Don't buy into "get your CCNA, get a good job automatically"

AvidNetworker

Yesterday I was in the grocery store, going through the self checkout. The guy who works at the self checkout is a nice guy, and I am pretty friendly with him, always strike up a small conversation. I had mentioned to him that I had just had an interview, and he asked me what it was for, and I said a network engineer. He then said OH!, My friend told me that I should get my CCNA, and I can get a good job. He seemed to have very little understanding of what the CCNA actually entailed, and when I asked him if he had previous experience with computers or tech related, he said no.

I see these guys all the time, and have had friends that have done it. Basically someone says, "you should get X cert", and you will get a good job, like they are just handing jobs out somewhere. These people who have little passion or understanding of technology go into these courses, shell out a ton of money, spent a lot of time, and in the end are left with nothing. Even if they can gut it out in a miracle, often times, there total lack of experience or otherwise understanding of technology makes it very hard if not impossible to find a job.

When I took my CCNA network academy, the first class, the place was overflowing with these type of people, probably 40-50 people in the class, by the time the 4th class rolled around, there were maybe 10 left, and of those 10, I think maybe 5 passed the 4th exam., and of those, I think 3 of us actually got our CCNA.

Lastly. I have my CCNA, and I have 10+ years experience in system/network admin, plus tons of general tech support. I have a good understanding of tech, and a passion for it. I am still having a heck of a time finding a job. With the current economy, jobs aren't just being handed out, and you are competing with some pretty experienced candidates.

I am not trying to be a downer, and I have no doubt I will eventually find a job, and so will anyone else who has the will and the desire. But just don't get into networking because you think it will be an easy payday. I won't, and if you go in with that attitude, you will find yourself out a lot of money and time, and very frustrated.

jibbajabba

It might not get you a job on its own .. but most, if not all, non-network related jobs require CCNA's ... at least the ones I looked at .. I suppose companies use that as proof of network understanding ..

bertieb

This is pretty common. It's easy for people in a job they hate to want something else and by flashing the £/$ sign in front of them it doesn't take much to hook them. Thats the reason a lot of IT training firms with poor quality courses exist. I remember an awful advert on UK TV a while back with some guy doing manual labour outside in crappy weather, and eventually he ended up driving a flash Jag in charge of his own firm in what seemed a few months later after shelling out and completing some form of 'IT qualification' I've never heard of.

As you're finding out, its very hard to get a decent job, or even a foot in the door, but as with most things in life, some determination, passion and good old fashioned luck usually opens up a door or two. I wish you the best of luck in the hunt

okplaya

The reality is that the ONLY thing that gets you a job is a successful interview (or if you know someone). Certifications and degrees only get you the interview. What you do or say on the interview is what gets you the job. With that being said, the likelihood of you getting an interview, and likely a job is to get a degree and certifications. Just my .02

ConradJ

I just finished doing a college course in IT. I've been working in the field for a little while, so I went for the certs really.
I truly have a passion for the industry. I LOVE IT.
You can truly sit and pick out the people in the class who are just there because they think it will lead to a paycheck. They have no idea half the stuff I talk about, have no troubleshooting skills and really don't see anything further than just the book they are reading.
Very frustrating.
The worst case was a guy who couldn't understand that he would not be earning $50,000 a year straight out of school. What a moron. He had a criminal record too, real thug. He left a couple of months in, quite understandably.

CodeBlox

I'm attending the netacad class through my community collage. It does take work and you have to be willing to put in the time to practice and apply what you learn. Some of the other students weren't doing that and no longer continue with us. Either that or they send you emails asking for the solutions to trouble shooting labs.

odysseyelite

I saw the same thing in my Netcad classes. I'll be happy with a entry level networking job at this point just to get out of desktop support. Alot of students think they will walk into a nice 50k job. In realality you can hope to get a job in a NOC for 35k.

DEMENT3D1

Reminds me of my networking class. The first class was overfilled, they had to split the class into two different classes. By the second class, half the people were gone.

Now in my fourth class and we have about 9 people in it.

I was a Biomedical Engineering major, took a Introduction to Networking class to see whats it about, and fell in love. Nothing better then going to lab and setting up a small network in the school.

tomaifauchai

okplaya wrote: »

Certifications and degrees only get you the interview. What you do or say on the interview is what gets you the job.

+1
I would add that motivation is the key. Employers look at how you're talking about your job or skills and they try to get the most passionate ones also. The kinda guys who can't live without a computer in their hands. It's not only about what certifications you got etc, but also attitude, how you look, google skill and plenty of other details i would say!

DEMENT3D1 wrote: »

Reminds me of my networking class. The first class was overfilled, they had to split the class into two different classes. By the second class, half the people were gone.

Now in my fourth class and we have about 9 people in it.

Your history is exactly what i observed in my class. 40 peoples came at the admission, now we're 20. Some like Cisco, some linux and some windows server.
I chose the Cisco path and i got an interview 3 months prior finishing the class, bought a nice suit, went there with my CCNA + CCNA Voice in my pocket and the first thing they told me politely is, We don't care about your certifications

So, i got the interview because of them, but seriously, my certification path isn't their concerns. They took me because i have a vast field of general knowledge, motivated, young and probably that i'm a good worth for the bucks since i have no real experience out of my home and 18 months of college.

blackberry

where do you live?

mikej412

Hang out in the TechExams.net Cisco Forums and RAKE IN the MONEY you DEMAND!






