Passed - 640-802
eMeS
Member Posts: 1,875 ■■■■■■■■■□
in CCNA & CCENT
Today I took and passed 640-802 with an 898. Here's my thoughts on the prep, exam, labs, etc...:
Background
I was recently asked by a company that I do some work with to audit their standard CCNA class. This is a large training company that is a well known Cisco Learning Partner. About two weeks ago I attended their 5-day class, which ran from 8am to 8pm, M-F. I decided that I would do this from the perspective of a real student who was intending to take and pass the exam.
My Networking Background
I do not claim to have tons of specific networking experience; my career has mostly involved broad exposure to many aspects of IT, rather than specialization in one area. Although I do have a deep technical background that spans many areas, I would not in any way say that my experience is deepest in networking. However, I do have significant experience in networking, including:
- Operational support of SNA networks spanning from the late 80's to late 90's. For those of you who are unfamiliar, SNA is an IBM proprietary packet switched network that is common in mainframe environments.
- Operational support and design of Novell Netware LANs. I had prior experience in the early to mid 90's with Network 3.12 and Netware 4.x. This was at the time an "add-on" job responsibility, as LANs at the time were not exactly what they are today. I was a CNE in versions 3 and 4.
- Participation in a large project to transition a large SNA network to a primarily IP-based network in the mid-90's.
- Management of and participation in various other projects that involved, but were not exclusively dedicated to, aspects of networking.
- Two graduate-level networking classes at Harvard, within the last 7 years. These were primarily theory-based.
Perhaps more experience in this area than I generally take credit for, but my day-to-day experience is not and has not involved operational network administration.
My Preparation for the 640-802
I attended the aforementioned class, pretty much devoting an entire week to the material. This was not a **** class in any way. It involved mostly hands-on work for 12 hours each day, with some lectures sprinkled in.
I read the course material, which was complete and very helpful before the class. I spent 60+ hours working on the course material and labs. The course I attended also included some videos for self-paced learning that I was unable to use, as well as Kaplan self-test software that I never even opened.
The instructor that I had for the class was excellent.
I also read the Odom book that is for ICND1 and ICND2.
The class I attended included lab hours for use following the class, but I didn't use them, opting instead to configure a lab at home exactly like the one in class. I spent some time doing some regular routine activities with this lab.
All told I spent 1 full week in class doing nothing but this, a few days reading the Odom book, and part-time in the evenings 1 week labbing and doing follow-up reading.
My preference is to have a very intensive schedule vs. spreading it over a couple of months, which is how I did this. Total time, between 2 and 3 weeks.
What I knew going in
- General networking trivia - This was about 80% of the test IMO
- How to subnet - I can see where this would be a big problem if someone didn't know how to do this. My approach to subnetting is very graphical, and probably takes me longer than most people, but it works. Subnetting is a lot like riding a bike, once you know it you know it. I verified that I was still able to effectively subnet by going through about 20 questions at subnettingquestions.com . You simply can't be successful on this exam without knowing how to subnet.
My exam experience
The crappy Prometric place nearest me is also a crappy Vue place. I arrived this morning, signed in, and had my picture taken. The test started and the first question was a sim. I was a little worried because it took me a little over 10 minutes to do it.
Overall, I took all but 30 seconds of the allotted time to do the exam, which is typical for me on cert exams.
I expected there to be much more of a focus on things that I would think a junior-level network tech would do in their everyday work. Like lots of checking the status of things, maybe verifying some errors, etc.. It really wasn't that at all. There were some of these things, but it seemed to me that most of the questions were about knowing trivial things about networking.
Two of the sims I felt were very realistic in terms of what a CCNA-level person would be doing in their job. However, one of the sims was completely off the mark in terms of reality, and I think encouraged bad practice in terms of security. I can't say more because of the NDA, but I think they really need to rethink some of this and align it a little better with reality.
One Exam or Two Exam Approach?
I had a voucher and it didn't matter whether I passed or failed, so I opted for the one exam approach. I'm glad I did.
Honestly, based on what I've read here I was expecting something much more difficult. It was actually a fairly easy exam, if you are adequately prepared.
