Microsoft Certified Master Changes

RobertKaucherRobertKaucher A cornfield in OhioMember Posts: 4,299 ■■■■■■■■■■
It looks like there have been some changes to the MCM program. You guys have any information on this?

I did not see anything on Born-to-Learn. But I did not do a real search...

Links I have seen:
New Path to Microsoft Certified Master: Microsoft SQL Server 2008
Microsoft SQL Server Certification l Database Administrator and Developer

Comments

  • it_consultantit_consultant Member Posts: 1,903
    Is anyone here an MCM? I would like to do exchange but the price is fairly exorbitant. They want this to be like a CCIE (and it very well might be) but I am not sure if its worth it.
  • Mojo_666Mojo_666 Member Posts: 438
    Is anyone here an MCM? I would like to do exchange but the price is fairly exorbitant. They want this to be like a CCIE (and it very well might be) but I am not sure if its worth it.

    [FONT=&quot]I get the impression that this is much more out of reach to people than the CCIE, the last list I saw of people who had an MCM was full of MS employees and other huge companies such as HP, Dell and some very big consultancies, the only chap I bumped into (online) who has one said he didn't know of a single person who had this cert who was not sponsored by a major company his job actually included testing/vetting people at his company to see if they were worth investing in.[/FONT]
  • RobertKaucherRobertKaucher A cornfield in OhioMember Posts: 4,299 ■■■■■■■■■■
    I'm guessing the changes to the SQL Server MCM program will eventually be rolled out to the others. This seems it would put the MCM within the reach of more people. It looks like the the exams are going to be via Prometric and cost around $1000.

    EDIT: Clearification - changes seem to be to SQL Server MCM ONLY!

    EDIT 2: It's actually $2500. $500 for the written, $2000 for the lab exam.
  • Mojo_666Mojo_666 Member Posts: 438
    I'm guessing the changes to the SQL Server MCM program will eventually be rolled out to the others. This seems it would put the MCM within the reach of more people. It looks like the the exams are going to be via Prometric and cost around $1000.

    EDIT: Clearification - changes seem to be to SQL Server MCM ONLY!

    2 x 1k Exams does make it doable for sure, I will have to keep an eye on this as I will deffo be up for doing the MCM: Windows Server 2008 R2 Directory.
  • RobertKaucherRobertKaucher A cornfield in OhioMember Posts: 4,299 ■■■■■■■■■■
    Mojo_666 wrote: »
    2 x 1k Exams does make it doable for sure, I will have to keep an eye on this as I will deffo be up for doing the MCM: Windows Server 2008 R2 Directory.

    Sorry, my memory failed me. It's $2500. $500 for the written and $2000 for the lab.
  • Mike-MikeMike-Mike Member Posts: 1,860
    so it went from like 18 thousand to $2500?
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  • EssendonEssendon Member Posts: 4,546 ■■■■■■■■■■
    Mike-Mike wrote: »
    so it went from like 18 thousand to $2500?
    I think RK just meant the price of the exam and lab. The actual program is still a mad $18,500...icon_eek.gificon_eek.gif
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  • ClaymooreClaymoore Member Posts: 1,637
    I wonder if this change has anything to do with the complaints that Brent Ozar posted on his blog when he went through a SQL MCM rotation:
    SQL MCM: Now, the bad stuff. | Brent Ozar - Too Much Information

    If the presentations and training aren't mind-blowing, and the lab doesn't have to be complex with expensive equipment (like the OCS MCM lab), why bother going to Redmond? One of the reasons on my long list of reasons to want the Exchange MCM is the ability to eat, sleep, and breathe Exchange 2010 for 3 straight weeks with some of the top Exchange people in the world. Just showing up for a written and a lab exam wouldn't be as much fun.
  • TheShadowTheShadow Member Posts: 1,057 ■■■■■■□□□□
    Claymoore wrote: »
    I wonder if this change has anything to do with the complaints that Brent Ozar posted on his blog when he went through a SQL MCM rotation:
    SQL MCM: Now, the bad stuff. | Brent Ozar - Too Much Information

    If the presentations and training aren't mind-blowing, and the lab doesn't have to be complex with expensive equipment (like the OCS MCM lab), why bother going to Redmond? One of the reasons on my long list of reasons to want the Exchange MCM is the ability to eat, sleep, and breathe Exchange 2010 for 3 straight weeks with some of the top Exchange people in the world. Just showing up for a written and a lab exam wouldn't be as much fun.

