General MCITP:SA and EA build

Hypntick

I am currently running a Core 2 Duo e7400 and now (yay) 6 GB of DDR2 1066. The processor apparently does not support 64 bit guest systems in VMware, although according to Intel it does, could be my motherboard.

Now i'm considering investing in a pure VM type build for study purposes. I have priced out a 6 core AMD system with 16 GB of DDR3 for around 850 bucks. This is a sizable investment for me due to lack of income right now, it's more a tax refund kind of buy. Would you say this is overkill for what I need it for?

I am also considering upgrading my current processor to a Intel Core 2 Quad Q9450 and slapping another 2 GB of DDR2 1066, giving me a total of 8 which is the max for my mobo. This will run me around 250 or so. Would this be enough to run the kind of labs i'm going to need?

Thoughts? Suggestions? Donations?

Thanks!

Essendon

I was in the exact same boat as you, I could either upgrade my e4600 Core 2 Duo, 4GB RAM to an e6500 for $80 so I could chuck on 2008 R2 on it, or I could build myself a whole new system for about $1000 including dual 23" monitors. Money was and is running tight, so I forked out $80 and am getting by for now. I can only have 4GB RAM as that's the max the freaking mobo can support. Windows 7 64 bit on its own chews about 1.2GB which doesnt leave much out of the max available of 3.50GB.

If you can, go for the new system, will get you through 3-4 years. I am saving every dollar I can so I can make myself a kick-ass system. Wait, 8GB of RAM on your current system is not bad either. What are you cert plans after the EA? I believe computers should be built in line with your cert aspirations and should last atleast 3 years for decent ROI.

Cant make any donations, I'm in need of some myself

Breadfan

Hypntick -

Did you check which spec code you have on your e7400? After looking on the Intel site, it shows several which can enable the VTx and one which doesnt have it. I know you know you have to enable it in the BIOS since most dont have it enabled by default.

If its only gonna cost you 250 to get the 9450 (a nice one BTW) go for it. I'm running a Q6600 w/ 8 GB RAM on Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3R and it smokes for running VM's and W7. I too wanted to upgrade to the Q9550 but for the same price cpu-wise I can get a i7 so why bother.

This setup has done me great for my MCSA and soon to be MCITP studies so I think you will do fine. Good luck.

Breadfan

Hypntick

Breadfan wrote: »

Hypntick -

Did you check which spec code you have on your e7400? After looking on the Intel site, it shows several which can enable the VTx and one which doesnt have it. I know you know you have to enable it in the BIOS since most dont have it enabled by default.

Yep spec code is the first one. So i'm thinking i'm being limited by my mobo on that front. Using Win 7 x64 Ult myself so it's a RAM hog. I've turned off everything I can turn off. I need to figure out if I am being limited by my mobo because if that's the case i'll just save up a bit longer and opt for the AMD 6 core and mobo that I know can run 64 bit guest on VM. Gonna try and update the bios here in a bit to see what that does for me, if anything. I just need a decent paying job so I can get both for the heck of it.

edit: Just checked SiSoftSandra and no go on the VMX. Spec code matches the Intel graphic but apparently no dice. Now that I know it's not the mobo hampering me it makes me want to go with the 9450.

Breadfan

That sucks man. What kinda mobo you running?

Don't forget that both newegg and TigerDirect.com are running daily specials on everything and lots have FREE shipping too.

Since you are waiting on a gig and still on a 775 mobo, I would try and get by with the cheapest you can so you can study up and then when the i7's come down (hopefully soon) you can grab one of those if that's what you are after. no use and spending all your hard earned bread on obsolete technology. just my .02 though.

if you can't get either, there is always testout for the labsims. They are excellent.

MentholMoose

Hypntick wrote: »

Yep spec code is the first one. So i'm thinking i'm being limited by my mobo on that front. Using Win 7 x64 Ult myself so it's a RAM hog. I've turned off everything I can turn off. I need to figure out if I am being limited by my mobo because if that's the case i'll just save up a bit longer and opt for the AMD 6 core and mobo that I know can run 64 bit guest on VM. Gonna try and update the bios here in a bit to see what that does for me, if anything. I just need a decent paying job so I can get both for the heck of it.

edit: Just checked SiSoftSandra and no go on the VMX. Spec code matches the Intel graphic but apparently no dice. Now that I know it's not the mobo hampering me it makes me want to go with the 9450.

