Study says employers value MCSE more than four-year degree

Study says employers value MCSE more than four-year degree

something I found on the web

what do all of you guys/girls think?

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Bl8ckr0uter

ipconfig.all wrote: »

Study says employers value MCSE more than four-year degree

something I found on the web

what do all of you guys/girls think?

Bull. Did you see this article was from 2001. I am not sure what the job market was like then (I was in middle school) but I can tell you my opinion of the matter is that a 4 year college degree > MCSE usually but that does not mean person with degree > person with MCSE/MCITP because Experience > Degree and Certifications.

There was probably less MCSEs (meaning less dumped MCSEs) at the time of this article.

Hyper-Me

I dont think a 4 year degree is held in any higher esteem now than it was 9 years ago. What i do think is that with the market the way its been, employers know they can demand the world and have plenty of applicants to apply because so many people are without work.

I havn't ever actually met that many dumped MCSEs. Most of the poeple I have met that are posers have been too lazy to even **** the tests, and rather pretend to have the mindset that "certs are not correlative to knowledge or experience"

eansdad

From what I've seen with some of the better higher paying jobs a 4 year degree is becoming the norm. Some HR people have figured out that anyone can take a brain dumping boot camp and get a cert but a 4 year degree means commitment to learning and sometimes an internship. Most jobs will also flip flop years of experience and college but not certs.

Basically if you want to break into IT (help desk, desktop support, jr. level admin) certs will do the job but if your looking to go to the top then a 4 year degree you'll need.

Bl8ckr0uter

Hyper-Me wrote: »

I dont think a 4 year degree is held in any higher esteem now than it was 9 years ago. What i do think is that with the market the way its been, employers know they can demand the world and have plenty of applicants to apply because so many people are without work.

I can only talk about how long I have been in the job market and since I have been here, I have seen more jobs (not just IT jobs) requiring a BA or BS degrees.

Hyper-Me wrote: »

I havn't ever actually met that many dumped MCSEs. Most of the poeple I have met that are posers have been too lazy to even **** the tests, and rather pretend to have the mindset that "certs are not correlative to knowledge or experience"

I've met a few. One of them was in the process of dumping the CCNA as well. I am not sure if he finished it but I do know that he said he "liked active directory" but hated "security". He also said he did the "MCSE because Microsoft is a server, he wanted the CCNA because Cisco is a network and he was going to an Oracle cert because Oracle is a database"

exampasser

knwminus wrote: »

I've met a few. One of them was in the process of dumping the CCNA as well. I am not sure if he finished it but I do know that he said he "liked active directory" but hated "security". He also said he did the "MCSE because Microsoft is a server, he wanted the CCNA because Cisco is a network and he was going to an Oracle cert because Oracle is a database"

ROFL! Sounds like he will be a future unionized government employee . . .

SephStorm

knwminus wrote: »

I've met a few. One of them was in the process of dumping the CCNA as well. I am not sure if he finished it but I do know that he said he "liked active directory" but hated "security". He also said he did the "MCSE because Microsoft is a server, he wanted the CCNA because Cisco is a network and he was going to an Oracle cert because Oracle is a database"

Such a waste...

ajs1976

From the bottom of the article: Therefore, my prescription is simple. Build your career using three elements. Earn a solid, four-year degree. Prove your systems expertise with an MCSE or CCNA as time permits. Then test your mettle by gaining hands-on, real-world experience. You won’t be sorry.

I have been an MCSE since September 2000. There were a lot of MCSEs at the time the article was written, a number of which were career changers, so they may have had a degree, but it might not have been in a technical field. While having an MCSE could get you a high paying job in the late 90s, by 2001 HR and others were starting to see a lot of Paper tigers (people with little or know practical experience, didn't mean they dumped the exams) and dumpers, so they were starting to look for so many years of work experience.

networker050184

Which is valued more depends on the company IMO. If my current employer valued degrees more than certs they wouldn't have hired me.

ipconfig.all

I've met a few. One of them was in the process of dumping the CCNA as well. I am not sure if he finished it but I do know that he said he "liked active directory" but hated "security". He also said he did the "MCSE because Microsoft is a server, he wanted the CCNA because Cisco is a network and he was going to an Oracle cert because Oracle is a database"

HAHAHA funny stuff, I do agree because of people like that the value of certifications has gone down, which is sad, I hope they fail in life in the end.

erpadmin

For what I do, I neither have certs, nor a degree (currently) (A+/Network+ not really needed for my job...

