Job outlook for CCNPs vs. CCNAs

Dr_AtomicDr_Atomic Member Posts: 184
Does anyone care to venture a guess as to the job outlook for someone with *some* experience who has an NP vs. an NA? Easier or harder?

I know the income *should* be more, everything being equal - I just don't know what the job market is like for someone job-hunting who has an NP.

If anyone is in this situation, feel free to comment. I know someone with an NA who's been looking, and it's been months with only one interview, and he's been applying everywhere. He has a non-related bachelor's and about four years of experience. If the NP job market is dead, I might also re-consider moving in that direction.
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Comments

  • jmritenourjmritenour Member Posts: 565
    In my searches, for what it's worth, I see CCNA listed as a requirement on pretty much every job requiring any knowledge of networking whatsoever. I can't say I've seen CCNP specifically listed. I've seen CCIE quite a bit on higher level engineering positions, and I've seen specializations such as CCNA Voice and CCNA Security. But, to be fair, I tend to look more at the server administration end of things, so my searches might be a bit skewed in terms of what you're looking for.
    "Start by doing what is necessary, then do what is possible; suddenly, you are doing the impossible." - St. Francis of Assisi
  • chmorinchmorin Member Posts: 1,446 ■■■■■□□□□□
    What else can you bring to the table? Anyone sitting on a CCNA or CCNP will probably have a hard time getting past HR with no experience or no other specific training.

    However, assuming better jobs are harder to find, jobs requiring a CCNP and above will probably be harder to come by than jobs requiring a CCNA. However, CCNP jobs will usually pay more.

    I, and others, usually specify jobs as "CCNP Level" or "CCNA Level". My current job, for example, is somewhere in-between. So it is fitting I have a CCNA: Voice. Now, there are alot more things at play to getting into this position than just having that particular certification. You have to prove solid knowledge of IT in general, and stuff that may just happen to be important to the employer. Which usually ends up to be luck, unless you have a contact inside the company (which is ALWAYS the best way to get a job).

    So as far as what jobs are hiring right now at this moment, it depends on where you are. I'd be willing to bet with a CCNA and some networking experience he could get an temporary job that could be contract-to-hire. Try and use contacts when possible, and be nice to EVERYONE. I did a good deed to someone, and that got me a contact for the job I have right now. You never know who may be that person.
    Currently Pursuing
    WGU (BS in IT Network Administration) - 52%| CCIE:Voice Written - 0% (0/200 Hours)
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  • mikearamamikearama Member Posts: 749
    I have also never come across a description that asked for an NP... HR peeps only seem to know about the NA and the IE. I get a kick out of postings that are NOC positions that list requirements of "CCNA and/or CCIE". Umm, hello... there is something in between those two!!!

    Nonetheless, I found my CCNA got me the interview with the company I'm with now (Toyota Canada), but my NP and ability to pass their technical interview got me the job. Experience and skillz have kept me here almost four years.

    So, just be sure to leave NA on your resume. I've heard people ask why some continue to list their NA after getting their NP, or their NP once they've got an IE. Precisely for this reason.
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  • rogue2shadowrogue2shadow CISSP, GXPN, OSCE, OSCP, OSWP, eMAPT, CEH, CNDA, A+, Network+, Security+ Member Posts: 1,501 ■■■■■■■■□□
    mikearama wrote: »
    So, just be sure to leave NA on your resume. I've heard people ask why some continue to list their NA after getting their NP, or their NP once they've got an IE. Precisely for this reason.

    Good point. Sometimes its for padding (why I list my CCENT and CCNA together for now icon_lol.gif), and sometimes its done to get more hits on HR scans. If, for example, you have a CCNP, and HR is just running random scans for "CCNA or CCIE" and the job posting is actually looking for an *NA, you have a great chance of not being included in the findings (unless they were looking at you to begin with). There is still tons of misunderstanding about pre-requisites and certification levels within IT HR globally (I think that anyone in IT HR should get trained on what exactly each major cert out there is generally about).