Did you update the motherboard BIOS, check the BIOS options, or open a support ticket with the motherboard manufacturer?

Hypntick

MentholMoose wrote: »

Did you update the motherboard BIOS, check the BIOS options, or open a support ticket with the motherboard manufacturer?

Bios has been updated, nothing in the options for VMX or any other virtualization type options. As far as support ticket, I have not, had a hard enough time finding it on their website in the first place.

MentholMoose

Hypntick wrote: »

Bios has been updated, nothing in the options for VMX or any other virtualization type options. As far as support ticket, I have not, had a hard enough time finding it on their website in the first place.

That's really strange, who is the mobo manufacturer? I'd think that any mobo that supports a (relatively) newer CPU like the E7400 would support VT. I know that some newer laptops don't have the option, but I haven't heard about desktop mobos that don't. Anyway, contact the manufacturer... you might have to call since email support is horrible for some of these companies.

If this turns out to be fruitless, I think it is worthwhile to just replace the motherboard to one that supports VT. There are motherboards from major manufacturers, like Intel, Gigabyte, and Asus, for example, that definitely support VT and cost well under $100. You could probably also sell your existing motherboard for a few bucks on eBay.

dpoland

"I have priced out a 6 core AMD system with 16 GB of DDR3 for around 850 bucks. "

You mind posting the specs? Or newegg wishlist if you built it there?

Hypntick

dpoland wrote: »

"I have priced out a 6 core AMD system with 16 GB of DDR3 for around 850 bucks. "

You mind posting the specs? Or newegg wishlist if you built it there?

Not at all, I just did the quick math it's closer to 800 or so. Although i'd probably go a bit more on the PSU just for the sake of reliability.

Ram - Newegg.com - G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 16GB (4 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1066 (PC3 8500) Desktop Memory Model F3-8500CL7Q-16GBRL

Combo mobo, CPU and vid card - PortaTech.com - Motherboard Combo w/ AMD Phenom II X6 1090T 3.2GHz - I choose the highest CPU option, the 4th mobo from the left and 600 watt PSU

Case - Newegg.com - SILVERSTONE SUGO SG02-BF Black ABS / SECC Steel MicroATX Desktop Computer Case

KVM as this is going to be on my desk if I buy - Newegg.com - Rosewill RKV-2U 2 Port Slim Palmtop USB KVM Switch w/ Audio & Mic/ Black Shell

HDD - Western Digital WD20EADS

and last but not least standard cd/dvd combo - Lite On IHAP122-04 Black IDE Dual Layer 22X DVDRW OEM at 3B Tech - Buy computer parts, notebooks, desktops, & home electronics

Could probably go cheaper on some of those items, I also know the RAM isn't super high speed, depends on what you want to spend. I think for 1k shipped you could improve on a few things i've got here and have a pretty respectable build for VMs etc. If I got tired of the onboard video as well I could probably throw in a semi-decent card and use it for lite gaming. I like the small form factor, always wanted one of those little LAN party cases to drag around.

DaeleshThar

Hypntick wrote: »

Not at all, I just did the quick math it's closer to 800 or so. Although i'd probably go a bit more on the PSU just for the sake of reliability.

Ram - Newegg.com - G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 16GB (4 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1066 (PC3 8500) Desktop Memory Model F3-8500CL7Q-16GBRL

Combo mobo, CPU and vid card - PortaTech.com - Motherboard Combo w/ AMD Phenom II X6 1090T 3.2GHz - I choose the highest CPU option, the 4th mobo from the left and 600 watt PSU

Case - Newegg.com - SILVERSTONE SUGO SG02-BF Black ABS / SECC Steel MicroATX Desktop Computer Case

KVM as this is going to be on my desk if I buy - Newegg.com - Rosewill RKV-2U 2 Port Slim Palmtop USB KVM Switch w/ Audio & Mic/ Black Shell

HDD - Western Digital WD20EADS

and last but not least standard cd/dvd combo - Lite On IHAP122-04 Black IDE Dual Layer 22X DVDRW OEM at 3B Tech - Buy computer parts, notebooks, desktops, & home electronics

Could probably go cheaper on some of those items, I also know the RAM isn't super high speed, depends on what you want to spend. I think for 1k shipped you could improve on a few things i've got here and have a pretty respectable build for VMs etc. If I got tired of the onboard video as well I could probably throw in a semi-decent card and use it for lite gaming. I like the small form factor, always wanted one of those little LAN party cases to drag around.

