CCNA: The Lab

SephStorm

I know there are a few threads on this topic already, I am hoping to make a comprehensive thread that can answer some questions that may come up, for my own benefit of course.

Well, I am headed overseas soon, and I am determined to knock out my CCNA over the next year. CCNA Security is in there too, but we'll get there later.

So first up is the learning requirements.

I can see that the Odom books are suggested, and I agree. I have the ICND1 book, I still need the second.

CCNA Official Exam Certification Library (CCNA Exam 640-802), 3rd Edition

In addition, I will be using videos from CBT Nuggets and Testout Labsim, hopefully.

Hardware.

I am hoping to purchase this kit from CiscoKits:
Dual 2501 16/16 Router & dual 2924 Switch CCNA Kit
The 2501's are recommended in our own lab thread here: http://www.techexams.net/technotes/ccna/lab_hardware.shtml The suggested switch is a 2950, but I assume a 2924 is acceptable. I believe two switches are needed to practice trunking other things I may not be aware of. Are two switches suggested or is one sufficient?

A question at this point comes to memory requirements. CK sells 8mb kits and 16mb kits. My understanding that besides the obvious performance benefits, the increase in RAM allows for use of features such as SDM. What is the required hardware for SDM, and do the 16mb models have any more features?

Perhaps unnecessary, but I do want to bring up this topic because it has been brought up in the past, racks.

For storing your Cisco (and other) devices, it is traditional to store them in racks. The only company I have seen represented here is Skeletek, offered by Dantrak Net  - New and Used Networking Equipment and Peripherals. Skeletek Racks and Accessories. My question here would be what model is suggested for CCNA builds. I assume the B model is smaller, more appropriate for a home setup. I assume that the naming convention is 8U=8 units(devices) a 8U rack will support 8 devices.

I think that is all of the questions I have at the moment, does anyone have anything else to add? Or answers?

SephStorm

Guess i'm up first lol.

After a little bit more research, I can at least partially answer the RAM question, although I would like clarification/confirmation. The 2501 will not support SDM with either 8 or 16mb. The difference is that apparently the 16mb models support IPv6. I do not know how much IPv6 is on the CCNA exams, truthfully I am hoping not much. So would it be safe to knock off a few bucks on the hardware and go with the Dual 8's? Dual 2501 8/8 Router & Dual 2924 Switch CCNA Kit

I am also seeing a suggestion of a 100mb router to practice something called inter-vlan routing. (yes the suggestion is from CK) Is this a critical skill?

I am also seeing that although CK sells the 2924 with their kits, as our TechLab suggests, the 2950 should be used as the 2924 does not support the switchport and global vlan commands. I am not sure if I am familiar with the global vlan command, but I am familiar with the switchport commands, It would seem as if I could either use one lower model or eliminate switches from my lab at this point. Thoughts?

alan2308

SephStorm wrote: »

I know there are a few threads on this topic already, I am hoping to make a comprehensive thread that can answer some questions that may come up, for my own benefit of course.

Well, I am headed overseas soon, and I am determined to knock out my CCNA over the next year. CCNA Security is in there too, but we'll get there later.

So first up is the learning requirements.

I can see that the Odom books are suggested, and I agree. I have the ICND1 book, I still need the second.

CCNA Official Exam Certification Library (CCNA Exam 640-802), 3rd Edition

That's the library, but you should be able to pick up the ICND2 book separately if you already have the first. No need to buy ICND1 again.

SephStorm wrote: »

In addition, I will be using videos from CBT Nuggets and Testout Labsim, hopefully.

Hardware.

I am hoping to purchase this kit from CiscoKits:
Dual 2501 16/16 Router & dual 2924 Switch CCNA Kit
The 2501's are recommended in our own lab thread here: http://www.techexams.net/technotes/ccna/lab_hardware.shtml The suggested switch is a 2950, but I assume a 2924 is acceptable. I believe two switches are needed to practice trunking other things I may not be aware of. Are two switches suggested or is one sufficient?