I can't imagine what would be the point of breaking this into two exams, and I would recommend that anyone considering getting the CCNA go for the one exam approach and just get it over with. Seems to me that all the two exam approach does is prolong the pain.
Labs
Most of the lab that are described and asked about here are way overkill for this exam. I think you guys would do yourselves a favor by focusing your labs on what you really need to know. Having practical experience is what you want most, and I can definitely see having a tricked out lab for that, but for the most part it's best to focus your exam activities on what you need to get through the exam. Scope control.
In class we had a lab that had 2 switches, 3 routers and a terminal server. The switches were 2950's and the routers were 2610xm's.
I've gathered a ton of equipment over the years, so at home I configured a setup exactly like we had in class. I used:
-1 2511
-3x2620xm's
-2 2950 12's
-A couple of spare pc's.
Seriously, if you're doing the CCNA do yourself a favor and make your lab as simple as possible. I wouldn't worry too much about specific IOS's or the amount of memory etc.., just get relatively recent gear with a relatively recent IOS and go from there. I wouldn't even worry about Frame Relay. I also would look to get 12 port switches vs 24 or 48 port models.
My recommendation to others is that you actually get the physical equipment vs. using an emulator. There's nothing quite like actually touching the equipment. However, keep in mind that the CCNA can be done with a very limited set of equipment if necessary. In fact, I think this could be minimally done with one switch and one router.
How I scored
I did worst on NAT and ACLs. Since I only lightly practiced this, I was really working hard to pull that stuff from memory.
How this exam compares to other exams
The key to this exam is adequate preparation. With adequate preparation it seems straightforward and easy. IMO, this was much easier than many exams I've taken, but, without spending the time to prepare it would have been impossible.
Next Steps
I'm thinking that the work I did to knock out the CCNA would prepare me for the CCDA. It's hard to tell, but I would have to think that the CCDA would be relatively easy to knock out after this...does anyone have any thoughts here?
I have no intention of moving into networking. I might pursue some additional Cisco certs, if it makes sense from an experience and time-commitment perspective, but I'm not sure at this point.
MS
Background
I was recently asked by a company that I do some work with to audit their standard CCNA class. This is a large training company that is a well known Cisco Learning Partner. About two weeks ago I attended their 5-day class, which ran from 8am to 8pm, M-F. I decided that I would do this from the perspective of a real student who was intending to take and pass the exam.
My Networking Background
I do not claim to have tons of specific networking experience; my career has mostly involved broad exposure to many aspects of IT, rather than specialization in one area. Although I do have a deep technical background that spans many areas, I would not in any way say that my experience is deepest in networking. However, I do have significant experience in networking, including:
- Operational support of SNA networks spanning from the late 80's to late 90's. For those of you who are unfamiliar, SNA is an IBM proprietary packet switched network that is common in mainframe environments.
- Operational support and design of Novell Netware LANs. I had prior experience in the early to mid 90's with Network 3.12 and Netware 4.x. This was at the time an "add-on" job responsibility, as LANs at the time were not exactly what they are today. I was a CNE in versions 3 and 4.
- Participation in a large project to transition a large SNA network to a primarily IP-based network in the mid-90's.
- Management of and participation in various other projects that involved, but were not exclusively dedicated to, aspects of networking.
- Two graduate-level networking classes at Harvard, within the last 7 years. These were primarily theory-based.
Perhaps more experience in this area than I generally take credit for, but my day-to-day experience is not and has not involved operational network administration.
My Preparation for the 640-802
I attended the aforementioned class, pretty much devoting an entire week to the material. This was not a **** class in any way. It involved mostly hands-on work for 12 hours each day, with some lectures sprinkled in.
I read the course material, which was complete and very helpful before the class. I spent 60+ hours working on the course material and labs. The course I attended also included some videos for self-paced learning that I was unable to use, as well as Kaplan self-test software that I never even opened.
The instructor that I had for the class was excellent.
I also read the Odom book that is for ICND1 and ICND2.
The class I attended included lab hours for use following the class, but I didn't use them, opting instead to configure a lab at home exactly like the one in class. I spent some time doing some regular routine activities with this lab.