  • networker050184networker050184 Mod Posts: 11,962 Mod
    There is definitely a market for people with "CCNP level" skills. Those positions might not specifically ask for the certification, but smart, level headed individuals with certifications on current technology will always be in demand.
    An expert is a man who has made all the mistakes which can be made.
  • HeeroHeero Member Posts: 486
    I tend to see a lot of positions that list the CCNP as desired or preferred. I will admit though, that I have seen a few that list CCNA required, CCIE preferred. It's just like, WTF, no middle ground between entry level and expert?
  • cisco_certscisco_certs Member Posts: 119
    I see a lot of job posting that they want CCNA but the job requirements/knowledge are all about CCNP experience. lol HR does not know that they are posting.
  • Dr_AtomicDr_Atomic Member Posts: 184
    I see a lot of job posting that they want CCNA but the job requirements/knowledge are all about CCNP experience. lol HR does not know that they are posting.

    Yeah, I agree. I think most job ads are put together by ignorant HR staffers who don't know a CCNA from a CCIE from an MCSE. They also tend to throw every certification and experience in the book in their job requirements. And I think they expect people to come out of the woodwork with all their listed requirements, not knowing such people really don't exist.
  • networker050184networker050184 Mod Posts: 11,962 Mod
    Dr_Atomic wrote: »
    Yeah, I agree. I think most job ads are put together by ignorant HR staffers who don't know a CCNA from a CCIE from an MCSE. They also tend to throw every certification and experience in the book in their job requirements. And I think they expect people to come out of the woodwork with all their listed requirements, not knowing such people really don't exist.

    I take what they are asking for with a grain of salt. If I can do the main function of the job I'll apply. Once you get into the interview with the technical people they will know if your experience and qualifications are applicable. I've never seen a job add that I have been 100% qualified for. There is always some obscure requirement.
    An expert is a man who has made all the mistakes which can be made.
  • mikej412mikej412 Member Posts: 10,086 ■■■■■■■■■■
    Dr_Atomic wrote: »
    Does anyone care to venture a guess as to the job outlook for someone with *some* experience who has an NP vs. an NA? Easier or harder?
    Unless you define what *some* is I'm not sure what you're really comparing.

    I've seen two different CCNPs with 8 years experience. One's job was just to create reports and call in vendors to fix stuff and the other was actually hands on. The hands on CCNP is currently still employed. The report generator call-a-vendor CCNP is coming up on 3 years unemployed. That call-a-vendor CCNP would still lose out on a technical interview against a noob CCNA.

    I don't have a problem telling someone to continue on to their CCNP studies after EARNING their CCNA -- but their priority should be find that first CCNA Level job to EARN some networking experience.

    Someone with a CCNA who settles for a help desk job helping users with Microsoft Word for 1 year and earned their CCNP during that time is waaaaaaaaaaay less valuable than a CCNA who got a NOC or Junior Network Technician position in a Data Center and earned their CCNP during the same 1 year.

    Now if that CCNA in the NOC or Data Center was too busy to work on their CCNP during that year but they picked up lots of GREAT EXPERIENCE, that CCNA is probably still waaaaaaaaaaaaay more valuable -- but that help desk CCNP may get the chance to BOMB more interviews for CCNP Level jobs than that CCNA would.

    But it depends on the company and the interviewer. Where I work we've decided that interviewing an inexperienced CCNP is a waste of time -- unless they are coming through the University Recruiting Program.

    As for the job outlook -- a quick check of HotJobs in Chicago turned up
    CCNA 12
    CCNP 11
    CCVP 4
    CCIE 8

    But you'd have to subtract 1 from each of CCNA, CCNP, and CCIE to remove the fake Job Posting Training SCAM **** Camp SPAM posts.

    Just looking at the CCNA and CCNP postings more closely, one clueless recruiter had 4 generic jobs listed under CCNA of which 2 of them were also repeated as "CCNP Jobs."

    So removing clueless recruiter from the mix and Training SCAM SPAM
    CCNA 7
    CCNP 8

    And there didn't look to be any overlap between those job postings -- so there does appear to a good percentage of job listings (75%+) that weren't made up by clueless HR wonks. I'll leave actually reading those job descriptions for further analysis as an exercise for anyone interested.

    Edit: The only CCSP listing was a Cisco Gold Partner looking for a CCIE or CCSP.

    In the future when all Cisco Certifications are CCNP (CCNP Security, CCNP Voice, CCNP Wireless, CCNP) it will be harder track and differentiate the demand using the posted job listings unless someone reads and classifies each one individually (or just gets them all).

    Heck -- maybe Cisco can rename the CCNA to CCNP Associate.
    :mike: Cisco Certifications -- Collect the Entire Set!
  • ehndeehnde Member Posts: 1,103
    Mike you have me worried. I plan on getting my ICND1 in the first few months of 2011 and ICND2 not too much later (will have an A.S. in May, the job search commences in April). And getting a help desk job SEEMED like the way to go, even though I'd much rather work on a network. Based on what you just said I think I'll shoot for a NOC job....but they don't exactly grow on trees around here.