The 2501 routers and 2900XL switches will do a lot of what you need to learn for the CCNA, but they won't do it all. And for the price of that setup from CiscoKits, you can probably put together a lab that will do pretty much everything you need for the CCNA and still be useful as the start of a CCNP lab. The 2500's and 2900XL's are better suited as a third router or switch, not your primary routers and switches.

SephStorm wrote: »

A question at this point comes to memory requirements. CK sells 8mb kits and 16mb kits. My understanding that besides the obvious performance benefits, the increase in RAM allows for use of features such as SDM. What is the required hardware for SDM, and do the 16mb models have any more features?

There's a list of SDM supported routers here.

SephStorm wrote: »

Perhaps unnecessary, but I do want to bring up this topic because it has been brought up in the past, racks.

For storing your Cisco (and other) devices, it is traditional to store them in racks. The only company I have seen represented here is Skeletek, offered by Dantrak Net *- New and Used Networking Equipment and Peripherals. Skeletek Racks and Accessories. My question here would be what model is suggested for CCNA builds. I assume the B model is smaller, more appropriate for a home setup. I assume that the naming convention is 8U=8 units(devices) a 8U rack will support 8 devices.

I think that is all of the questions I have at the moment, does anyone have anything else to add? Or answers?

Not everything is 1U. Some devices (such as the 3640) are 2U in height, so an 8U rack will only hold 4 of those. Some are even bigger than that, so it depends on what you have.

Where do you plan to go with your lab? If you're not going any further than the CCNA and CCNA Security, then an 8U should be sufficient. If you think you'll be going beyond those two certs, or you just have the collecting bug that a lot of us here have, then you might want to consider a larger rack now to accommodate where you're going in the future.

SephStorm

lol, yes, I will buy the ICND2 book separately, the link was for anyone else looking in the future.

The 2501 routers and 2900XL switches will do a lot of what you need to learn for the CCNA, but they won't do it all. And for the price of that setup from CiscoKits, you can probably put together a lab that will do pretty much everything you need for the CCNA and still be useful as the start of a CCNP lab. The 2500's and 2900XL's are better suited as a third router or switch, not your primary routers and switches.

What do you suggest? I want to get everything quickly, and I want to ensure I get everything, i.e the transceivers for the routers, DCE/DTE cables, ect. Buying on ebay can be cheaper, but I may end up paying more in the long run. However, if this is suggested, then I will reconsider, I would simply need a comprehensive list of everything I needed.

There's a list of SDM supported routers here.

Thanks, how critical is SDM to the CCNA exams?

here do you plan to go with your lab? If you're not going any further than the CCNA and CCNA Security, then an 8U should be sufficient. If you think you'll be going beyond those two certs, or you just have the collecting bug that a lot of us here have, then you might want to consider a larger rack now to accommodate where you're going in the future.

I would love to do CCSP after CCNA Security, I really don't know what the differences are, but it can only help me. One thing I do have to consider, this setup isn't going in my house, I'll be living in a barracks room for the next year, I don't know what kind of space i'll have, or how inclined my roomate will be to the sound of router fans serenading him to sleep... Of course after the year is up, I have to ship everything back...

Kaminsky

Personally I think you are paying way over the odds for that kit and to compound matters, it is old kit, with old commands, that you will not be able to use if you want to progress further than the CCNA. You could get the same kit seperately off ebay a lot cheaper than you are paying to be honest. People are constantly trying to off load those to any sucker that comes along.

Or you could read some of the equipment threads and get a few items that you can use further. The 1721, even without a memory upgrade and 12.4T, far outshines those 25s. Also, it's small and fairly portable if you are taking it abroad with you. And they are cheap as chips.

You should also be looking toward an 2950T switch (the "T" is important) rather than the 24s for the commands and trunking modes they allow. Personally, 3 routers and a pair of switches and you will be cooking on gas. You can do it with less obviously, but this will let you play with bigger topologies and play about and learn more hands on.

Interfaces; Get a pair of WIC-1Ts and a db60-db60 back to back dce/dte for wan links. Get a pair of dirt cheap WS-G5483 1000Base-T gbics for the switches for a trunk. You could also use 1000base-sx 850nm laser gbics and a chunk of sc-sc multimode if you want a fibre trunk rather than a copper one (looks flashier) which is just as cheap as the g5483 practically.