All told I spent 1 full week in class doing nothing but this, a few days reading the Odom book, and part-time in the evenings 1 week labbing and doing follow-up reading.
My preference is to have a very intensive schedule vs. spreading it over a couple of months, which is how I did this. Total time, between 2 and 3 weeks.
What I knew going in
- General networking trivia - This was about 80% of the test IMO
- How to subnet - I can see where this would be a big problem if someone didn't know how to do this. My approach to subnetting is very graphical, and probably takes me longer than most people, but it works. Subnetting is a lot like riding a bike, once you know it you know it. I verified that I was still able to effectively subnet by going through about 20 questions at subnettingquestions.com . You simply can't be successful on this exam without knowing how to subnet.
My exam experience
The crappy Prometric place nearest me is also a crappy Vue place. I arrived this morning, signed in, and had my picture taken. The test started and the first question was a sim. I was a little worried because it took me a little over 10 minutes to do it.
Overall, I took all but 30 seconds of the allotted time to do the exam, which is typical for me on cert exams.
I expected there to be much more of a focus on things that I would think a junior-level network tech would do in their everyday work. Like lots of checking the status of things, maybe verifying some errors, etc.. It really wasn't that at all. There were some of these things, but it seemed to me that most of the questions were about knowing trivial things about networking.
Two of the sims I felt were very realistic in terms of what a CCNA-level person would be doing in their job. However, one of the sims was completely off the mark in terms of reality, and I think encouraged bad practice in terms of security. I can't say more because of the NDA, but I think they really need to rethink some of this and align it a little better with reality.
One Exam or Two Exam Approach?
I had a voucher and it didn't matter whether I passed or failed, so I opted for the one exam approach. I'm glad I did.
Honestly, based on what I've read here I was expecting something much more difficult. It was actually a fairly easy exam, if you are adequately prepared.
I can't imagine what would be the point of breaking this into two exams, and I would recommend that anyone considering getting the CCNA go for the one exam approach and just get it over with. Seems to me that all the two exam approach does is prolong the pain.
Labs
Most of the lab that are described and asked about here are way overkill for this exam. I think you guys would do yourselves a favor by focusing your labs on what you really need to know. Having practical experience is what you want most, and I can definitely see having a tricked out lab for that, but for the most part it's best to focus your exam activities on what you need to get through the exam. Scope control.
In class we had a lab that had 2 switches, 3 routers and a terminal server. The switches were 2950's and the routers were 2610xm's.
I've gathered a ton of equipment over the years, so at home I configured a setup exactly like we had in class. I used:
-1 2511
-3x2620xm's
-2 2950 12's
-A couple of spare pc's.
Seriously, if you're doing the CCNA do yourself a favor and make your lab as simple as possible. I wouldn't worry too much about specific IOS's or the amount of memory etc.., just get relatively recent gear with a relatively recent IOS and go from there. I wouldn't even worry about Frame Relay. I also would look to get 12 port switches vs 24 or 48 port models.
My recommendation to others is that you actually get the physical equipment vs. using an emulator. There's nothing quite like actually touching the equipment. However, keep in mind that the CCNA can be done with a very limited set of equipment if necessary. In fact, I think this could be minimally done with one switch and one router.
How I scored
I did worst on NAT and ACLs. Since I only lightly practiced this, I was really working hard to pull that stuff from memory.
How this exam compares to other exams
The key to this exam is adequate preparation. With adequate preparation it seems straightforward and easy. IMO, this was much easier than many exams I've taken, but, without spending the time to prepare it would have been impossible.
Next Steps
I'm thinking that the work I did to knock out the CCNA would prepare me for the CCDA. It's hard to tell, but I would have to think that the CCDA would be relatively easy to knock out after this...does anyone have any thoughts here?
I have no intention of moving into networking. I might pursue some additional Cisco certs, if it makes sense from an experience and time-commitment perspective, but I'm not sure at this point.
MS
Comments
-
impz
Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 113 ■■■□□□□□□□
Hmm very interesting, thanks for the info and congrats on the pass.
