SWITCH - a small step up?

wbosher

I am looking into studying for the SWITCH exam, and have had a quick look at the CBT Nuggets series. From what I have seen, it looks as though a pretty significant % of the material is just revision of the CCNA material (eg VTP, VLANs, wireless) with a little more info thrown in on these subjects.

Obviously there is a lot of new material there as well, but it looks as though it may not be too difficult if you really know the CCNA stuff. Am I missing something here?

I have to admit that I haven't seen the Cisco Press book yet, so no doubt that will probably blow my whole theory out of the water (not to mention my mind), but has anyone been through this and found that it wasn't really that bigger mountain to climb in comparison with CCNA?

eMeS

I wonder the same thing. Especially because CCNP level switching knowledge is recommended for the CCDA.

What are the significant differences between switching as covered in CCNA material and switching as covered at the CCNP level?

MS

wbosher

There's obviously multi-layer switching which wasn't covered in CCNA, but other than that there are some advances in VLANs and security, more info on redundancy, VACLs and a little on VOIP and QOS, and a bit more which escapes me at the moment.

Like I said, I've only checked out CBT Nuggets so there is likely a whole lot more in the Cisco Press book.

chmorin

wbosher wrote: »

There's obviously multi-layer switching which wasn't covered in CCNA, but other than that there are some advances in VLANs and security, more info on redundancy, VACLs and a little on VOIP and QOS, and a bit more which escapes me at the moment.

Like I said, I've only checked out CBT Nuggets so there is likely a whole lot more in the Cisco Press book.

Don't forget some basic wireless configuration, but yeah you pretty much hit all the high points there. Don't underestimate it though. I'm also not sure how far the CCNA taught things like HSRP and the like (I don't remember it being brought up at all). Those can be quite complex for new people to the subject.

wbosher

HSRP, VRRP and GLBP were not even mentioned on the CCNA, this is one of the new subjects.

I was very surprised how easy it was to get a MLS to do routing! I had this idea in my head that it was going to be really complicated. A couple of commands and BAM, you have a router...sweet.

networker050184

Its a revision and adds more depth. For instance for VLANs you will have to dive into private VLANs, a little bit of theory on VLAN stacks etc. The exam is also heavier on the practical side rather than questions like "what is a VLAN?" from the CCNA. You will have to examine output, put the knowledge to more practical use.

This is from BCMSN experience, but I'm assuming its somewhere along the same lines.

wbosher

Yes, I agree. But if you've studied hard and nailed the concepts and config for CCNA, it doesn't really seem to be a huge jump to learn the new stuff.

Just my opinion, and will probably be proven completely wrong once I actually start studying for real.

stuh84

Yeah as above on the BCMSN experience, for the first few topics I thought I'd bought the wrong book and got a CCNA guide. Some of it is very complex, but a lot is VERY similar to the CCNA I found.

networker050184

wbosher wrote: »

Yes, I agree. But if you've studied hard and nailed the concepts and config for CCNA, it doesn't really seem to be a huge jump to learn the new stuff.

Just my opinion, and will probably be proven completely wrong once I actually start studying for real.

If you studied well for the CCNA, then you will have a good head start, but there is a lot of material that was either lightly brushed over or not touched at all in the CCNA. The questions on the exam is where you will notice the real change. They definitely test your usage of the technology a lot more than the CCNA. The CCNA is like a networking trivia exam in comparison.

wbosher

networker050184 wrote: »

If you studied well for the CCNA, then you will have a good head start, but there is a lot of material that was either lightly brushed over or not touched at all in the CCNA. The questions on the exam is where you will notice the real change. They definitely test your usage of the technology a lot more than the CCNA. The CCNA is like a networking trivia exam in comparison.

Are you saying that it is less theory, and more actual configuration on the exam?

networker050184

wbosher wrote: »

Are you saying that it is less theory, and more actual configuration on the exam?

It has more of the implementation of the technologies and less of the random factoid questions. You will still probably get some of the gimmie questions, but you will likely have more scenario based questions, sims, simlets etc. Its been a while since I took the CCNA or BCMSN, but thats my recollection of it.

eMeS

networker050184 wrote: »

It has more of the implementation of the technologies and less of the random factoid questions.

