MotherBoard

Has anyone ever used this one? It seems like it will fit most of my needs for my VMware ESXI server.

Asus P7F-X Server Motherboard - Intel 3420, LGA 1156, Dual Gbit LAN, RAID at TigerDirect.com

Actually a better question is does anyone know of any cheap scsi motherboards so I can make use of these hot swappable drive bays on my case?

Man and while we are at it, a cheap raid controller. Man $200-$700 is out of the question

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Comments

TheShadow

knwminus wrote: »

Actually a better question is does anyone know of any cheap scsi motherboards so I can make use of these hot swappable drive bays on my case?

Man and while we are at it, a cheap raid controller. Man $200-$700 is out of the question

so you want to do suzzy huh. How about PCI with 16MB Cache battery backed new for 5 bucks. Prime Electronics picked up IBM's stock of AMI MegaRAID Express 466 cards with onboard intel 960 I/O processor. It is the same thing that Dell calls a perc controller. AMI quit the business or sold it as SCSI stopped being the hot ticket when SATA came out. Prime has been selling them off for a year.

I have three of them but I only use them to run tape drives. When you install Dells driver Vista and Win 7 see it as a DELL PERC 2/SC RAID controller Here is the link for the card. They only have 4 left so hurry

http://www.primelec.com/Hard-Drives-Storage/Storage-Controllers/RAID/IBM-AMI-MegaRAID-Express-p2571619.html

Bl8ckr0uter

Do you know if ESXI recognizes them? I think I might pick up 1 or 2 tonight.

Bl8ckr0uter

Ok I have went and go myself terribly confused. I seriously need a server+ book.

So when I was doing my A+ I remember that scsi <> sata. There was a difference in physical medium as well protocols used. I have been doing some searching and what I have seen has lead me to believe that you can run scsi on sata drives (or something like that). Basically what I am trying to accomplish is to build a decent ESX box that I can use for the foreseeable future--for cheap. I thought the best thing for me was to grab a set board with a ton of sata connections (or get some pci cards) and have two or three for the OSes and 4 or 5 for storage. I was told by the other admin here that ESXI doesn't like sata drives and I should use scsi. Now I am pretty confused as far as what I should buy now lol.

The technology I was referencing is serial attached scsi
SCSI - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

tiersten

ESX supports quite a few SATA controllers now. It used to not have many drivers but they changed that a few versions ago.

Generally a SAS controller will let you attach SATA drives but the opposite isn't true. I use a HP SmartArray P400 RAID controller and have SATA drives attached to it. No problems at all under ESX as it is supported by the cciss driver.

If your case has hotswappable bays then you need a controller card that is capable of doing hotswap. Quite a few integrated motherboard chipsets now appear to support it but you'll have to check whether yours does or not.

ssampier

Can I ask the obvious question? Why do you need hotswap on a non production server?

Most servers use SAS, Serial Attached SCSI. Unless you are doing something really cool a standard SATA* drive should work fine for you. It's just the matter of ESX recognizing the drive controller.

* I'd go for the enterprise sata drives for the warranty myself.

Bl8ckr0uter

IBM AMI MegaRAID Express Series 466 With 16 MB Cache

This device says it supports scsi. Is there a way to know if it supports serial scsi or not?

Bl8ckr0uter

ssampier wrote: »

Can I ask the obvious question? Why do you need hotswap on a non production server?

I don't but I have the drives for them so I want to use it lol. </noob> I am leaning towards grabbing a raid controller and filling this thing with a bunch of sata drives until I learn more about server hardware.

tiersten

knwminus wrote: »

IBM AMI MegaRAID Express Series 466 With 16 MB Cache

This device says it supports scsi. Is there a way to know if it supports serial scsi or not?

It would say SAS and it doesn't so no. That won't work. That card is ancient.

SAS connectors look like SATA connectors.

Ahriakin

SCSI is a totally different protocol/interface to SATA, no cross operability. SATA is fine for home use, as are most motherboard integrated RAID solutions (some aren't so hot at RAID 5, Intel's offerings tend to be better in this respect to AMDs chipsets).

Bl8ckr0uter

tiersten wrote: »

It would say SAS and it doesn't so no. That won't work.

SAS drives are $$$. What would you suggest? SATA for now and when I upgrade the motherboard go with SAS drives?

Bl8ckr0uter

Ahriakin wrote: »

SCSI is a totally different protocol/interface to SATA, no cross operability. SATA is fine for home use, as are most motherboard integrated RAID solutions (some aren't so hot at RAID 5, Intel's offerings tend to be better in this respect to AMDs chipsets).

Is this incorrect?

Serial attached SCSI Serial attached SCSI uses a modified Serial ATA data and power cable.