I was actually thinking of doing the 1 exam route instead of the originally planned, 2 exam route because of the wealth of resources that i had for the 1 exam route (mainly practice questions). -
eMeS
Member Posts: 1,875 ■■■■■■■■■□
Hmm very interesting, thanks for the info and congrats on the pass.
I was actually thinking of doing the 1 exam route instead of the originally planned, 2 exam route because of the wealth of resources that i had for the 1 exam route (mainly practice questions).
I'd say go the 1 exam route. After I left the exam today all I could think was what they would possibly do to break this into 2 exams??? Seems like there would be a ton of repeat material between the 2 exams.
MS -
dynamik
Banned Posts: 12,312 ■■■■■■■■■□
I'd say go the 1 exam route. After I left the exam today all I could think was what they would possibly do to break this into 2 exams??? Seems like there would be a ton of repeat material between the 2 exams.
MS
Congrats on the pass.
I wonder if the ICND2 exam is more difficult than the single exam; it seems like yours got watered down with CCENT material (which is a pretty easy exam). I didn't think ICND2 was bad, but it seemed to be a bit more challenging than what you're describing.
It's usually recommended to have CCNP-level switching knowledge prior to doing the CCDA, so you might want to pick up a book and familiarize yourself with those concepts in advance. That one's on my to-do list as well. -
eMeS
Member Posts: 1,875 ■■■■■■■■■□
I wonder if the ICND2 exam is more difficult than the single exam; it seems like yours got watered down with CCENT material (which is a pretty easy exam). I didn't think ICND2 was bad, but it seemed to be a bit more challenging than what you're describing.
That's interesting...so the two exam approach might be harder....
Are there sims in both of the two-part exams? I'm too lazy to look, and I have to leave to go buy some diced tomatoes.
MS -
impz
Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 113 ■■■□□□□□□□
I might really do the 1 exam route cuz all the fun "labbing" stuff is on the ICND2 portion. the most exciting thing in ICND1 was configuring RIPv2I'd say go the 1 exam route. After I left the exam today all I could think was what they would possibly do to break this into 2 exams??? Seems like there would be a ton of repeat material between the 2 exams.
MS
EDIT: ye, you get sims in both icnd1 and icnd2 -
networker050184
Mod Posts: 11,962 Mod
Congrats man. I really share your opinion on the whole thing.
I don't really see a point in breaking it in to two exams. Its basic entry level stuff here. Although it might be a lot for someone to soak up from ground zero, its not daunting enough to break into two separate tests.
The CCNA consists of a lot of trivial network information that makes studying a must like you say. Its not hard material, just stuff you will forget because its not needed to run a network day to day. Things like Ethernet header formats etc. I had been working with Cisco gear for about five years when I did the exam, but I definitely couldn't have gone in and passed without some dedicated study time on the Odom books.An expert is a man who has made all the mistakes which can be made. -
brad-
Member Posts: 1,218
Great post, thanks for telling us about your experience.
Im still going to stick with the 2 exam approach just because my starting level is much lower than yours. I have 'reasonable' windows network experience, but my baseline with cisco was zero before a couple weeks ago...plus i dont know subnetting well yet.
Really appreciate the post. -
Hypntick
Member Posts: 1,451 ■■■■■■□□□□
Great post, thanks for telling us about your experience.
Im still going to stick with the 2 exam approach just because my starting level is much lower than yours. I have 'reasonable' windows network experience, but my baseline with cisco was zero before a couple weeks ago...plus i dont know subnetting well yet.
Really appreciate the post.
Two exam route myself. I knew the basic show commands from my previous job as well as resetting ports on a switch etc. That was about the most config we ever did on them and that wasn't my primary job it was just something I wanted to learn. Had one of our other guys walk me through resetting up a vlan but that's about it. Although so far into my CCENT studies i'm running into a lot of stuff I remember from Net+.WGU BS:IT Completed June 30th 2012.
WGU MS:ISA Completed October 30th 2013. -
eMeS
Member Posts: 1,875 ■■■■■■■■■□
networker050184 wrote: »Congrats man. I really share your opinion on the whole thing.