    Now that they have eliminated the mandatory trip to Redmond for SQL, I wonder if we will see lower cost boot camp companies like the ones for CCIE pop up next year. Should be interesting to see what comes of this.
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  • RobertKaucherRobertKaucher A cornfield in OhioMember Posts: 4,299 ■■■■■■■■■■
    Claymoore wrote: »
    I wonder if this change has anything to do with the complaints that Brent Ozar posted on his blog when he went through a SQL MCM rotation:
    SQL MCM: Now, the bad stuff. | Brent Ozar - Too Much Information

    If the presentations and training aren't mind-blowing, and the lab doesn't have to be complex with expensive equipment (like the OCS MCM lab), why bother going to Redmond? One of the reasons on my long list of reasons to want the Exchange MCM is the ability to eat, sleep, and breathe Exchange 2010 for 3 straight weeks with some of the top Exchange people in the world. Just showing up for a written and a lab exam wouldn't be as much fun.

    I totally see your point with this. And a part of me totally agrees with you. A big part of me does. What I want, as I have said before, is a higher level certification that maps to the CCNP for server applications like SharePoint, SQL, Exchange, etc. I don't think the MCM should be that. Maybe it could be, and the Architact (MCA) cert can absorb the components of the MCM that fall off like the week long course. Or maybe MS should consider revamping the MCITPs so that they have the lab exams and actually represent a truely professional level certification. But everyone agrees there is a huge chasm between the MCITP and the MCM and yet the distance between the MCTS and MCITP is only a step or two.

    What I think would be great is something that maps to the Cisco certification levels:

    CCENT - MCTS - Entry Level
    CCNA - MCITP - 1 to 2 years experience
    CCNP - Certification X - 5 to 7 years
    CCIE - MCM - 10+ years

    And the years of experience are just a generality more than a requirement. Some people have claimed MVP status kind of fills that gap, but I don't think so. The MVP status is very political and is awarded more than earned; which is not to say thse who have it have not earned it, they have. It's just a comment on how the credential is obtained.
  • RobertKaucherRobertKaucher A cornfield in OhioMember Posts: 4,299 ■■■■■■■■■■
    Essendon wrote: »
    I think RK just meant the price of the exam and lab. The actual program is still a mad $18,500...icon_eek.gificon_eek.gif

    This is unclear. The page mentions instructor lead courses but does not state if they are an actual requirement or not....
  • it_consultantit_consultant Member Posts: 1,903
    Claymoore wrote: »
    I wonder if this change has anything to do with the complaints that Brent Ozar posted on his blog when he went through a SQL MCM rotation:
    SQL MCM: Now, the bad stuff. | Brent Ozar - Too Much Information

    If the presentations and training aren't mind-blowing, and the lab doesn't have to be complex with expensive equipment (like the OCS MCM lab), why bother going to Redmond? One of the reasons on my long list of reasons to want the Exchange MCM is the ability to eat, sleep, and breathe Exchange 2010 for 3 straight weeks with some of the top Exchange people in the world. Just showing up for a written and a lab exam wouldn't be as much fun.

    I agree, I want to hang out with the geniuses I talk to when I run into a problem than I can't solve in Exchange 2007 / 2010. If thats not what people are getting then it is not worth the price.
  • earweedearweed Member Posts: 5,192 ■■■■■■■■■□
    I agree with Robert about MS needs a cert between the MCITP and MCM that has a written and a lab requirement. Even if MS eventually would strengthen the MCITP by adding a lab requirement it would be better. Right now you go from the MCITP which you obtain with no lab type testing at all and no requirement of documentable work experience and the next step is the MCM which is practically unobtainable for an individual to get without sponsorship.
    Even if the SQL Master is being whittled down some to be more obtainable that still leaves a lot of holes.
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  • creamy_stewcreamy_stew Member Posts: 406 ■■■□□□□□□□
    I totally see your point with this. And a part of me totally agrees with you. A big part of me does. What I want, as I have said before, is a higher level certification that maps to the CCNP for server applications like SharePoint, SQL, Exchange, etc. I don't think the MCM should be that. Maybe it could be, and the Architact (MCA) cert can absorb the components of the MCM that fall off like the week long course. Or maybe MS should consider revamping the MCITPs so that they have the lab exams and actually represent a truely professional level certification. But everyone agrees there is a huge chasm between the MCITP and the MCM and yet the distance between the MCTS and MCITP is only a step or two.