). Just basic experience in Windows servers/SQL Server databases and building an ERP, which I can take to any vertical: (higher ed, government, corporate/financials, health care, any place where an Enterprise Resource Planning system would be used...). The only reason I need a degree, as eansdad said, is so that I can be in a position to dictate how it gets built, instead of building it myself. It would take me another 10-15 years without a degree to gain that, and by that time, I can retire (and most likely will, unless I'm in management...then I might stick around for a while...LOL). But I'm looking to grow my skills, not keep them f'ing stagnant.

In the 90s to very, very early 2000s, if you knew how to turn a computer on, most companies hired you and a degree was not required. It's sad, but true. Between the dot-com bust and 9/11, many of those fake MCSEs making 90k-120k went back to asking me if I wanted fries with that, though some did find work and got some of their cash. Thankfully, I was one of those who survived, save for a 8 month vacation...but my salary has always grown and I never took a paycut.

Today is a much different story; you need a degree, period.

dynamik

erpadmin wrote: »

Today is a much different story; you need a degree, period.

I don't know if I'd take it that far, but what I often hear is that a bachelors is the new high school diploma. It's just expected and requested all over the place.

Having said that, I know several other successful people (Networker, Paul Boz) who have done just fine without a degree. I am very close to having one completed, but I technically don't either. To my knowledge, that has not negatively affected me. I think you're at a disadvantage without a degree, but I don't think that's a hopeless scenario that you can't compensate for with certifications, experience, personality, connections, and a bit of luck.

ipconfig.all

i wish i will get an i.t job really soon i have being rejected alot i feel worthless and depressed.

nel

from my experiance a 4 year degree is becoming the de facto in the UK, although england compress them into 3 years now. From many high end contractors ive came across they have all recommended to go for a masters long term as a 4 year is the new standard due to the amount of graduates being churned out these days.

exampasser

Lol someone got upset at my last comment:

"I am a unionized government employee! I never dumped and could probably school you in most things IT! Spare me!"

Funny though how he prefers to stay anonymous though.

Hyper-Me

dynamik wrote: »

I don't know if I'd take it that far, but what I often hear is that a bachelors is the new high school diploma. It's just expected and requested all over the place.

Having said that, I know several other successful people (Networker, Paul Boz) who have done just fine without a degree. I am very close to having one completed, but I technically don't either. To my knowledge, that has not negatively affected me. I think you're at a disadvantage without a degree, but I don't think that's a hopeless scenario that you can't compensate for with certifications, experience, personality, connections, and a bit of luck.

This.

There are several people just on this forum doing well without a Bachelors. Myself included.

veritas_libertas

nel wrote: »

from my experiance a 4 year degree is becoming the de facto in the UK, although england compress them into 3 years now. From many high end contractors ive came across they have all recommended to go for a masters long term as a 4 year is the new standard due to the amount of graduates being churned out these days.

Interesting, are all of them 3 years in the UK? I wish that would become common on this side of the pond

rogue2shadow

ipconfig.all wrote: »

i wish i will get an i.t job really soon i have being rejected alot i feel worthless and depressed.

Don't stop! Believin'!! I was in your position about 9 months ago and things are just now starting to change a bit for me. It forced me go into an insane study mode and thus far it has helped me get the certs I currently have today (and a new love for reading

).

A 50% (consider or trash) chance at a job is better than a 0% chance (not applying at all). Keep on sending those resumes out, keep on learning and eventually something will come. Iron out a plan for where you want to be 5, 10, 15 years from now and tailor your studies towards that goal. If you have to, try searching for jobs outside your county or even state if its feasable (for me I have DC and VA next to me so its not so bad). Use a home lab to hone your skills. If you are a student and are on the MS side or even need MS software Microsoft Dreamspark (free windows software for students upon validation of email).

https://www.dreamspark.com/default.aspx

Bl8ckr0uter

rogue2shadow wrote: »

Don't stop! Believin'!!

Go listen to some Journey, grab a shirt and tie and hit the streets looking for a gig. Be bold (and daring).

msteinhilber

Sure, I have a bachelor's degree - but if I could do it over again I'm not so sure if I would or not. Here's my whole complaint with the "system" if you will. We have it almost ingrained in our heads throughout school, in my case starting in the 6th grade, that if you want to be successful you better have a college degree. More and more people are going to school right out of high school, and at the other end of the spectrum you have online and brick and mortar schools geared towards working adults drilling into their heads to go back to school for a career change with the promise of a great job and great wage. Student loans are incredibly easy for most to get IMO, and a great deal of students are financing 100% of their education not thinking long term and have the short term promise of a great job and wage in mind.

The end result we have now is a society where college degree's are reaching the point in many areas that it almost feels like a requirement to be successful. But the problem is the costs of an education are rising rapidly and the wages associated with your crispy new diploma are falling if you are even fortunate enough to locate a job. People are leaving school and trying to enter the job market and often times are carrying a fairly heavy debt load for being so young that will likely follow them for a good number of years because society, the education system, the television, and the Internet all tell them you'll make it big with a degree.