You'll also need to get hold of a couple of straight through and cross-over ethernet cables for different topologies. Get a few extra and cut one end off to make some loopbacks which you can put into base-t interfaces so that they show as up and are pingable.

That lot will pretty much see you through the ccna and form the basis of anything you want to study afterward so you won't have to throw it all away afterward like you will have to with your intended purchase. It will probably cost you less than what you were going to buy as well if you get some good deals. Now is a very good time to get good deals off ebay too with the recession, there is lots of kit out there but not a lot of people buying so it is definately a buyers market.

phoeneous

I suggest you look at the 1721 router instead. As Kam mentioned, it supports 12.4T and arent really that expensive. The 1760 doesnt need a power brick and is rack mountable. And if you get 2950 for a switch, make sure it is ws-2950c or ws-2950t because of EI. The ws-2950 uses SI which has less features.

JSK

Don't forget the simulators/emulators. They are a great lab option as well. I personally still recommend a real lab. However it sounds like a sim might not be a bad idea given your situation.

alan2308

phoeneous wrote: »

I suggest you look at the 1721 router instead. As Kam mentioned, it supports 12.4T and arent really that expensive. The 1760 doesnt need a power brick and is rack mountable. And if you get 2950 for a switch, make sure it is ws-2950c or ws-2950t because of EI. The ws-2950 uses SI which has less features.

I don't know what the difference is price-wise between the EI and the SI models, but if its a big difference you might want to save the money and just go with the SI. According to this, there is little or no difference between the two today as far as features.

phoeneous

alan2308 wrote: »

I don't know what the difference is price-wise between the EI and the SI models, but if its a big difference you might want to save the money and just go with the SI. According to this, there is little or no difference between the two today as far as features.

Q. What is the difference between the Cisco Standard Image software and Cisco Enhanced Image software?
A. These two software image versions support different degrees of capability. The version of software depends solely on the model of switch selected, with no upgrade capabilities.

The Cisco Standard Image software is embedded in Cisco Catalyst 2950 12, Catalyst 2950 24, Catalyst 2950SX 24, Catalyst 2950T 48 SI, and Catalyst 2950SX 48 SI Switches and supports basic Cisco IOS Software functions, Fast Ethernet connectivity, and community management.

The Cisco Enhanced Image software is embedded in Cisco Catalyst 2950C 24, Catalyst 2950G 12 EI, Catalyst 2950G 24 EI, Catalyst 2950G 48 EI, and Catalyst 2950T 24 Switches and supports advanced intelligent services, gigabit connectivity, and a richer set of features. These features include Spanning Tree Protocol enhancements for high availability, access control parameters (ACPs) for enhanced network security, and differentiated services code point (DCSP) and rate limiting for advanced QoS.

Cisco Catalyst 2950 Series Switches with Cisco Standard Image and Enhanced Image [Cisco Catalyst 2950 Series Switches] - Cisco Systems

alan2308

That was true in the past. However today its not really the case.

Wendell Odom wrote:

Current state: When researching 2950 IOS features in the past, I have personally seen cases in which the Cisco feature navigator claimed the SI image didn’t support a feature, but SI image switches actually did support the feature. In 2010, my latest search of the Feature Navigator implies that the SI and EI feature support has merged.

Switch: 2950 Series

SephStorm

Thanks guys for the help so far.

Well I am looking at the 1721 right now and I could probably get 3 for under a hundred bucks, and it includes a power cable.

Cisco 1721 Router (96MB of Ram/16MB Flash) CISCO1721-AC - eBay (item 160455837697 end time Aug-12-10 09:02:45 PDT)

Looking at the switch, my first search for the 2950T brings nothing under $100, but it is less than the $150 from CK.... How many would be needed? Is it possible to eliminate this item and do any switching labs in Packet Tracer? At least for CCNA? From what I understand, they are needed for device elections, vlan configurations, STP, and trunking, all of which I have done in PT(excluding STP).