For a dedicated VM server, I'd go less on CPU and more on disk drives. That should be more of a bottleneck in system performance. 6 cores at 3.2ghz, 16gb of ram but only a single hard drive? The green drives are also weak when it comes to I/O performance, I'd probably go with a higher performing drive(s).

Example of performance 1TB WD Black versus 2TB WD Green;

SR's Test Gamut v4 - 2 Devices Go Head-To-Head

bmcdevitt

DaeleshThar wrote: »

For a dedicated VM server, I'd go less on CPU and more on disk drives. That should be more of a bottleneck in system performance. 6 cores at 3.2ghz, 16gb of ram but only a single hard drive? The green drives are also weak when it comes to I/O performance, I'd probably go with a higher performing drive(s).

Example of performance 1TB WD Black versus 2TB WD Green;

SR's Test Gamut v4 - 2 Devices Go Head-To-Head

agreed, deffinately need a higher I/O, and i thats alot of memory but it isnt that fast compaired to
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231314&cm_re=g._skill-_-20-231-314-_-Product

mabye you could buy 2 sets of that? you wouldnt have to pay much more.... it would make a big diffrence, btw with gskill, i have had bad experiences, i bought the RAM from them before and had to deal with RMA, but at least they all have lifetime warrenty's so its all good.

Hypntick

bmcdevitt wrote: »

agreed, deffinately need a higher I/O, and i thats alot of memory but it isnt that fast compaired to
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231314&cm_re=g._skill-_-20-231-314-_-Product

mabye you could buy 2 sets of that? you wouldnt have to pay much more.... it would make a big diffrence, btw with gskill, i have had bad experiences, i bought the RAM from them before and had to deal with RMA, but at least they all have lifetime warrenty's so its all good.

Yeah this was more of a quick and dirty type thing I did the other day just to see the general ballpark I would be in. I think though for even just a little more investment putting it in the 1k range you could have a few higher speed HDDs and faster RAM. If I were to commit to a purchase it would most certainly be a bit better thought out and planned.

Sounds Good

i'm kind of in the same boat as well (starting to study for MCITP:EA) and am going to need to build a new computer. just have a few questions.

how big of a HDD would you guys recommend? what would you guys think about a 64gb or 128gb SSD as opposed to a traditional HDD?

is there a reason to get a htpc case as opposed to a traditional case?

why do you need a KVM switch?

thanks

dpoland

How does this sound?

2.8ghz 6-core amd phenom - Newegg.com - AMD Phenom II X6 1055T Thuban 2.8GHz 6 x 512KB L2 Cache 6MB L3 Cache Socket AM3 125W Six-Core Desktop Processor HDT55TFBGRBOX
2 x 500gig 6gb/s sata drivers - WD black?
2 x 4gb - Newegg.com - G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL9D-8GBRL

is 8gb enough? or should I really go for 16gb ram? I really want to keep budget down.

Thinking this MOBO:
Newegg.com - ASRock 880G EXTREME3 AM3 AMD 880G HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard

500w PSU enough? or should I go for 650-700 range?

dpoland

Oh and, could I also get away with 4x core instead of a 6? I could shave about 60 bucks going down to 4core instead of 6core.

Repo Man

Sounds Good wrote: »

i'm kind of in the same boat as well (starting to study for MCITP:EA) and am going to need to build a new computer. just have a few questions.

how big of a HDD would you guys recommend? what would you guys think about a 64gb or 128gb SSD as opposed to a traditional HDD?

is there a reason to get a htpc case as opposed to a traditional case?

why do you need a KVM switch?

thanks

I just ordered a new machine and went for the 128 GB SSD drive. I'll let you know my thoughts in a few weeks when I get it if you need input.

