco say to put a 2950 here with 24 ports, I'll use another manufacturers equivalent" or "Cisco say use a 2811 here in this scenario, I'll use a J-Series Juniper".

I would say that network design is network design, regardless of manufacturer, you can do a good network, you can do a bad network, the design is more based upon how you approach it, not on the model numbers. Obviously some manufacturers approaches to their equipment will change design slightly, but its not as if you are going to go "I'm not going to have a distribution layer because I'm using Brocade instead of Cisco" or "I shall use static routing completely to multihome connections instead of BGP, as I'm using Juniper instead of Cisco"

notgoing2fail

stuh84 wrote: »

I think you are assuming that if you follow the Cisco track, you can't ever work with another providers equipment, which just isn't the case. Also, from what I've noticed, while Cisco's qualifications always reference their own equipment, they do seem to put forward many principles and standards of networking.

Plus, if you look at it as "Cisco say to put a 2950 here with 24 ports, I'll use another manufacturers equivalent" or "Cisco say use a 2811 here in this scenario, I'll use a J-Series Juniper".

I would say that network design is network design, regardless of manufacturer, you can do a good network, you can do a bad network, the design is more based upon how you approach it, not on the model numbers. Obviously some manufacturers approaches to their equipment will change design slightly, but its not as if you are going to go "I'm not going to have a distribution layer because I'm using Brocade instead of Cisco" or "I shall use static routing completely to multihome connections instead of BGP, as I'm using Juniper instead of Cisco"

Oh absolutely agreed. My initial impression of the CCAr is that that is what Cisco would like the architect to do. As an architect, it's more about the design than any specific model.

But the advantage for Cisco is that chances are, that CCAr will be quite knowledgable in regards to Cisco products than other vendors. It doesn't mean that they won't know a thing about Juniper or other competing vendors.

This goes for any certification in general. But naturally, it makes sense, if you are a CCAr, you're going to and perhaps without saying too much, expected to provide Cisco products in your solution.

And I think that is what Cisco is banking on, someone who won't even consider other vendors. But Cisco has every right to create any certification they want.

It does kind of irk me that it is ABOVE the CCIE.

EMcCaleb

notgoing2fail wrote: »

I had this converstation recently about the newly certified CCAr's.

First I was impressed but not to take anything away from these geniuses, I got a little less impressed when I found out they not only worked for cisco but are part of the development of it.

Secondly, as I commented with someone else, it seems the CCAr is designed to be a money make for Cisco in terms of complete ownership of a company's equipment vendor choices. Here's what I mean....


Unless you are blessed to work with a company that is completely sold on Cisco, you the architect has to convince everyone at your company that from stage 1 to the last stage, all equipment is Cisco.

How many people on the board are going to go with that????

You have to convince that whatever equipment you need, Cisco can do it better and more economical. Is that true? Can it be true?

Are you the architect, (CCAr), who is hired by ACME company, looking out for the best interest of the company (ACME) or Cisco?

I was at a recent interview just last week actually where they told me that most of their customers use Sonicwall equipment with some Juniper and a few sprinkles of Cisco.

This didn't bode well for me at all who was looking to provide some Cisco consultant work.

I could be completely misinterpreting the CCAr and totally looking foolish. But to me it seems like Cisco wants a certification that will encapsulate the engineer, the sales guy, and designer all in one.

I agree with you 100%. It's my view that a true architect must possess the ability to be iconoclastic. Perhaps the true intention of this cert is for in-house recognition?

Many years ago Cisco dabbled at a "CCIE Design" and it went nowhere for just the reason people have mentioned? Here is a quote from Cisco at that time:

"We have come to the conclusion that trying to evaluate a candidate's design skills in an implementation lab does not make sense and customer feedback that we have received supports this conclusion," the company said on its Web site. "Although there may be other ways to assess design skills, we feel that the CCIE program is not the place for such an exam. Our decision is to retire the CCIE Design track."

stuh84

The CCDE seems popular enough though.

bubble2005

Will any of you all attempt the CCAr in the future?

stuh84

I doubt I will. The CCIE is what I'm aiming for, because it is more aligned with what I want to do career wise. In terms of the design side, I don't particularly want to have to study THAT deeply something I'm not entirely interested in.

I don't doubt knowing that much about design is a great skill, but I'd rather be on the tech side than the design side, so it's more in line with career objectives to maybe get something like the CCDA and the CCDP than all the way up to that level.

notgoing2fail

EMcCaleb wrote: »

I agree with you 100%. It's my view that a true architect must possess the ability to be iconoclastic. Perhaps the true intention of this cert is for in-house recognition?

Many years ago Cisco dabbled at a "CCIE Design" and it went nowhere for just the reason people have mentioned? Here is a quote from Cisco at that time:

"We have come to the conclusion that trying to evaluate a candidate's design skills in an implementation lab does not make sense and customer feedback that we have received supports this conclusion," the company said on its Web site. "Although there may be other ways to assess design skills, we feel that the CCIE program is not the place for such an exam. Our decision is to retire the CCIE Design track."

ha! Look at that! Plus these two CCAr's are going to have to sell this program now, prove that it is worthy for any of us to chase......

I'm personally not going to just after this cert just becuase it's Cisco....

bubble2005 wrote: »

Will any of you all attempt the CCAr in the future?

I'm interested in CCDA and CCDP, just to get an overall good solid understanding of design. But I think the buck stops at CCDP...

stuh84 wrote: »

I doubt I will. The CCIE is what I'm aiming for, because it is more aligned with what I want to do career wise. In terms of the design side, I don't particularly want to have to study THAT deeply something I'm not entirely interested in.