I found the WIC-1T card unsure of how many are available.
Cisco WIC-1T Serial WAN Interface Card Module 1-Port - eBay (item 140435165215 end time Aug-31-10 19:42:58 PDT)

DCE/DTE cable: http://cgi.ebay.com/100-NEW-CAB-6060-Back-Back-DTE-DCE-WIC-1T-Cable-/320519467222
I assume I need 2 of these to connect back to back.

So I am looking at:

3 1721 Routers $84.51
2 2950T Switches $209.96 (ouch)
2 WIC-1T Cards $49.58
2 DB 6060 cables $17.4

Price w/o switches is 151.49. Thoughts?

Kaminsky

Actually, thinking about it, I agree with JSK. As much as I hate to say it, if your going overseas in service, you would be better off spending all that money whacking up your pc memory and processor and going the simulator route through the initial stages. That way you could have all that hardware in one tidy little laptop.

Getting hold of the ios images might be a problem but that all depends on how much time until you have to ship out and how much time you can hunt around looking for 12.4 images.

I realise that hasn't helped your prediciment.... At least the prices are getting lower

SephStorm

Nope, you got me hooked now hmm.

i do like the thought of getting the 1721's. looking at Mr. Odom's CCNA build, he goes with the 1721's and the 2950's as well.

After a little research, I found a WS-C2950 for $50. Cisco Catalyst 2950 WS-C2950-12 12 Port Switch - eBay (item 390225011085 end time Sep-07-10 10:31:51 PDT) Assuming the seller has another one, I could do 2 for $100.

On the WIC Cards, Odom suggests WIC-2T vs WIC-1T. What is the difference? I used 2t's in my class, and we used them in PT as well.

JSK

SephStorm wrote: »

On the WIC Cards, Odom suggests WIC-2T vs WIC-1T. What is the difference? I used 2t's in my class, and we used them in PT as well.

WIC-2T cards have 2 serial interfaces. It also uses the new smart serial cable rather than the old DB60. They are more expensive. (about $50 each on eBay)

alan2308

SephStorm wrote: »

Nope, you got me hooked now hmm.

i do like the thought of getting the 1721's. looking at Mr. Odom's CCNA build, he goes with the 1721's and the 2950's as well.

After a little research, I found a WS-C2950 for $50. Cisco Catalyst 2950 WS-C2950-12 12 Port Switch - eBay (item 390225011085 end time Sep-07-10 10:31:51 PDT) Assuming the seller has another one, I could do 2 for $100.

On the WIC Cards, Odom suggests WIC-2T vs WIC-1T. What is the difference? I used 2t's in my class, and we used them in PT as well.

The WIC-1t has one port, the WIC-2t has two ports and they're physically different ports and use different cables. Other than that, there's no difference.

Kaminsky

SephStorm wrote: »

Nope, you got me hooked now hmm.

Another convert ....... mwuahahahaha !

WIC-2t fits into the same interface slot as a WIC-1T but has two serial ports rather than 1. They are obviously slightly more expensive and more sought after. They don't have db-60 interfaces but Smart-Serial connectors. Basically, three routers fitted with WIC-2Ts and your have a WAN triangle you can route around. If you mix and match WIC-1T / WIC-2T you will need db60-SS back to back dce/dte serial X.21 cables as well.

Another router (26*1XM (avoid non-XM 26's) or a 3725 (rediculously cheap for what they are)) and a 4 or 8 AS NM module and you have a Frame Relay network with an FR switch you can be routing around as well.

Be carfull of building a home lab from ebay... It is incredibly addictive.

alan2308

Kaminsky wrote: »

Be carfull of building a home lab from ebay... It is incredibly addictive.

Truer words have never been spoken. I don't need 8 routers, but when I keep finding them for $15 or less.....

SephStorm

alright, so how does the proposed setup sound for at least CCNA-CCNA Security?