That sounds exactly like something I'd like to do....anyone can answer trivia questions, would be nice to develop some competency in higher level switching.

MS

ITdude

networker050184 wrote: »

It has more of the implementation of the technologies and less of the random factoid questions. You will still probably get some of the gimmie questions, but you will likely have more scenario based questions, sims, simlets etc. Its been a while since I took the CCNA or BCMSN, but thats my recollection of it.

That would be my take on it too. More practical application type questions and much more in depth coverage of the topics that are carried over from CCNA, with the addition of some new technologies.....

Enjoy!

evasiveink

I just took the Switch test and thought the majority of it was going to be like the CCNA, but with a little more specific information put into then CCNA topics. I will just say I was very wrong. I do this everyday on a 600+ network and I felt like I was ignorant to so many points. All I can really say is that you better remember the specfics of things that you are not used to remembering and know how to setup EVERYTHING! In the CCNA you could be strong in a couple of areas and pass it, but with the CCNP you have to be strong in all points to pass it. All I can say is that I had a very real rude awakening to a test that is made for you to fail. Good luck and I hope at least this helps a little bit.

wbosher

evasiveink wrote: »

I just took the Switch test and thought the majority of it was going to be like the CCNA, but with a little more specific information put into then CCNA topics. I will just say I was very wrong. I do this everyday on a 600+ network and I felt like I was ignorant to so many points. All I can really say is that you better remember the specfics of things that you are not used to remembering and know how to setup EVERYTHING! In the CCNA you could be strong in a couple of areas and pass it, but with the CCNP you have to be strong in all points to pass it. All I can say is that I had a very real rude awakening to a test that is made for you to fail. Good luck and I hope at least this helps a little bit.

I stand corrected.

gorebrush

Think of a CCNA as your "tip of many mountains" exam.

Each CCNP exam takes one mountain, and you go down it deep.

Also - Wireless is still on the SWITCH exam? Ugh.

chmorin

gorebrush wrote: »

Also - Wireless is still on the SWITCH exam? Ugh.

It is not as bad BCMSN was to my knowledge. The SWITCH exam focuses on basic understanding of the wireless concept, and facilitating its use over a campus switched network. Not actual configuration of LWAPs.

I really should take the damn exam, I have read the book, watched the nuggets, and done switching for some time now. I just don't want to get off my CCNP:V track.

ITdude

The CCNP R&S exams should never be taken lightly. They are after all Professional level exams.

Keep this in mind too, the Switch exam (previously the BCMSN) exam is usually considered the "easier" of the NP exams too.

Caveat Emptor.

/usr

I wish I could comment on this from the standpoint of someone who has passed SWITCH, but I'm not quite there yet.

I have, however, been preparing for BCMSN/SWITCH since June of 2009. It's been a long rode with lots of on/off studying. I began picking up the ROUTE material after hearing so many SWITCH horror stories...but I'm determined to get back on the SWITCH track and get this exam under my belt.

That said, the general consensus (here and on the CLN forums) is that SWITCH is the toughest of the three new CCNP exams. Not necessarily due to content, but primarily due to ambiguous questions and some issues with labs crashing. Most people are recommending simultaneous study of ROUTE and SWITCH, with many suggesting ROUTE be taken first.

As far as content goes, it surpasses CCNA level material by leaps and bounds. I felt the same way after I began studying for BCMSN, like there wasn't really that much material added, but as I got deeper into it and did more research on the new focus of the exams, I found otherwise. For example, a lot of the fundamentals that you would assume to find in the ROUTE material, end up showing up in the SWITCH material.

With SWITCH, you're really expected to have a solid understand of enterprise networks. Designing, implementing, troubleshooting, etc. I think this (at least IMO) is the largest difference.

Like I said...take all of this with a grain of salt, as I haven't even attempted SWITCH myself yet, but I've only been hesitant to do so due to everything I've read regarding the exam. Like a previous poster mentioned...I most certainly would not take it for granted, or be deceived into believing that it's not much more difficult than the CCNA level material, like I originally did.