    I didn't realize how important the experience was. I automatically assumed CCNP would mean more employment options with better pay.
    Climb a mountain, tell no one.
  • mikej412mikej412 Member Posts: 10,086 ■■■■■■■■■■
    ehnde wrote: »
    getting a help desk job SEEMED like the way to go
    If you have a CCNA and want to go networking as your career, then a NOC or Data Center Rack 'n Stack position -- or even driving the delivery truck for a Cisco Business Partner -- makes more sense as Plan A.

    Help Desk can be Plan B -- but you need to target a company with internal career growth potential.
    ehnde wrote: »
    I didn't realize how important the experience was. I automatically assumed CCNP would mean more employment options with better pay.
    With a CCNA you need to demonstrate that you have the CCNA level of knowledge and skill -- and there will be "CCNA Jobs" that will consider you without previous CCNA work experience.

    Once you hit the professional level, you need to be able to demonstrate the knowledge and skills -- and have some experience. As a new CCNP you will be competing against experienced old-timer CCNPs, CCNAs who've been around a few data centers in their day and eat noob CCNPs for breakfast, and the hot young gun CCNAs that put in their network time while earning their CCNP and now want to strut their stuff at the CCNP level.

    And then there's the clueless inexerienced CCNA/CCNP who never worked a day in their life on a real network who wonders why no will let them iinto the data center to play with the big boys and girls -- and gets picked on by the inexperienced noob CCNA who just got hired for the open 3rd shift NOC position.
    :mike: Cisco Certifications -- Collect the Entire Set!
  • Dr_AtomicDr_Atomic Member Posts: 184
    ehnde wrote: »
    Mike you have me worried. I plan on getting my ICND1 in the first few months of 2011 and ICND2 not too much later (will have an A.S. in May, the job search commences in April). And getting a help desk job SEEMED like the way to go, even though I'd much rather work on a network. Based on what you just said I think I'll shoot for a NOC job....but they don't exactly grow on trees around here.

    I didn't realize how important the experience was. I automatically assumed CCNP would mean more employment options with better pay.

    If you get a CCNA, getting a job doing ANY configuration with real equipment vs. just monitoring alarms or something, would be far more advantageous in my opinion. I worked with a guy once who was an advanced CCNP, and he went around to sites doing configs, setting up networks, etc, and actually having to input commands and make things work - vs. just watching and monitoring what other people have done (a lot like NOC work). He was advancing his knowledge instead of letting it atrophy and wither. After all, if you don't use your CCNA knowledge, you'll lose it pretty quick.
  • mrh86mrh86 Registered Users Posts: 1 ■□□□□□□□□□
    Dr_Atomic wrote: »
    If you get a CCNA, getting a job doing ANY configuration with real equipment vs. just monitoring alarms or something, would be far more advantageous in my opinion. I worked with a guy once who was an advanced CCNP, and he went around to sites doing configs, setting up networks, etc, and actually having to input commands and make things work - vs. just watching and monitoring what other people have done (a lot like NOC work). He was advancing his knowledge instead of letting it atrophy and wither. After all, if you don't use your CCNA knowledge, you'll lose it pretty quick.


    Is it true that if you don't use it, you lose it?
  • CCIEWANNABECCIEWANNABE Banned Posts: 465
    mrh86 wrote: »
    Is it true that if you don't use it, you lose it?

    All depends on what kind of learner you are. Some people never loose what they have learned. Others, well, you get the idea. What I have seen in my career is the younger you are the more knowledge you are able to retain. When I worked for the Gov't I use to have to tell more than half the people I worked (over 40 yrs old) with the same commands over and over and over again and explain what they did and what they were seeing happen via the CLI.

    But then again, I have met some pretty sharp older people so again it just depends on the individual.
  • jamesleecolemanjamesleecoleman Member Posts: 1,899 ■■■■■□□□□□
    mikej412 wrote: »
    If you have a CCNA and want to go networking as your career, then a NOC or Data Center Rack 'n Stack position -- or even driving the delivery truck for a Cisco Business Partner -- makes more sense as Plan A.