Thanks. One thing I will say about this exam is that you really do need to understand subnetting to do it.
I'm of the strong opinion that at some point everyone that works in IT, regardless of their role, should develop an understanding of bits, bytes, binary math, and hexadecimal. This exam is the closest that I've seen any cert exam really test those things.
MS -
Certz
Member Posts: 16 ■□□□□□□□□□
eMeS,
I have to agree with you that the CCNA test can be way over the top as far as what people think they need to pass the test. I think some simple equipment would do.
I had taken the CCNA academy training about 8 years ago and landed a job with a networking company in the DFW area and got so busy I never took the test. Then when I did go to take the test 6 months later I didn't know it but they had changed it. I think I failed by one question. I never looked back. Which was a huge mistake because the company I went to work for was setting up Dental networks and my routing stuff was never needed.
Having said all of that was so I could ask you if you would suggest to me what would be an easy minimum setup of hardware that I could get that would handle the Cisco stuff so I could get certified this year. Might could pickup some stuff from that first Saturday flea market in downtown dallas. I've been a few times and they have alot of used networking equipment. I just don't know what to get. I figure a couple of routers and a couple of switches.
I'm kicking around several different certs, security+, VCP4, and maybe CCNA that I may want to tackle within the next 6 months.
I appreciate any help you can be.
Thanks! -
eMeS
Member Posts: 1,875 ■■■■■■■■■□
I had taken the CCNA academy training
It's amazing to me that all of the academy classes that I've seen are spread over two full semesters with labs every week. That really seems like way too much time, but I guess that average person attending those has little to no networking experience....Having said all of that was so I could ask you if you would suggest to me what would be an easy minimum setup of hardware that I could get that would handle the Cisco stuff so I could get certified this year.
Wow, I'm honored that you would ask, but I feel obliged to point out that there's countless more qualified people here to answer that than me.
But since you asked here's what I'd do:
- 2x2950-12 Switches
- 2x26x0xm routers
If I got much over 4 pieces of gear I'd get a terminal server. I have a 2511. Remember to get an Ethernet transceiver. I wouldn't worry too much about IOS versions or the amount of memory that you have for a CCNA lab. Just don't get something that's so far out of date that it's irrelevant, or something that can't hold the IOS you want to run. The equipment I've listed is decent, and would be stuff that you could continue to use if you continued down a Cisco path.
I wouldn't worry about frame relay, other than reading about it. In fact, the instructor the class that I sat said that he thought it would be dropped on the next revision of the material.
If you were really on a budget you could just get the switches and use an emulator for the routers, but I would recommend having the actual equipment.
I'll occasionally watch eBay for auctions that end at weird times. I've picked up a couple of 2950-12 switches for around $12 that way. As others have said, on eBay patience is the key.Might could pickup some stuff from that first Saturday flea market in downtown dallas. I've been a few times and they have alot of used networking equipment. I just don't know what to get. I figure a couple of routers and a couple of switches.
Man, is that thing still happening? It's been a really long time since I've been. In the early 90's I can remember it taking up several city blocks. The last time I went it was much smaller, but still full of interesting finds.
MS -
eMeS
Member Posts: 1,875 ■■■■■■■■■□
It's usually recommended to have CCNP-level switching knowledge prior to doing the CCDA, so you might want to pick up a book and familiarize yourself with those concepts in advance. That one's on my to-do list as well.
I've gone through some of the sample design questions this evening on Cisco's site....it's eerily ITIL-like in that it seems to be asking me more about ways to do things than about the things themselves...
I've had a million people from Cisco in various ITIL classes...I guess something sunk in...
MS -
mikej412
Member Posts: 10,086 ■■■■■■■■■■
Congratulations!!
The single exam option used to be popular when there was a cost savings over the two exam option. But now Cisco has tossed in the CCENT for passing the ICND1 exam and removed the cost saving, so the two exam option may be a good option for an IT noob who needs that extra certification to fill up an additional line on their resume.