Also, the CBT Nuggets (at least the CCNA/CCNP ones I've used thus far) are notoriously short on detailed content. They make a good introduction to the material, but the Foundation Learning Guide for SWITCH is a definite must read.

Hope this helped a bit!

chmorin

/usr wrote: »

That said, the general consensus (here and on the CLN forums) is that SWITCH is the toughest of the three new CCNP exams.

Where did you get this from? My observations were that ROUTE was harder. It covers more material, in an equal amount of depth. I have heard many more ROUTE pains than SWITCH.

The rest of what you say is very true. Don't approach the SWITCH exam as a small step, it really isn't, and should not be treated like it.

larue38462

eMeS wrote: »

I wonder the same thing. Especially because CCNP level switching knowledge is recommended for the CCDA.

What are the significant differences between switching as covered in CCNA material and switching as covered at the CCNP level?

MS

I passed the CCNA in August of last year and began my CCNP studies in November, but got serious about studying in late December. I'm starting with Switch and will be taking the test 2 weeks from tomorrow. From my various study materials, I would say that everyone has provided you with good information on the leap from CCNA to the Switch exam. Router redundancy protocols, etherchannels, switch security, VTP, VACLs, MLS, private vlans, etc. You'll also need to know how and when to implement these features based on business goals (a problem I think a lot of people were having problems with). You're also going to need to know all the details about STP and RSTP, including the different flavors of each and the respective features and when/where those features should be enabled. There is very basic information on QOS (mostly from a VOIP perspective) and wireless (basic WLC fundamentals and port configuration).

I used the FLG, Offical Cert guide, old trainsignal exams/videos, lab manual, and the transcender practice exams. I guess I can provide you with a little more insight as to which of those resources was worth the money in a few weeks. Good luck with your studies.

/usr

Honestly, a lot of that is my opinion based on what I've seen posted online, as well as the studying I've done thus far with ROUTE. I didn't mean for it to seem like a hard fact. It didn't seem to be the material on the exam...just maybe a slightly poor exam on Cisco's part. A lot of people are complaining about various things...

There are some posts you can dig up in this CCNP forum talking about SWITCH hassles, and this CLN link talks about it a bit.

https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/docs/DOC-6569

I've seen a lot of pass threads for this exam too, so by no means am I trying to say it's incredibly difficult if you've prepared properly. I was just trying to answer the OP's question as best I could, based on what I've encountered while studying for the exam.

I've scheduled this exam for March 14th, so hopefully I'll be able to report back then with more then!

wbosher

I'm now thinking I might go for ROUTE first. My reason being that I can do that on gns3, while I save up for the hardware for SWITCH.

It's going to take me a while to save up for a 3550 switch, and probably a 2950 or two as I only have a 3524. This suited me fine for CCNA (as well a packet tracer) but not any more.

mochaaddict

I would suggest reading CISCO's SWITCH blueprint. https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/docs/DOC-6566

I'm almost ready to attempt this one. Private VLANs were completely new to me.

tearofs

TBH, private VLAN is rarely used

chmorin

tearofs wrote: »

TBH, private VLAN is rarely used

I would agree in my experience, but it could still be useful to integrate in many situations. Make your environment as epic as possible, so that when they bring in a noob to replace you they instantly have to hire you back

pert

Sure the test is harder, but the ways its harder may not be relevant so some people. If you know how to do X then it doesn't really matter how hard a question I ask you about X is. If the subject is division: 9 divided by 3 is easier than 237839 divided by 2.73, but if you actually understand the concept it's irrelevant. Depending on how you studied for the NA it will make a large difference.

I think people overstate stuff like difficulty, amount of sims, and work experience while understating the importance of understanding the concepts and knowing the material deeply. There are also questions you'll get asked where you can pick the correct answer by KNOWING all the wrong ones, or knowing how to narrow it down through use of appropriate show commands.

Here is another way of stating it, if you every concept in the NA objectives absolutely fluently as a master then the NP is not exactly a big stretch. If you were lukewarm on something like STP then it's gonna be tough.