Contract ended, offered full time with less money

skyline

I have been away for a little while been swamped with work and home life, not leaving much time for anything else. With that said I had a meeting with my Boss that went a little like this.

Boss: Are you happy working here?
Me: Yes
Boss: Great! As you know your contract with us expire a few months ago, and we would like to bring you on board with us full time.
Me: Sounds great.
Boss: From our previous discussion, we are prepared to offer 3wks vacation, benefits, XZY salary (5k less then what I'm making now)
Me: Ok, well I will need some time to discuss this with my wife and think it over.
Boss: No problem, we would like to have your decision by Monday, so that we can get you on the payroll.
Me: Sure thing.

I was in a word disappointed with it all. I am glad they finally got around to offering me full time. They kept telling me they would but then kept pushing the date back. I know they were waiting for Q1 to start. I've given it 24hrs to think about it and let cooler heads prevail. However I don't feel any different. They know what I am making as when the initial discussion came up months ago they asked me and I told them. I didn't really care as I knew what my minimum $$$ was and didn't think they would come in under what I am currently making.

I have been here for 9months now on a initial 6month to hire contract. So they know the work I do and the work ethic. I have discussed this with my wife and I last night and the general conesus is do I want to stay? I am 50/50. I updated my resume last night and sent out a few, received a call back this morning for an interview next week.

I know business is business and not to let feelings get involved, but **** it! I'm already making below the average salary for a NA but I didn't have a job at the time so I had to take what I could get. Do I counter with a higher offer? (I'm kind of pissed I even have to). It might be time to move on from this position.

TLDR: Contract expired, received full time job offer but for 5k less then current salary

eansdad

What benifits do you get as a contractor vs full time employee? That might be the $5k difference. Also you could bring up the salary difference and see if they atleast bump you to where you were. Also what happens if you don't take it are they going to renew your contract or replace you?

mikej412

skyline wrote: »

Do I counter with a higher offer?

What's the difference in the benefits you'd get as an employee versus what you got as a contractor?

When would you get a salary review?

What's your career progression as an employee?

How long are you prepared to be unemployed if you don't take the job?

tearofs

My suggestion would be take the job AND START LOOKING FOR A NEW ONE NOW!

Paycheck is still paycheck, keep it rolling to make your wife happy while looking for a better one.

Once you found a new one, go talk to your manager again and ask for raise, if he refuse, say goodbye

shednik

What Mike said!

+

What other benefits does the company offer? Tuition Assistance? Training? 401k? etc..

How about growth potential and getting more experience.

You need to look at it more then just the salary, you said lower than the average for an NA? I assume you mean CCNA, averages on websites are skewed and rarely accurate. How much experience do you have now?

skyline

Not sure what the difference is between benefits vs salary. My wife has good benefits with her work so this is kind of a moot point, and I'd rather have the extra $$$ then benefits. Benefits don't pay the mortgage.

Salary review is yearly

No progression, the next move up is my boss's job, hes been here for 10yrs

Unemployed? Not counting on going that route just yet.

What other benefits does the company offer? Tuition Assistance? Training? 401k? None, I've already asked.

cyberguypr

When you say you are making below average salary, do you have hard data to present to him? If you have evidence of similar positions paying more in your region I say print it out and go have a talk with him. If that goes nowhere, take whatever they give you and keep looking. I rather be underpaid that unemployed. At least underpaid helps towards the mortgage.

Pishof

cyberguypr wrote: »

When you say you are making below average salary, do you have hard data to present to him? If you have evidence of similar positions paying more in your region I say print it out and go have a talk with him. If that goes nowhere, take whatever they give you and keep looking. I rather be underpaid that unemployed. At least underpaid helps towards the mortgage.

This. It's don't believe it's wise to pass up an offer at this time. I'd sign on and keep looking if you are unsatisfied. It's much easier to find a job while currently employed than struggle desperate while unemployed.