That is what I am thinking. I was just told that Vmware doesn't like SATA drives and I should go with scsi if I can. I didn't think it made a big difference but he is the vcp

Man I'm such a ******* noob. This is one of many parts of my skillset that are particularly weak. Guess I really have some studying to do. This is my first build (from scratch) and I have a very particular purpose for this box (ESX machine). Choosing the parts is a huge task lol. I would really benefit from a Server+ class but there is nothing like that offered. My A+ class was really easy (and I think I have at least A+ knowledge of hardware) but Server hardware technology is something I have never dealt with.

tiersten

You don't need SAS drives for a home lab. Find a supported SATA controller in the ESX hardware compatibility lists and then get some regular SATA drives.

tiersten

knwminus wrote: »

Is this incorrect?

It is a completely different protocol and electrical interface so they're not compatible. If you want SAS then you need a SAS controller.

knwminus wrote: »

That is what I am thinking. I was just told that Vmware doesn't like SATA drives and I should go with scsi if I can. I didn't think it made a big difference but he is the vcp

ESX doesn't care whether it is a SATA or SAS drive. The benefits of SAS are that it is generally a higher RPM, higher IOPS and in theory a better MTBF.

If you're running an ESX cluster in a production environment off a regular SATA drive that you bought down at the local PC store then you should reconsider your options but for a home lab, who cares? At worst it will just be slower.

Bl8ckr0uter

Hmm ok. So I did what I probably should have done before bothering you good people. I went to the HCL for ESXi 4.1 and looked for SAS/SATA raid controllers. I found quite a bit:

VMware Compatibility Guide - Search the VMware Compatibility Guide[]=24&datePosted=-1&partnerId[]=-1&ioTypeId[]=14&manufacturer[]=-1&vid=&did=&svid=&ssid=&rorre=0

Most of them were out of my price range. I started looking at the HP stuff (per your post). Found this:

HP.com - ProLiant Storage - HP Smart Array E200 controller - Overview & Features

I looked on the bay, found some for 80 bucks. Google searches bring up some for 114. Seems like a good deal, compared to 300+. I am wondering why it is so cheap however.

tiersten

The E200 is an entry level controller that has been out for a few years now.

Bl8ckr0uter

tiersten wrote: »

The E200 is an entry level controller that has been out for a few years now.

I like this part:

Flexible
Supports SAS and SATA disk drives

I looked up some reviews. Seems to be all positive. At 86-114, the price is right. I am still trying to figure out if I want to build an i5 machine or i7. I am think i5 and have an upgrade path for later. DDR3 memory is pretty expensive as well. I hope 6gb will be enough to start out.

tiersten

knwminus wrote: »

I like this part:

You might want to also look at what RAID levels it supports :P

Bl8ckr0uter

tiersten wrote: »

You might want to also look at what RAID levels it supports :P

Yea I just looked at that. Now my warm and fuzzy feeling is gone*

. Well the mobo I want to buy from the first port supports raid so now its time to check if ESXi supports the board. I wanted to go with a card because I was also told (by the same guy) it is better to use a card with esxi.

*That's what she said.

Bl8ckr0uter

Well I check ultimate whitebox. The mobo isn't listed. It isn't listed here either:
ESX / ESXi 4.0 Whitebox HCL

Hmmm. I really don't want to risk it but I have a hunch that this board will work. I don't know though.....

tiersten

Look up the individual components of the motherboard. Chipset, HD controller, NIC etc...

Bl8ckr0uter

Looks good from what I am seeing.

erpadmin

knwminus wrote: »

I am still trying to figure out if I want to build an i5 machine or i7. I am think i5 and have an upgrade path for later. DDR3 memory is pretty expensive as well. I hope 6gb will be enough to start out.

For someone as concerned about the loot as you are, I would imagine even an i3 would be fine for your needs. If you are looking at i5 or i7, I would go for the i5, in this respect.

Unless you are going to one day need to turn that into a Production SQL Server that's going to process gigabytes of data, go with the cheaper processor.

Don't worry about memory....what you want is a board that can support, at minimum 16GB maximum (remember, that's your minimum MAXIMUM amount). You can always upgrade memory later.

Also, when you buy memory, make sure your pairs support an upgrade. For example, if my board has 16 GB maximum and I have 4 dimm slots, I want to buy 2x4GB chips. This way I can get 2x4GB chips later and have my maximum. Sites like www.crucial.com is GREAT for getting quick memory specs. (Unfortunately, they hardly EVER have the best price for memory...I usually just use them to get my specs and use that to price them out either via www.pricewatch.com OR google shopping.)