Perhaps student loan debt is the next housing bubble?

Bl8ckr0uter

I have never gone to a 4 year school and when I look at the cost of a BS my first thought is this is total BS. I will probably go to a school that has an community college alliance (like Franklin University for my Ohio people) and try to save money that way. Plus I can do the whole degree online.

erpadmin

exampasser wrote: »

Lol someone got upset at my last comment:

"I am a unionized government employee! I never dumped and could probably school you in most things IT! Spare me!"

Funny though how he prefers to stay anonymous though.

I'll keep it real, it was definitely me! I totally found your generalization of government workers who happen to be unionized very uncalled for. Some of us do work...

ssampier

Like most people I wouldn't say the MCSE subs for a degree. Since the recession I have seen job postings that want more and more experience, degrees, and certs. You have to take such postings with a grain of salt, though.

rogue2shadow wrote: »

Don't stop! Believin'!! I was in your position about 9 months ago and things are just now starting to change a bit for me. It forced me go into an insane study mode and thus far it has helped me get the certs I currently have today (and a new love for reading ).

Working hard to get my fill
Everybody wants a thrill
Payin' anything to roll the dice,
Just one more time.
Some will win, some will lose,
Some are born to sing the blues.

RobertKaucher

msteinhilber wrote: »

Perhaps student loan debt is the next housing bubble?

They had an interesting discussion about this on NPR the other day. Focused mainly on for profit educations. Is There A For-Profit Education Bubble? : NPR

veritas_libertas

erpadmin wrote: »

I'll keep it real, it was definitely me! I totally found your generalization of government workers who happen to be unionized very uncalled for. Some of us do work...

Yes, but you said some, LOL!

it_consultant

I have found it easier to get a job without a degree lately than it was before the 'bubble' busted. I can't explain why, I have a theory though. Have you noticed the number of people with Bachelor's degrees who are also morons? Employers have noticed also.

nel

veritas_libertas wrote: »

Interesting, are all of them 3 years in the UK? I wish that would become common on this side of the pond

3 years is common for a Bsc Hons degree in england yes - but not the UK as a whole. Scotland is typically 4 years. Im not sure about the other countries which make up the union. Theres even talk of further compression :S God only knows how.

erpadmin

veritas_libertas wrote: »

Yes, but you said some, LOL!

Listen, there are morons at every job. The reasons why government workers get such a bad rep is because of the economy, among other reasons. I am sure you have lazy, moronic people where you work, and I'm sure they exist where exampasser works or will work.

But having us all generalized like that is just wrong. I could think of more than a bunch of generalizations of Southerners, for example. Many of those have been dispelled.

(and yes, I said many).

mikej412

ipconfig.all wrote: »

what do all of you guys/girls think?

I think if you search long enough you'll find an old study that shows how Novell 3.11 is superior to anything Microsoft can come up with and that learning Novell and the IPX/SPX protocols is a smart career move since the entire world will be running Novell and will standardize on IPX/SPX by 1999.

Dig some more and you'll find that there's no way you'd ever need more than 16K of RAM.

veritas_libertas

erpadmin wrote: »

Listen, there are morons at every job. The reasons why government workers get such a bad rep is because of the economy, among other reasons. I am sure you have lazy, moronic people where you work, and I'm sure they exist where exampasser works or will work.

Hey now! I was only jabbing a little. I work for a government contractor so I can tease only so much. I have never worked for a government agency so I have no idea what your work enviroment is even like. I just thought it was funny that you used the word some in your comeback.

erpadmin

veritas_libertas wrote: »

Hey now! I was only jabbing a little. I work for a government contractor so I can tease only so much. I have never worked for a government agency so I have no idea what your work enviroment is even like. I just thought it was funny that you used the word some in your comeback.

No man, in my response to you, I wasn't trying to "come at you" (certainly not in how I did to EP). I was only explaining that every organization is going to have lazy, moronic people who skate by. Of course some of those people exist in government, as they they do elsewhere. But those people who encompass the "some" make "all" of us look like the "some" but I'd be lying to you if I told you all of us were harding working individuals.....there are "some" who will invalidate that statement.

We are a 24x7 shop. I have to be on call for whatever happens, and I will get called on a weekend. If I can not fix something via VPN, I'm expected to go the office. Even though I'm unionized, there is only so much they could if it's found that I "just didn't give a crap." No amount of union dues will save you if you are really a douchebag (in my department at least). I've already seen it happen once. But to be fair, that guy really was an idiot and deserved everything he got!

So, I understand you were teasing....but I just wanted to at least let you know that I was trying to speak in a toned-tone voice.