I think that HR would look favorable upon someone who already has a job as opposed to someone who would take anything and then perhaps bail soon when something better comes along. Also, 3 weeks vacation is nice.

badboyeee

You should bring up that you prefer a higher salary and less benefits. I would take the job regardless but keep looking for another one if the final offer doesn't make you completely happy.

Turgon

skyline wrote: »

I have been away for a little while been swamped with work and home life, not leaving much time for anything else. With that said I had a meeting with my Boss that went a little like this.

Boss: Are you happy working here?
Me: Yes
Boss: Great! As you know your contract with us expire a few months ago, and we would like to bring you on board with us full time.
Me: Sounds great.
Boss: From our previous discussion, we are prepared to offer 3wks vacation, benefits, XZY salary (5k less then what I'm making now)
Me: Ok, well I will need some time to discuss this with my wife and think it over.
Boss: No problem, we would like to have your decision by Monday, so that we can get you on the payroll.
Me: Sure thing.

I was in a word disappointed with it all. I am glad they finally got around to offering me full time. They kept telling me they would but then kept pushing the date back. I know they were waiting for Q1 to start. I've given it 24hrs to think about it and let cooler heads prevail. However I don't feel any different. They know what I am making as when the initial discussion came up months ago they asked me and I told them. I didn't really care as I knew what my minimum $$$ was and didn't think they would come in under what I am currently making.

I have been here for 9months now on a initial 6month to hire contract. So they know the work I do and the work ethic. I have discussed this with my wife and I last night and the general conesus is do I want to stay? I am 50/50. I updated my resume last night and sent out a few, received a call back this morning for an interview next week.

I know business is business and not to let feelings get involved, but **** it! I'm already making below the average salary for a NA but I didn't have a job at the time so I had to take what I could get. Do I counter with a higher offer? (I'm kind of pissed I even have to). It might be time to move on from this position.

TLDR: Contract expired, received full time job offer but for 5k less then current salary

Sounds like the same job on less take home pay to me. In the UK if you quit contracting to go permanent you would take a hit on take home pay. Even so the pay is an issue for you. They want you so now is the time to ask them to up the offer. There is usually room for that. Beyond that its the career prospects. It may be that at this stage in your career the limited opportunities there are tolerable if it at least provides you with credible time on your CV you can leverage to get a better job elsewhere in a year or two. Then again you may need to discuss opportunities to do more and earn more within the company subject to appraisals. It really depends on where you are at career wise.

skyline

Thanks for the insight!

I spoke with my wife again this afternoon and we both agreed that I will accept this offer next week. I can't go unemployed.. However this means that my time here is on the close as I will now be on the hunt for a new job.

With having an interview setup next week, we'll see what happens there.

jtoast

My guess is that $5K drop is designed to offset them having to start paying FICA for you. I know my employer considers FICA as a $5200 benefit and lists it under my total compensation..heh.

Once you're hired you won't be paying self employment taxes and it may even out on a yearly basis. You should run the numbers by an accountant if the ~$300/month drop in salary (after taxes) is that much of an issue.

blargoe

Isn't there a 3rd option - remain as a contractor and renew your term? Counter offer to your current take home pay or maybe slightly less (you're probably not getting paid time off now, so you have to factor that in at least). Also maybe be willing to concede that you don't really need the extra benefits so much... and maybe extending the contract another year or so would be better for everyone, if they're willing to consider that.

ibcritn

Something similar happened to me in the past. I took the job keep looking found a better job and eventually landed a job making about 35% more....you have a good plan.

Try to bump it up, but take it either way and just move on once you find another good role.

OoteR

jtoast wrote: »

My guess is that $5K drop is designed to offset them having to start paying FICA for you. I know my employer considers FICA as a $5200 benefit and lists it under my total compensation..heh.

Once you're hired you won't be paying self employment taxes and it may even out on a yearly basis. You should run the numbers by an accountant if the ~$300/month drop in salary (after taxes) is that much of an issue.

His profile says he's in toronto..

5k in beni's in canada would be some crazy beni's.. Something like the drug coverage of kings.. Or just the 3 weeks vacation..