Hypntick

Sounds Good wrote: »

i'm kind of in the same boat as well (starting to study for MCITP:EA) and am going to need to build a new computer. just have a few questions.

how big of a HDD would you guys recommend? what would you guys think about a 64gb or 128gb SSD as opposed to a traditional HDD?

is there a reason to get a htpc case as opposed to a traditional case?

why do you need a KVM switch?

thanks

Well I need a KVM so I don't have to switch back and forth between hooking cables up. Even if i'm using remote desktop to log into the VMs if I ever wanted to do something other than the VMs it'd be a pain to switch cables out. At least with my desk setup. Ideally i'd like to get a second monitor just for the heck of it, still running a 17 inch CRT here.

Hypntick

dpoland wrote: »

How does this sound?

is 8gb enough? or should I really go for 16gb ram? I really want to keep budget down.

Thinking this MOBO:
Newegg.com - ASRock 880G EXTREME3 AM3 AMD 880G HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard

500w PSU enough? or should I go for 650-700 range?

Sorry for the double-post. As for the 8gb, depends on how many VMs you're running and what your base OS is going to be. Right now i've got 2 DCs running just standard 08 at 768 MB of RAM and a pair of 32 bit 7 clients at 1 GB each for user systems to test user accounts. All of this is running on top of a x64 7 ultimate install and i'm just about maxed on my 6 GB. So take what you will from that.

dpoland

I think I worked it out so I could squeeze the extra 8gb and 6 core in under budget. I forgot I had a lcd and case at my parents house. that shaves off 220.00 to the build.

bmcdevitt

Sounds Good wrote: »

i'm kind of in the same boat as well (starting to study for MCITP:EA) and am going to need to build a new computer. just have a few questions.

how big of a HDD would you guys recommend? what would you guys think about a 64gb or 128gb SSD as opposed to a traditional HDD?

is there a reason to get a htpc case as opposed to a traditional case?

why do you need a KVM switch?

thanks

a 128 SSD runs around 250-300$, with that you could buy like 4 500GIG, and have like 7x more storage and places to spread out your vm's btw... SSD has extremely high read speads, but write speeds arent impressive at all. but make sure its 7200 rpm, sata.......you dont really need that much storage for studying; you really only need like 500Gig at most... its just good to spread it all out for much better I/O, besides you dont really need an SSD for practising, its not like your VM's are running programs and pulling alot of data. i just started my first book 2 days ago and im having no trouble with speed at all.

kvm switch? not sure why you would need one either....

im new to SA stuff, but ive built many pc's

Sounds Good

bmcdevitt wrote: »

a 128 SSD runs around 250-300$, with that you could buy like 4 500GIG, and have like 7x more storage and places to spread out your vm's btw... SSD has extremely high read speads, but write speeds arent impressive at all. but make sure its 7200 rpm, sata.......you dont really need that much storage for studying; you really only need like 500Gig at most... its just good to spread it all out for much better I/O, besides you dont really need an SSD for practising, its not like your VM's are running programs and pulling alot of data. i just started my first book 2 days ago and im having no trouble with speed at all.

kvm switch? not sure why you would need one either....

im new to SA stuff, but ive built many pc's

well i was thinking about maybe using it as my new main pc as well. is that a problem? i'd have extra storage with additional HDDs.

MentholMoose

bmcdevitt wrote: »

SSD has extremely high read speads, but write speeds arent impressive at all.

There are pros and cons to using an SSD, but this is just wrong, unless you aren't impressed by 100x the performance.
Bench - SSD - AnandTech :: Your Source for Hardware Analysis and News

The difference for sequential read/write is not as dramatic, but that is useless when running VMs, what matters the most for running VMs is random performance.

bmcdevitt

MentholMoose wrote: »

There are pros and cons to using an SSD, but this is just wrong, unless you aren't impressed by 100x the performance.
Bench - SSD - AnandTech :: Your Source for Hardware Analysis and News

The difference for sequential read/write is not as dramatic, but that is useless when running VMs, what matters the most for running VMs is random performance.

i ran a benchmark with ubuntu on my SSD compaired to my HDD's and the write speed is half of what my slowest HDD's write speed was. im not sure what you mean by "this is just wrong"

bmcdevitt

Sounds Good wrote: »

well i was thinking about maybe using it as my new main pc as well. is that a problem? i'd have extra storage with additional HDDs.