    What are some titles that I should look under for the rack and stack positions?
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  • mikej412mikej412 Member Posts: 10,086 ■■■■■■■■■■
    What are some titles that I should look under for the rack and stack positions?
    Our Network Technicians do the deliveries and rack 'n stack -- but individual admins (server & network) may sometimes rack their own equipment (in small quantities).

    We've also had Cabling Technicians (from a Cabling Company) do the rack 'n stack during a data center build out -- and we've had the Moving Company do rack 'n stack on data center moves.

    But it can vary by company -- I met one CCIE Candidate at a Lab Exam who wanted to know if the rest of us "still had to rack 'n stack" -- and I didn't have the heart to tell him that we even have a couple admins for our work lab so I don't even have to rack 'n stack there icon_lol.gif
    :mike: Cisco Certifications -- Collect the Entire Set!
  • killuah72killuah72 Member Posts: 60 ■■□□□□□□□□
    If you really like networking then you should go for your CCNP. I waited for a few years as a CCNA to finally land that first networking job but it never came. During that time I studied for my CCNP off and on because I was swayed by many people's comments about CCNP with no experience is stupid. Then I finally decided to go for it and completed my CCNP, then after a few days, I got an interview for a NOC Engineer position, 2 of the interviewers were CCIEs. They said I was really knowledgeable and they could see that I was really passionate about networking so they decided to hire me that same day. During my first month's employment, I caught up on a lot of "real world" stuff and all my coworkers are really impressed. If you understand the mechanics of the protocols in the lab, it works exactly like it is in the real world.

    I am not bragging at all or anything and I understand that I am really blessed to get this job, but I just wanted to give you a positive insight on what opportunities are out there and that some people are out there who are willing to give us a chance.

    Go for your CCNP if you really like networking and don't get swayed by negative comments and waste time like I did.
  • logicmyfootlogicmyfoot Member Posts: 82 ■■□□□□□□□□
    killuah72 wrote: »
    If you really like networking then you should go for your CCNP. I waited for a few years as a CCNA to finally land that first networking job but it never came. During that time I studied for my CCNP off and on because I was swayed by many people's comments about CCNP with no experience is stupid. Then I finally decided to go for it and completed my CCNP, then after a few days, I got an interview for a NOC Engineer position, 2 of the interviewers were CCIEs. They said I was really knowledgeable and they could see that I was really passionate about networking so they decided to hire me that same day. During my first month's employment, I caught up on a lot of "real world" stuff and all my coworkers are really impressed. If you understand the mechanics of the protocols in the lab, it works exactly like it is in the real world.

    I am not bragging at all or anything and I understand that I am really blessed to get this job, but I just wanted to give you a positive insight on what opportunities are out there and that some people are out there who are willing to give us a chance.

    Go for your CCNP if you really like networking and don't get swayed by negative comments and waste time like I did.

    +1 dude repped!

    While i current don't have a networking job, i was thinking of going for CCNP because i enjoyed studying for CCNA and CCNA:S so so much ( that time while i was preparing \ studying flew past like swoosh......). You cleared the doubt in my mind. Thank you
  • HypersonikHypersonik Member Posts: 22 ■□□□□□□□□□
    killuah72 wrote: »
    If you really like networking then you should go for your CCNP. I waited for a few years as a CCNA to finally land that first networking job but it never came. During that time I studied for my CCNP off and on because I was swayed by many people's comments about CCNP with no experience is stupid. Then I finally decided to go for it and completed my CCNP, then after a few days, I got an interview for a NOC Engineer position, 2 of the interviewers were CCIEs. They said I was really knowledgeable and they could see that I was really passionate about networking so they decided to hire me that same day. During my first month's employment, I caught up on a lot of "real world" stuff and all my coworkers are really impressed. If you understand the mechanics of the protocols in the lab, it works exactly like it is in the real world.

    I am not bragging at all or anything and I understand that I am really blessed to get this job, but I just wanted to give you a positive insight on what opportunities are out there and that some people are out there who are willing to give us a chance.

    Go for your CCNP if you really like networking and don't get swayed by negative comments and waste time like I did.
    Great post.

    Tis difficult over here in Blighty (UK) too. I've been at my NOC job for 3 years, have a CCNA (working on my CCNA:S) also have a Bachelors Degree in Computer Systems.

    I am looking at doing my CCNP next, but I just DON'T get enough hands on experience which is a shame because we use all the latest kit from 3560s, 6500s and Nexus range too.

    Shame I don't get to play with them.