    What I think would be great is something that maps to the Cisco certification levels:

    CCENT - MCTS - Entry Level
    CCNA - MCITP - 1 to 2 years experience
    CCNP - Certification X - 5 to 7 years
    CCIE - MCM - 10+ years

    And the years of experience are just a generality more than a requirement. Some people have claimed MVP status kind of fills that gap, but I don't think so. The MVP status is very political and is awarded more than earned; which is not to say thse who have it have not earned it, they have. It's just a comment on how the credential is obtained.

    I've read this three times now, and I'm still confused.

    "A big part of me does. What I want, as I have said before, is a higher level certification that maps to the CCNP for server applications like SharePoint, SQL, Exchange, etc. I don't think the MCM should be that"

    The quote above makes me want to kill baby Jesus.
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  • Mike-MikeMike-Mike Member Posts: 1,860
    I've read this three times now, and I'm still confused.

    "A big part of me does. What I want, as I have said before, is a higher level certification that maps to the CCNP for server applications like SharePoint, SQL, Exchange, etc. I don't think the MCM should be that"

    The quote above makes me want to kill baby Jesus.


    that almost made me spit out my tea
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  • RobertKaucherRobertKaucher A cornfield in OhioMember Posts: 4,299 ■■■■■■■■■■
    I've read this three times now, and I'm still confused.

    "A big part of me does. What I want, as I have said before, is a higher level certification that maps to the CCNP for server applications like SharePoint, SQL, Exchange, etc. I don't think the MCM should be that"

    The quote above makes me want to kill baby Jesus.

    Which part of the quote makes you wish to commit murder? I will explain so no one's nativity statues are improperly disturbed this season.
  • it_consultantit_consultant Member Posts: 1,903
    I am going to take a stab at it and say that creamy-stew notices that there is a bit of a contradiction in the idea that Microsoft has an MCM for applications like SQL and exchange but it SHOULDN'T map to the CCNP. I think the problem is that the original poster left off the Microsoft Certified Architect which would be on the level of CCIE. That would leave the MCM somewhere between an experienced CCNP and a CCNP that has passed the written but not the lab.
  • RobertKaucherRobertKaucher A cornfield in OhioMember Posts: 4,299 ■■■■■■■■■■
    I am going to take a stab at it and say that creamy-stew notices that there is a bit of a contradiction in the idea that Microsoft has an MCM for applications like SQL and exchange but it SHOULDN'T map to the CCNP. I think the problem is that the original poster left off the Microsoft Certified Architect which would be on the level of CCIE. That would leave the MCM somewhere between an experienced CCNP and a CCNP that has passed the written but not the lab.

    Well, no that was not my intention at all. I think it is fine that we might conceptually map the CCIE to the MCM. I think the MCA might conceptually map to the CCA (Cisco Certified Architect). I think the MCM should stay as a more elite certification that requires instruction from the builders of the technology themselves. But I also think that there is too much of a gap between the MCITP and the MCM. If MS wants to waterdown the MCM, there is nothing I can do about that. But why not create an advanced certification to fill that gap rather than dilute the MCM? This is why I mentioned "certification X" in my post. That just does not exist at the moment. The MCITP *should* be that professional level cert, but it never will be untill there are lab based exams for it. I know MS started doing that but they also failed. I think the MCITPs are good exams that achieve their objective - if their objective is testing soley knowledge.
  • it_consultantit_consultant Member Posts: 1,903
    I list that as one of my critiques when I take MS tests - they need labs.
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