Agreed. It will be interesting to see who takes Cisco up on this offer and what kind of exam courses there will be. To me, the CCIE is where it ends, for them to come out of nowhere and create CCAr and put it higher than CCIE annoys me...

ccie1yr

bubble2005 wrote: »

Will any of you all attempt the CCAr in the future?

Quite an interesting discussion, I personally think to be a network arch you need quite good mix of technologies and vendor equipment. I have personally seen and worked on products ranging from CISCO, Juniper, Nortel and SonicFirewall. Now a days, most of the companies prefer to have multi-vendor equipments as they provide good level of security.

I would prefer to have CCIE and JNCIE as they seems to have better prospects

bubble2005

ccie1yr wrote: »

Quite an interesting discussion, I personally think to be a network arch you need quite good mix of technologies and vendor equipment. I have personally seen and worked on products ranging from CISCO, Juniper, Nortel and SonicFirewall. Now a days, most of the companies prefer to have multi-vendor equipments as they provide good level of security.

I would prefer to have CCIE and JNCIE as they seems to have better prospects

Well who ever goes to Cisco Live, ensure that an update is given on this certification, so that the Tech.Ex community can know more about this credential. Thanks

laidbackfreak

Dont know what all the fuss is about, if it wasnt for the price tag I'd take it tomorrow. It looks like a walk in the park.......




And then I woke up lol

pitviper

I heard that when you pass Cisco tattoos a barcode on the back of your neck (with the Cisco logo below it of course)

laidbackfreak

pitviper wrote: »

I heard that when you pass Cisco tattoos a barcode on the back of your neck (with the Cisco logo below it of course)

nah you got that wrong, have you not see the number format issued? it's in the style of an IPV6 address much more unique

mikej412

bubble2005 wrote: »

Well who ever goes to Cisco Live

I don't see anything listed in the 2010-2011 session agenda about it.... but I haven't checked the birds of a feather things and other more social sessions.

ITVince

Wait there are only 2 CCar's in the world? Wow.....

stuh84

ITVince wrote: »

Wait there are only 2 CCar's in the world? Wow.....

The qualification has scarcely been around 6 months, so its to be expected

ITVince

Well I have my A+ so I should go for the CCar next and become #3! LOL JK! I beleive I have much more ventures and work to do LOL!

mikej412

ITVince wrote: »

Wait there are only 2 CCar's in the world? Wow.....

Considering their years of experience, I'd be impressed if the program hits 1000 CCArs by it's 10 year mark (assuming that certification program & Cisco lasts that long ).

chmorin

ITVince wrote: »

Well I have my A+ so I should go for the CCar next and become #3!

Yeah don't rush the studying, make sure you study for a full week before attempting the exam

DevilWAH

In years to come may be.

I intend to carry on work through the CISCO certs 3 or 4 exams a year ish.

of in 5-6 years time I have my CCIE or 2 and the CCAr looks with in reach I think I might go for it. But for me its not about getting the certs, its about learning the stuff.

When I read about the CCAr, it was a board rather then an exam that you had to be invited to attend. and once passed you would also sit in on the board for new canditates. This is not an exam with you can just applie for and take. CISCO are going to vet you first before you even get near the board.

It seems to me its more a way for CISCO to get the top experts in CISCO feeding info back to them.

One day maybe I will add it to my list but not something that I feel I have to have to succeed in this field.

notgoing2fail

DevilWAH wrote: »

One day maybe I will add it to my list but not something that I feel I have to have to succeed in this field.

This seems like one of those certs where I want to see other people do it first, outside of Cisco. This could very well be a cert that disappears in 3-4 years.

CCIE to me is the top dog. Not CCAr. Sorry Cisco. When you've been pumping CCIE for YEARS now, I just have a hard time seeing CCAr come out of nowhere and suddenly be higher than CCIE.

I do love the board room though, you can't brain **** that! LOL....

laidbackfreak

Interview with the first two guys :-

YouTube - Meet the First Two Cisco Certified Architects Part 1.mov

kahn

thanks laidbackfreak,
here are the rest of the parts of the interview with two geniuses with CCAr label.

Part 2

Part 3

Congrats to both of them.
Great work.

Nuul

notgoing2fail wrote: »

This could very well be a cert that disappears in 3-4 years. CCIE to me is the top dog. Not CCAr.

Exactly. I don't see the CCAr program sticking around very long unless they make some big changes to it. I literally laughed out loud when I found out you had to be a CCDE to take it. Good job Cisco, piss of your disciples (CCIEs) by telling them they aren't allowed at the party. I have zero interest in taking this myself; after I finish my CCIE I'm more likely to start working towards my doctorate than I am to take up the CCAr.

notgoing2fail

Nuul wrote: »

Exactly. I don't see the CCAr program sticking around very long unless they make some big changes to it. I literally laughed out loud when I found out you had to be a CCDE to take it. Good job Cisco, piss of your disciples (CCIEs) by telling them they aren't allowed at the party. I have zero interest in taking this myself; after I finish my CCIE I'm more likely to start working towards my doctorate than I am to take up the CCAr.

I just don't see what advantages the CCAr offers. A very experienced CCNP could make over $100K if they know what they are talking about as well as having some side certs like CCNP voice or wireless.

At the CCIE level, you could probably command $120+ and let's face it, most people get CCIE not for the cash, but as a personal accomplishment.

I am very much interested in CCDA/CCDP but the buck stops there for me. I don't think I'm even interested in CCDE....

Brain_Power

What is your opinion of the current state of CCAr program?