3 1721 Routers $84.51
2 C2950 Switches $100
2 WIC-1T Cards $49.58
2 DB 6060 cables $17.4

Truer words have never been spoken. I don't need 8 routers, but when I keep finding them for $15 or less

*rolling*

JSK

With that setup you wouldn't need 2 serial cables unless you plan to get another pair of WIC-1T cards to connect the 3rd router.

SephStorm

and I assume I need that for frame relay. Ouch.

3 1721 Routers $84.51
2 C2950 Switches $100
4 WIC-1T Cards $99.16
2 DB 6060 cables $17.4

JSK

SephStorm wrote: »

and I assume I need that for frame relay. Ouch.

Not necessarily. You could get a pair of WIC-1DSU-T1 cards and a T1 crossover cable. All 3 pieces on eBay would probably cost you $30-40 or less if you can score a good deal.

Zartanasaurus

Kaminsky wrote: »

Be carfull of building a home lab from ebay... It is incredibly addictive.

Indeed. Just got done reading my daily saved searches email, even though my lab is complete.

phoeneous

alan2308 wrote: »

That was true in the past. However today its not really the case.


Switch: 2950 Series

Interesting. He also goes on to say:

As such, it is ambiguous to me as to what features truly exist when the most recent versions of 2950 software are loaded into a switch originally intended as an SI switch versus an EI switch.

I'd play it safe and get the EI. You can get one with a 3yr warranty for $75.

liveify

JSK wrote: »

Not necessarily. You could get a pair of WIC-1DSU-T1 cards and a T1 crossover cable. All 3 pieces on eBay would probably cost you $30-40 or less if you can score a good deal.

+1
I did this and saved tons.. Got four cards for around 40.. And made crossover cables

SephStorm

at this point that is too confusing for me, I was unaware of a specific cable for T1.
EDIT: I think Im going to say * it. I just got a 2950 for $45, i'll work on getting a few more. First, i'll work on the 1721's. I really just want to understand these memory issues.

Zartanasaurus

SephStorm wrote: »

at this point that is too confusing for me, I was unaware of a specific cable for T1.
EDIT: I think Im going to say * it. I just got a 2950 for $45, i'll work on getting a few more. First, i'll work on the 1721's. I really just want to understand these memory issues.

T1 crossover cables look just like regular crossover cables. You can buy them on ebay for a couple of bucks. If I had to do it all over again, I might have gone the multiple WIC-1DSU-T1 route over the NM-8A/s for the frame relay router considering the cost of WIC-1Ts and WIC-2Ts vs the 1DSUs. Plus it seems like a lot of ebay routers come with a 1DSU these days.

SephStorm

So a quick update. I was able to get a 2950 Switch off ebay. Horrible shipping experience and its missing all of the screws on its side, but it works. Oh, and it was taken from an AAFES facility, which is disturbing, but anyway...

I also have two 1721's with WIC-1T's on the way. So hopefully I will at least have the devices before I go. Then I will just need the cables for the routers.

phoeneous

SephStorm wrote: »

So a quick update. I was able to get a 2950 Switch off ebay. Horrible shipping experience and its missing all of the screws on its side, but it works. Oh, and it was taken from an AAFES facility, which is disturbing, but anyway...

I also have two 1721's with WIC-1T's on the way. So hopefully I will at least have the devices before I go. Then I will just need the cables for the routers.

You should just get WIC-1DSU-T1's instead of the WIC-1T's.

SephStorm

the device already has the 1T cards.

SephStorm

So a heads up for anyone buying products off of ebay, do your research. Most sellers have no experience with cisco, and you will not have all the info you need to determine if the device you want to buy is the one you need for your studies.

It appears in most cases the device you want needs to run an enhanced image. Unfortunately this is not immediately obvious on many listings. look at the listing and try to put as much info as you can find here: Cisco Feature Navigator - Cisco Systems - the platform and product number options are what I like. Another tool is the Cisco Service Finder. It is actually used to find the Technical Services available for your Cisco hardware, OS software, and application software products, but it tells you the different models of you're device, which can come in handy if you need to find out that the model you want to buy doesn't support an IOS version, i.e the 12 port 2950 w/o Gb ports does not support EI images.

I will update this thread as long as I am able with tips from my experiences.