I would expect pay to drop from a contractor -> full time position.. normally contract will pay a premium because the work is temporary and that is what i will take to get someone to do the work..

blargoe

I was once told to expect benefits overhead to count approximately 35% above the actual base salary (this would include vacation and sick days, 401(k) match, paid training, health benefits, and any other incidentals that your company offers.

Definately find out what else you might be giving up for the $5K difference. Maybe see to it that you get a paid training per year... that is worth $3K or so by itself and you get to take that with you when you leave, for example.

shednik

blargoe wrote: »

I was once told to expect benefits overhead to count approximately 35% above the actual base salary (this would include vacation and sick days, 401(k) match, paid training, health benefits, and any other incidentals that your company offers.

Definately find out what else you might be giving up for the $5K difference. Maybe see to it that you get a paid training per year... that is worth $3K or so by itself and you get to take that with you when you leave, for example.

I agree with this completely.

I personally think I'm underpaid for my responsibilities, but I also have tuition assistance up to 7k/year, last year I attended two training courses one cisco and one checkpoint, was able to purchase some CBT Nuggets videos and I also was allowed to attend Cisco Live. I know you said some of the extra benefits aren't there already but like others have said what about vacation and training. My boss already told me he'd pay for me to get my CCIE if I want, which I'm considering once I get my CCNP and CCNP Security.

just my thoughts....

powerfool

Unless you are on contract as a W2 employee (regular employee) of a recruiting company, I would expect less pay, as others have indicated. $5k is a pretty low drop for getting vacation and FICA covered, by itself. I would be pretty disappointed about not getting tuition reimbursement, though; it isn't the end of the world, but it is something of value and shows their level of commitment and loyalty.

I would still try to get more money from them, though. See if you can get that $5k back, maybe you will walk away with $2k more... or maybe nothing... but they usually wouldn't retract an offer for negotiating.

skyline

I have till tomorrow to accept this purposed offer and I do intend to. I am taking this offer on face value, I don't care about 3wks vacation, or the benefit pkg. I asked about reimbursement for training (we just put in a new Juniper firewall) and the request was denied.

All in all its not a bad place to work, enjoy coming in *sometimes* However with the $$$ it is THE deciding factor. Yes I know some people will say (as my some of my family has expressed concerns) its only $5k decrease and you'll get back in your next raise(s). I don't care, that's less money on my paycheque right now and at the end of the day that is all the matters. So I will be moving on, it will just be a matter of when.

Yes, I would stay if they paid me what I am making now. With that I have an interview this week *here's hoping it goes well*

Turgon

skyline wrote: »

I have till tomorrow to accept this purposed offer and I do intend to. I am taking this offer on face value, I don't care about 3wks vacation, or the benefit pkg. I asked about reimbursement for training (we just put in a new Juniper firewall) and the request was denied.

All in all its not a bad place to work, enjoy coming in *sometimes* However with the $$$ it is THE deciding factor. Yes I know some people will say (as my some of my family has expressed concerns) its only $5k decrease and you'll get back in your next raise(s). I don't care, that's less money on my paycheque right now and at the end of the day that is all the matters. So I will be moving on, it will just be a matter of when.

Yes, I would stay if they paid me what I am making now. With that I have an interview this week *here's hoping it goes well*

I dont understand. Are you saying you will accept this offer or decline?

badboyeee

Sounds like he's saying he will accept but continue looking for other jobs?

Goodluck OP!

SteveLord

I am sure many of us would love the ability to trade off some benefits particularly useless or less useful for some extra cash.

But...most of the time it's 1 standard for all. Better get use to it.

skyline

I am going to take the offer, while I look for another job.

laptop

skyline wrote: »

I am going to take the offer, while I look for another job.

Keep your job. Keep applying. It's hard to go to interviews if you work Mon-Fri.

I live in the same city as you. What's your position? Crappy IT jobs here. Can't find any high paying jobs although I graduated in 2009 when the economy screwed up. Maybe you can give me advice about job hunting since we live in the same city.