    But comments like the above are pretty reassuring - just plug away :)
  • aldousaldous Member Posts: 105
    just to add to the positive side of the board i thought i'd share my personal experience.

    my uni course was networks an security which i originally wasn't too intrested in the network part. they taught following the cisco academy and by the second year i had covered all the CCNA material at uni.

    when i started looking at the job market it looked a bit bleak but anything network wanted CCNA so i went and studies through the summer and got the NA. by now i had been bitten by the networking bug and when we started NP BSCI and BCMSN in the final year i went and did BSCI and ONT with the intention of being a CCNP before finishing uni (and one of those with no real world experience)

    Towards the end of my final year a few jobs were advertised for grad schemes etc i applied for one (i had intended to go to masters/phd so wasn't particularly job hungry) and after a cv sift and phone interview was invited to an assessment center (cant give away more details) and was accepted for the job!

    the reason i'm posting is that i was one of the least experienced people at the assesment day having no practical experience (i have worked as a grocery store clerk to fund my uni for the last 4 years) and only my certs/degree (and my thesis was on a security topic and not networking). i later found out that i was one of the first picked people because of the way i conducted myself in the various interviews and presentations we had to do on that day as well as the technical knowledge and the demonstrated self starting (getting my certs out of my own money alongside a degree).

    my point is saying that getting the NP with no experience is pointless is just being negative for negatives sake. you can not take away the knowledge that you learn during the studies and you may apply those to other area's. if you study properly its never a waste of time.

    it may be true that an employer might take a CCNA+experience over a CCNP with none but thats normally a given for any job and if you dont try you wont know sometimes being knowledgeable and passionate about your subject can be enougth to make someone take a chance on you. i now have a kick ass job, i'm paid way more than the average uni grad and none of this would of happened had i not done the NA and NP at uni as those were what got me to the assessment center
  • notun1notun1 Member Posts: 51 ■■□□□□□□□□
    killuah72 wrote: »
    If you really like networking then you should go for your CCNP. I waited for a few years as a CCNA to finally land that first networking job but it never came. During that time I studied for my CCNP off and on because I was swayed by many people's comments about CCNP with no experience is stupid. Then I finally decided to go for it and completed my CCNP, then after a few days, I got an interview for a NOC Engineer position, 2 of the interviewers were CCIEs. They said I was really knowledgeable and they could see that I was really passionate about networking so they decided to hire me that same day. During my first month's employment, I caught up on a lot of "real world" stuff and all my coworkers are really impressed. If you understand the mechanics of the protocols in the lab, it works exactly like it is in the real world.

    I am not bragging at all or anything and I understand that I am really blessed to get this job, but I just wanted to give you a positive insight on what opportunities are out there and that some people are out there who are willing to give us a chance.

    Go for your CCNP if you really like networking and don't get swayed by negative comments and waste time like I did.

    Excellent post!!! Thanks a lot for sharing this. I got so much inspiration to go for CCNP now.....:)
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  • jovan88jovan88 Member Posts: 393
    I couldnt agree more with killuah72
  • VAHokie56VAHokie56 Member Posts: 783
    mrh86 wrote: »
    Is it true that if you don't use it, you lose it?


    LoL!

    +1 for 40 year old virgin quote icon_thumright.gif
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  • NetwurkNetwurk Member Posts: 1,155 ■■■■■□□□□□
    Getting back to the original question, a CCNP is valued way beyond a CCNA (and a CCIE is more or less priceless unless you're a total jerk).

    However.....

    The CCNP (or the CCNA) will only get you an interview if you can make it past the HR people. The admin who interviews you will usually be the one who decides if you get the job. I've been a manager and I've been a regular joe. But my opinion on job candidates has always been valued whether or not I actually have the final say.

    So here's my two cents.

    Give honest straightforward answers.

    If you have a hard time answering the questions they ask, tell them you catch on quick and are willing to learn (and be ready to back it up, not necessarily by juggling backup tapes).

    Don't kiss ass, employers who value that skill are usually not worth working for. But be respectful.

    And if you're an old guy like me, be thankful you no longer need to do precision soldering to get a tech job. My eyes aren't that good these days, although I can still replace a popped cap if I need to.

    Good luck kids.

    :)
  • NullCodeNullCode Member Posts: 72 ■■□□□□□□□□
    Well here is my info.