The most important thing about a Certification is the knowledge and skills you pick up (and retain and can apply on the job) studying for the Certification. Then once you've EARNED the Certification, it's useful for getting your resume pulled from a pile so that someone takes some time to look at your resume.

At that point everything shifts to the quality and content of your resume -- and that hopefully leads to a phone screening and/or interview (where the knowledge and skill from studying for the Certifications could come in handy), and eventually a job offer.

That's it. That's all the Certification does. Certifications are NOT a magic ticket to a job. Certification will not go out there and pound the pavement looking for jobs while you lay on the sofa playing video games.

Maximize your Experience, Education, Certifications and work on your People and Networking skills (and toss in some luck) to maximize your current and future job opportunities. That's about as close as you can get to the Magic Formula for Success in IT -- and the weight of each component of the formula are going to vary greatly depending on the company, the jobs, the hiring manager, and the HR wonk(s) you encounter during the job hunt/hiring process.

Ultimately Experience will be King -- but even when you're rocking royalty level experience you may still need the Education/Certification buzzwords to have your resume pulled from a pile to be considered for the jobs.

And when you're starting out with ZERO experience and thinking about whining how it's not fair "you need experience to get a job, but to get a job you need experience" just remember everybody else started out with ZERO experience and somehow found a way to impress someone and get that first job (and whining usually wasn't how they did it ).

Hopefully you did an internship while attending an impressive University, but if you felt the internship would cut into your party time, you still have a shot to impress someone during the Senior On-Campus Recruiting Galas.

If you attended a normal person school, you hopefully impressed a Professor/Instructor enough that they'd use their industry contacts and recommend you for a shot at the Bigs.

If you haven't impressed anybody (except yourself by EARNING a Certification), then it's time to hit the streets looking for an IT job with a chance for growth and promotion. And that's where you have to be realistic about your expectations. You can dream big, but if you can't throw a 100mph fast ball and/or hit .500 then you may need to look for a job selling peanuts in the stands at the ballpark if you want to get into the game.....

ITdude

mikej412 wrote: »

Hang out in the TechExams.net Cisco Forums and RAKE IN the MONEY you DEMAND!


If you haven't impressed anybody (except yourself by EARNING a Certification), then it's time to hit the streets looking for an IT job with a chance for growth and promotion. And that's where you have to be realistic about your expectations. You can dream big, but if you can't throw a 100mph fast ball and/or hit .500 then you may need to look for a job selling peanuts in the stands at the ballpark if you want to get into the game.....

I like the baseball metaphor!

alan2308

AvidNetworker wrote: »

Basically someone says, "you should get X cert", and you will get a good job, like they are just handing jobs out somewhere.

So these commercials I hear on the radio that will get me Microsoft certified so I can start earning $70,000+ aren't quite accurate?

Seriously, my wife took their entrance exam and scored 90%. She doesn't know jack about computers.

VAHokie56

mikej412 wrote: »

And when you're starting out with ZERO experience and thinking about whining how it's not fair "you need experience to get a job, but to get a job you need experience" just remember everybody else started out with ZERO experience and somehow found a way to impress someone and get that first job (and whining usually wasn't how they did it ).

I agree. There is a way in for people who are resilient even if it does mean spending a year in a call center from hell to get to your "break threw position"

-DeXteR-

Certifications will lead you to the Door . It depends on how you putforth your best foot to get in .

Patel128

I do hear a lot of people at my school who think that certs like an A+ will automatically land them into some $80k job. Its quite annoying, but at the same time I know if they were to apply to the same job as me I would have the knowledge to get the job.

tomaifauchai

Patel128 wrote: »

I do hear a lot of people at my school who think that certs like an A+ will automatically land them into some $80k job.

ROFL to them!

Hypntick

Patel128 wrote: »

I do hear a lot of people at my school who think that certs like an A+ will automatically land them into some $80k job. Its quite annoying, but at the same time I know if they were to apply to the same job as me I would have the knowledge to get the job.

I think i'm getting hosed then.

stuh84

CodeBlox(2) wrote: »

Heh, a friend was chatting with me and she said shes trying to get into IT because the work is "easy". She said she has friends in IT that do nothing but sit on facebook all day. Are there really people who sit on facebook all day when there are more productive things to be done?

Probably, but some people don't always have productive stuff to do.

To confirm on this topic title, my job isn't good, and I've got more than just a CCNA. I'm in the industry with experience and I still can't get anything worthwhile that matches my ability.

-DeXteR-

OUTSOURCING is the problem which is haunting the ppl in america causing acute shortage in emplyoment .

odysseyelite

I'm in the same boat as stuh84. I'm stuck at a Desktop Support role at this time. I can do circles around some of the other techs. I can spend a good amout of time surfing the net, looking for jobs, listening to music and sometimes getting a game of angry birds in there.