Bl8ckr0uter

Yea you may be right on that. I didn't even think about the i3s. I need to look at the esx hcl and see what they say.

Hmm. This is looking pretty good lol http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115222&cm_re=i3-_-19-115-222-_-Product

I can always upgrade to an i5 or i7 later. The board I am looking at supports 16gb max. ECC memory is $$$ lol. I am a college student can't someone give me a break. I will try to find a 8gb pack for now but if I can find a 16gb for less than 200 I am going for it.

I think I am going to have to go with a two pack of 4gb like this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820139040&cm_re=ddr3_memory-_-20-139-040-_-Product

Oh! Good call on price watch:
http://www.compsource.com/ttechnote.asp?part_no=CMX8GX3M4B1333C9&vid=997&src=PW

ssampier

knwminus wrote: »

SAS drives are $$$. What would you suggest? SATA for now and when I upgrade the motherboard go with SAS drives?

SAS is expensive, but fast.

Depending on your budget you could do a raid 10 with "enterprise class" SATA drive*. I did a RAID 1 + hotspare SATA server like this for almost nothing.

Server components are mostly standard. The real thing you need to know how to restore a drive in a RAID array after a drive failure. It's not hard, it's just the clock is ticking and you usually need this up 5 minutes ago.

erpadmin

knwminus wrote: »

Yea you may be right on that. I didn't even think about the i3s. I need to look at the esx hcl and see what they say.

Hmm. This is looking pretty good lol Newegg.com - Intel Core i3-530 Clarkdale 2.93GHz 4MB L3 Cache LGA 1156 73W Dual-Core Desktop Processor BX80616I3530

I can always upgrade to an i5 or i7 later. The board I am looking at supports 16gb max. ECC memory is $$$ lol. I am a college student can't someone give me a break. I will try to find a 8gb pack for now but if I can find a 16gb for less than 200 I am going for it.

I think I am going to have to go with a two pack of 4gb like this: Newegg.com - Kingston 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM ECC Unbuffered DDR3 1333 Server Memory Model KVR1333D3E9SK2/4G

Oh! Good call on price watch:
Corsair #(CMX8GX3M4B1333C9) - 8GB DDR3 SDRAM Memory Module

On that compsource link, I got Corsairs 8GB memory. The newegg link has the Kingston's 2X2GB. So I'm not sure what you were shooting for...

What you want to do too is take the model number of whatever memory, motherboard, etc. And have google match you up with the best price. That's how I found nextwarehouse.com. I actually got my entire server build from them.

Here is an example:

Kingston ValueRAM 4 GB : 2 x 2 GB Memory - DIMM 240-pin - 1333 MHz ( PC3-10600 )#

Personally, I would never skimp on ECC memory, compared to non-ECC memory, but again, for your purposes...MAYBE you can get away with non-ECC. But I wouldn't do it on a practice server...or any server really...

tiersten

ssampier wrote: »

SAS is expensive, but fast.

Depending on your budget you could do a raid 10 with "enterprise class" SATA drive*. I did a RAID 1 + hotspare SATA server like this for almost nothing.

Those "enterprise" rated SATA drives are popular as 2nd tier storage now but I wouldn't use them as 1st tier despite what the manufacturers claim.

ssampier

tiersten wrote: »

Those "enterprise" rated SATA drives are popular as 2nd tier storage now but I wouldn't use them as 1st tier despite what the manufacturers claim.

In a normal environment, I would agree. But my last employer wasn't normal.

Seriously, we had a tight budget and it was a very small office, so the SATA worked fine.

As for the OP, this is not production, so it shouldn't matter.

erpadmin

ssampier wrote: »

In a normal environment, I would agree. But my last employer wasn't normal. Seriously, we had a tight budget and it was a very small office, so the SATA worked fine.

As for the OP, this is not production, so it shouldn't matter.

Ditto on that...regular SATA will be a-ok for him!

MentholMoose

Regarding the motherboard, the onboard RAID is software RAID (AKA fakeraid). It is an Intel controller, so ESX/ESXi will probably detect individual SATA drives, but will likely ignore any RAID configuration. You may have to fiddle with the BIOS settings to get this to work. This is typically the case for onboard RAID which is why your coworker suggested a dedicated RAID card.

From the manual it appears there is a P7F-X/SATA model with four additional SATA ports on a Marvell controller. These may not work at all.

The onboard NICs are also highly suspect, being Marvell which I believe isn't supported. Generally you want onboard NICs to be Intel or Broadcom, though some NVIDIA work.

I attached the specs for reference.

p7f-x_specs.jpg

Bl8ckr0uter

Good call. Guess I better spend the extra money and get a decent motherboard. What did you use on your esxi boxes?