not at all, thats how i made my last build, plenty of extra storage with HDDS, i put my windows 7 pro on a 1tb HDD, and i have my server on my one 500gig and i spread the vm's accross that one and my other 500gig.... i use my 30 gig SSD for games.

than obviously when you start your computer up it will ask you if you want to boot up windows server 2008, or windows 7, or whatever else you might have on there (windows of coarse)

i saw you mentioned if 500watt was enough, if your running alot of HDD's and if you get a decent graphics card it will suck alot of power combined with whatever you get in your bays..., id go with like 650-700 just to be safe, its not too much more money, and it will deffinately be stable, i think i have a 750 in mine or a 800, i forget, but i have a pritty bulky graphics card and all of those HDD's....

MentholMoose

bmcdevitt wrote: »

i ran a benchmark with ubuntu on my SSD compaired to my HDD's and the write speed is half of what my slowest HDD's write speed was. im not sure what you mean by "this is just wrong"

If you check the link I posted, you will find many benchmarks that clearly demonstrate the superiority of SSDs. With the right configuration, an SSD will destroy even the best spindle-based hard drive in every benchmark. Random read/writes are literally 100 times faster with an SSD, whereas sequential read/writes are only 2-5 times faster. For VMs, random performance is the main concern.

If you are not seeing good performance, then there is a problem with your system or configuration. Since you're using Linux, TRIM may not be enabled (this requires the right kernel as well as the right filesystem), or the partition may not be aligned. Performance with some older SSDs can suffer with either of these issues.

bmcdevitt

MentholMoose wrote: »

If you check the link I posted, you will find many benchmarks that clearly demonstrate the superiority of SSDs. With the right configuration, an SSD will destroy even the best spindle-based hard drive in every benchmark. Random read/writes are literally 100 times faster with an SSD, whereas sequential read/writes are only 2-5 times faster. For VMs, random performance is the main concern.

If you are not seeing good performance, then there is a problem with your system or configuration. Since you're using Linux, TRIM may not be enabled (this requires the right kernel as well as the right filesystem), or the partition may not be aligned. Performance with some older SSDs can suffer with either of these issues.

i never said they arent superior, i do agree about that, they do have advantages and disadvantages... obvioulsy the price and as you can see he has a budget..., and obviously the storage space, and i wasnt running the SSD with linux, i just benchmarked it with linux, i was runnning linux off of a HDD, my only real point is that, for a practice build, with VM's HDD's will easily do more than enough, and be fast.

SSD's will drop alot in price the next 2 years, right now its not worth it to me to invest in them atm, but thats just my 1 cent lol...

unless you have plenty of money to go around, in that case, throw some my way

Cisco Inferno

go with two sets of these
Newegg.com - G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL9D-8GBRL

ddr3 LOVES bandwidth over timings.

Hypntick

Slight update to this thread. I've been doing a little bit more poking around, still trying to settle on what to build. Going to set aside some of my financial aid from WGU to put together something. As the track i'm tacking also has CCENT and I have a couple of 2950s and planning on getting a few routers as well I was thinking a actual rack mounted server. So a quick check on ebay and I spy this - Dell PowerEdge 2850 Server 4 GB 2x3.6GHz 3x73GB 10K - eBay (item 160527886360 end time Feb-04-11 12:34:59 PST)
Now i'm thinking of picking up a pair of these and invest in additional RAM and come out around the 900-1000 price point I was looking at. I wonder if this would cover me for VMs and if I could run x64 VMs on the hardware. I'm a little unfamiliar with it. Any ideas or suggestions?

Povilas

Hypntick wrote: »

So a quick check on ebay and I spy this - Dell PowerEdge 2850 Server 4 GB 2x3.6GHz 3x73GB 10K - eBay (item 160527886360 end time Feb-04-11 12:34:59 PST)
Now i'm thinking of picking up a pair of these and invest in additional RAM and come out around the 900-1000 price point I was looking at. I wonder if this would cover me for VMs and if I could run x64 VMs on the hardware. I'm a little unfamiliar with it. Any ideas or suggestions?

Contact seller for exact CPU model. It may be CPU version without Intel VT technology and it would cause problems with VM's.