    I saw a lot of people here, who were saying that a CCNP without real experience ~= CCNA. But that is not true, i got to a job interview(i had CCNA and BSCI, BCMSN & ISCW), so not yet a CCNP. In the test i had to make a topology of a network, with different requirements. Without the knowledge i got from CCNP (HSRP, GLBP & VPNs), i wouldn't have got the job.

    My suggestions is:

    Get a CCNA, look for a job in Networking (you won't find one, in a a few days, it will require a few weeks/months), but in the meantime learn for CCNP. Don't stop learning, because 'people will not hire a CCNP without experience'. Well you can always not put the CCNP on the CV.
    People here say, get a CCNA and then get hired, like it is that easy. If you are in college, then it's a good thing to study, and get the CCNP too, it won't hurt.
    Bottom line, I agree with Killuah72.

    Offtopic: never stop learning, be a student all your life.
  • mikej412mikej412 Member Posts: 10,086 ■■■■■■■■■■
    NullCode wrote: »
    My suggestions is:

    Get a CCNA, look for a job in Networking (you won't find one, in a a few days, it will require a few weeks/months), but in the meantime learn for CCNP. Don't stop learning, because 'people will not hire a CCNP without experience'. Well you can always not put the CCNP on the CV.
    You've pretty much summed up the advice of a bunch of members here who have bazillions of years of experience between them. That should be THE PLAN for most people.
    NullCode wrote: »
    People here say, get a CCNA and then get hired, like it is that easy.
    No -- actually several of us say a Job HUNT takes more than just sitting on your sofa and waiting for jobs to fall in your lap because you've got certifications listed on your resume -- this isn't the late 1990's anymore.

    http://www.techexams.net/forums/jobs-degrees/59556-i-need-help-i-really-have-absolutely-no-job-getting-skills-all.html#post466395
    NullCode wrote: »
    If you are in college, then it's a good thing to study, and get the CCNP too, it won't hurt.

    I've mentioned that we will hire CCNPs without experience when they come through our College Recruiters -- but I should mention that the large number of people we hire with NO CERTIFICATIONS also come through the College Recruiting Program. The CCNA/CCNP for a new College Grad usually gets them bumped up in our group's lists over their peers without certifications -- BUT the grads with INTERNSHIP or WORK EXPERIENCE are the ones at the top (with the Certification/Internship/Work Experience grads at the top of that group). Those are the college/university grads that get our first round of job offers.

    The same goes for a noob CCNA -- once they've made it past the technical phone screening.
    mikej412 wrote: »
    Unless you already have lots of industry experience, the CCNP could/should take a while to earn. But starting work on it while trying to find that first "CCNA Job" does help keep your Cisco knowledge and skill sharp for Job Interviews -- and may give you an advantage over other noob CCNAs.

    The problem with focusing on the CCNP instead of JOB HUNTING is that in a year another group of eager noob CCNAs is going to come pouring out out of Colleges and Universities and Community Colleges and High Schools -- and a good percentage of them know their stuff and won't be sitting on a sofa playing video games waiting for one of the few job board postings to lead to an interview.

    And every month there's another group of people who EARN their CCNA Certification who already work in IT and have some experience and are planning to crush you on job interviews to get their next IT job and step up.

    And of course there's the large number of people who just **** to get a ccna on their resume -- and then follow up with dumping the ccnp since they can't get a job and "the ccnp is the new entry level certification." icon_rolleyes.gif

    With the flood of inexperienced CCNPs entering the job market outside of the College/University recruiting process, I guess the CCIE will become the new entry level certification. The good thing about that is that there are no prerequisites so people won't have to waste their time getting the CCNA and CCNP or work experience. icon_lol.gif But we're already getting posts about that: http://www.techexams.net/forums/jobs-degrees/32086-unemployed-ccie.html
    :mike: Cisco Certifications -- Collect the Entire Set!
  • Dr_AtomicDr_Atomic Member Posts: 184
    mikej412 wrote: »
    You've pretty much summed up the advice of a bunch of members here who have bazillions of years of experience between them. That should be THE PLAN for most people.


    No -- actually several of us say a Job HUNT takes more than just sitting on your sofa and waiting for jobs to fall in your lap because you've got certifications listed on your resume -- this isn't the late 1990's anymore.

    http://www.techexams.net/forums/jobs-degrees/59556-i-need-help-i-really-have-absolutely-no-job-getting-skills-all.html#post466395



    I've mentioned that we will hire CCNPs without experience when they come through our College Recruiters -- but I should mention that the large number of people we hire with NO CERTIFICATIONS also come through the College Recruiting Program. The CCNA/CCNP for a new College Grad usually gets them bumped up in our group's lists over their peers without certifications -- BUT the grads with INTERNSHIP or WORK EXPERIENCE are the ones at the top (with the Certification/Internship/Work Experience grads at the top of that group). Those are the college/university grads that get our first round of job offers.