I think we have had a couple people in the CCNA Forum do the ICND1 exam for the CCENT and then take the CCNA exam since they did think that would be easier than the ICND2 exam -- and they didn't mind spending the extra money. I would agree that the ICND2 exam is probably "harder" than the CCNA exam since it isn't thinned out with the basic networking trivia from the ICND1 exam topics -- but probably not that much to make it worth the extra $125 to take the CCNA exam after the ICND1 instead of the ICND2 exam.:mike: Cisco Certifications -- Collect the Entire Set! -
Certz
Member Posts: 16 ■□□□□□□□□□
It's amazing to me that all of the academy classes that I've seen are spread over two full semesters with labs every week. That really seems like way too much time, but I guess that average person attending those has little to no networking experience....
Wow, I'm honored that you would ask, but I feel obliged to point out that there's countless more qualified people here to answer that than me.
But since you asked here's what I'd do:
- 2x2950-12 Switches
- 2x26x0xm routers
If I got much over 4 pieces of gear I'd get a terminal server. I have a 2511. Remember to get an Ethernet transceiver. I wouldn't worry too much about IOS versions or the amount of memory that you have for a CCNA lab. Just don't get something that's so far out of date that it's irrelevant, or something that can't hold the IOS you want to run. The equipment I've listed is decent, and would be stuff that you could continue to use if you continued down a Cisco path.
I wouldn't worry about frame relay, other than reading about it. In fact, the instructor the class that I sat said that he thought it would be dropped on the next revision of the material.
If you were really on a budget you could just get the switches and use an emulator for the routers, but I would recommend having the actual equipment.
I'll occasionally watch eBay for auctions that end at weird times. I've picked up a couple of 2950-12 switches for around $12 that way. As others have said, on eBay patience is the key.
Man, is that thing still happening? It's been a really long time since I've been. In the early 90's I can remember it taking up several city blocks. The last time I went it was much smaller, but still full of interesting finds.
MS
Hey, I'm a noob on this site so if I don't get my messages formatted well, oh well, oh well. Yea, I haven't been to the Saturday gig in several years myself. A couple of months ago I was kicking around the idea of going back for my CCNA and I thought of them as a cheapy way to setup a lab. I'm definitely going to check out ebay! $12 is cheapy and I like cheapy. I do appreciate your help. I'm so out of touch with the Cisco stuff, it's sad. I've spent most of my time learning 3D digital xray integrations as my networking has gone down, down, a well, a well. But the dental market has been hit hard by the economy. Time to move to another area.
Thanks You!
Oh and Congrats!!!! on passing your test today I also passed the Network+ today as well. -
Dakinggamer87
Member Posts: 4,016 ■■■■■■■■□□
Congrats on passing your exam!!
*Associate's of Applied Sciences degree in Information Technology-Network Systems Administration
*Bachelor's of Science: Information Technology - Security, Master's of Science: Information Technology - Management
Matthew 6:33 - "Seek the Kingdom of God above all else, and live righteously, and he will give you everything you need."
Certs/Business Licenses In Progress: AWS Solutions Architect, Series 6, Series 63 -
earweed
Member Posts: 5,192 ■■■■■■■■■□
Congrats and an excellent post!
From what you've said here it's making me reconsider taking the 2 exam route. I'm not yet at the point of actually going into studying this yet. Still have to finish WGU (had some issues which screwed me up and I'm having to take an extra term to graduate) but the CCNA is first on my list after graduation. I'm almost done getting my lab together and I like your suggestion of a terminal server and I'm going to get one now as soon as I get my last router this week sometime.No longer work in IT. Play around with stuff sometimes still and fix stuff for friends and relatives. -
BrizoH
Member Posts: 73 ■■■□□□□□□□
Congratulations on the pass!
I totally agree about going the one exam route - it's nowhere near as daunting as some people seem to think -
bertieb
Member Posts: 1,031 ■■■■■■□□□□
Congrats on the pass! I noticed your linkedin updates first
. Wonderful post too, it will be of use to many I'm sure. The trouble with quotes on the internet is that you can never tell if they are genuine - Abraham Lincoln -
Tommy2727
Member Posts: 48 ■■□□□□□□□□
congrats!!!Practice, Practice, and more Practice make Perfection.....