    The same goes for a noob CCNA -- once they've made it past the technical phone screening.



    The problem with focusing on the CCNP instead of JOB HUNTING is that in a year another group of eager noob CCNAs is going to come pouring out out of Colleges and Universities and Community Colleges and High Schools -- and a good percentage of them know their stuff and won't be sitting on a sofa playing video games waiting for one of the few job board postings to lead to an interview.

    And every month there's another group of people who EARN their CCNA Certification who already work in IT and have some experience and are planning to crush you on job interviews to get their next IT job and step up.

    And of course there's the large number of people who just **** to get a ccna on their resume -- and then follow up with dumping the ccnp since they can't get a job and "the ccnp is the new entry level certification." icon_rolleyes.gif

    With the flood of inexperienced CCNPs entering the job market outside of the College/University recruiting process, I guess the CCIE will become the new entry level certification. The good thing about that is that there are no prerequisites so people won't have to waste their time getting the CCNA and CCNP or work experience. icon_lol.gif But we're already getting posts about that: http://www.techexams.net/forums/jobs-degrees/32086-unemployed-ccie.html

    I think what's discouraging for many is that if they have little to no experience, people are saying that it's a waste of time to get a CCNP, since - allegedly - no experience = no consideration. If you're starting with little to no experience, you'll get into the job market quicker - IMHO - with a CCNP than with a CCNA or no cert at all. Ultimately, however, someone is going to have to take a chance on you, as you'd be an unknown quantity coming in.
  • mikej412mikej412 Member Posts: 10,086 ■■■■■■■■■■
    Dr_Atomic wrote: »
    I think what's discouraging for many is that if they have little to no experience, people are saying that it's a waste of time to get a CCNP, since - allegedly - no experience = no consideration. If you're starting with little to no experience, you'll get into the job market quicker - IMHO - with a CCNP than with a CCNA or no cert at all. Ultimately, however, someone is going to have to take a chance on you, as you'd be an unknown quantity coming in.
    It's not a waste of time working on the CCNP exams, it's just that your time is probably better spent -- and there is a better payoff -- focusing most of your time on finding a job with your CCNA.

    But that assumes you EARNED a CCNA and didn't just **** it.

    What's funny is that there are people (tricon7) who fail the CCNA and then fail again even using ****. When they finally "**** enough" to put a worthless ccna on their resume, they then spend their time complaining that no one will give them a chance.

    Then there are people who then **** CCVP exams (crunchyhippo) on top of their dumped ccna and complain about no one giving them a chance and how unfair it is that employers require experience. If you think a CCVP who can't make a phone call given access to a pay phone and a pocket full of change still deserves a job, then start your own consulting company and see how long you can bill your customers for the time it takes you to finally figure out how to get their phones to ring.

    Dr. Atomic -- if you think a CCNP will magically get you a job -- by all means go ahead and get one. Just stop bitching about how unfair it is that employers prefer job candidates who can demonstrate the knowledge and skills the certifications on their resume imply they should have. Did you ever think that maybe it's your lack of knowledge and skill from your ccna study that prevents you from getting a networking job -- not your lack of a CCNP?
    :mike: Cisco Certifications -- Collect the Entire Set!
  • bytenbyten Network+, Security+, CEH Member Posts: 22 ■■□□□□□□□□
    This thread is relevant to me also. I too have no networking experience. Most of my experience is on the development side of IT. To make things worse, I am 36. I have a bachelors and not too many certs now, but my dream is to focus the remaining portion of my career in netowrking. I'm going this path because it follows my natural interest and drive to apply technical skills.

    I talked to a recruiter and he said that I will need a CCNA in order for him to try me for netowrking jobs...I sure hope to do that and I will try to be agressive in going for networking positions. I know easier said than done....

    I've seen folks like me slide into business analyst roles and I *so* do not want to go there. "Networking...Take me away!"

    Certifications: CEH, Security+, Network+
    Certification Goals CISSP

    "The first principle is that you cannot fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool." -- Richard P. Feynman
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