My other option is getting another ticket and removing someone's virus they got while downloading bootleg movies.

ConradJ

I'm afraid I'm a culprit of being one of those who sits on Facebook/forums all day. Purely reactive job means there is very little to do otherwise! I just sit and work on certs and read IT forums to learn and observe and try help where I can.
It does get very tiring though, I get restless and tend to get headaches from sitting static too long.
In my previous life I was an estimator, never short of work and always heading into deadlines or chasing clients or going to meetings. I thrive on the constant bustle. Sitting doing nothing really, really gets to me. I find I feel tired and have issues getting through the day.
One day I will have earned my way into a better position...

odysseyelite

I get so bored at work I can't wait to go home and study. My other workers don't understand how I can work all day and then study for 4+ hours at night.

ConradJ wrote: »

I'm afraid I'm a culprit of being one of those who sits on Facebook/forums all day. Purely reactive job means there is very little to do otherwise! I just sit and work on certs and read IT forums to learn and observe and try help where I can.
It does get very tiring though, I get restless and tend to get headaches from sitting static too long.
In my previous life I was an estimator, never short of work and always heading into deadlines or chasing clients or going to meetings. I thrive on the constant bustle. Sitting doing nothing really, really gets to me. I find I feel tired and have issues getting through the day.
One day I will have earned my way into a better position...

AvidNetworker

I guess just as a post of hope for others looking for a job. I just got an offer (and accepted) a network admin job. I don't think the CCNA got me the job, but I think it certainly helped.

markde1974

What is wrong with you people? Everyone had to start somewhere, making things sound worse than they really are is pointless. The fact is that if people are tenacious enough to get a CCNA or whatever they are working for then in many cases they doha ve a very good chance of getting a job. True, it may not be a job that pays $50,000 out of the gate but it will get there soon if they are worth a damn and if they are working for a company that doesnt treat their employees like slaves. There are plenty of large corporations out there looking for entry level people that they can train to their own standards.
Stop doing the typical "experienced guy" thing that is trying to scare off the newbies. It's pathetic and weak. Grow up!

mistabrumley89

This is a common occurence in the military. You will hear "Get your CCNA and get out" alllllll day long. And it is proposturous. Most of the soldiers I know that have their CCNA don't know jack **** about networking. They just take test **** and get their certification and think they will do good in the civilian sector.... This **** just rubs me wrong... A good percentage of them think that Security+ with no experience will land them $100K/yr+ job all day long. I could go on all day about this >.>

Not trying to steer anyone away from getting their CCNA, but sooooo many people who get their CCNA without having future goals wouldn't last a day on a production network.

I applaud the person that studies whole heartedly and actually enjoys learning about new technologies. Be compassionate about your "field of expertise".

*Rant*Rant*Rant*

roch_greg

Not to jack the OP's thread, but this subject could apply to any cert. Several years ago, At the company where I worked as the Network Administrator, they hired this guy for a non-IT related position.

After getting to know him, he proceeds to tell me how he spent $1,000's on the complete track to obtain his MCSE. Which he did get. What he couldn't get was a job to go with it.

He kept going on and on about it everyday till I finally asked him had he ever worked in the industry prior to or during getting that cert. Answer was no. So I asked him what did he expect?

Actually he was all bent out of shape when he asked what cert's I had (none) but even at that time I had close to 8 years experience and two Technical Engineering Degrees. I then told him that's why I was doing what I'm doing and he wasn't.

I have a dozen of these stories from meeting people over the years who ask what I do, then proceed to vent at me how they spent tons of dough and can't get a job.

Certifications started off as a way for those in the industry to show they were ready for the next level, or prove that they know what they know to keep their job.

Then things got hijacked during the tech boom and companies were making money hand over fist certifying people. Many got hired but it soon became apparent they couldn't do the work they were hired to do, with only a cert and no experience. So the companies that hired them got burned.

Which brings us to today, where experience + certs or just experience alone is what is sought.

I am in no way trying to dissuade anybody from pursuing their goals. But you have to be realistic in setting those goals.

There are still companies (small) that will hire you to manage/run their network with even no certs or experience. Just as long as you know "something about computers".

fredrikjj

roch_greg: I'm curious, what's the difference between acquiring a certain skill set from a college or doing it on your own through certifications? In my opinion, studying for and passing hard certifications more closely resembles real life than taking some college class where 50% on the exam is a pass. Since we can all agree that if someone gets a CCIE in their basement instead of going to college, they wouldn't really have a problem getting a job, it's just a matter of the CCNA not being advanced enough - not that certifications can't get you a job.

Dieg0M

Half of the network engineers at work do not have any certifications and the other half all have CCIE #. This proves that certifications do not = good job. Certifications will help you immensely in interviews and in your work environment though. Also, I noticed that the guys who don't have certifications have big gaps in their knowledge; they will lack understanding of the underlying technologies.
Everyone should get certifications regardless (it's pretty embarrassing when your talking to a senior networking guy who doesn't know what PVLAN's are or how policy-maps,VPLS, QinQ works. Also, I think there's a lot of cheating going on and its lowered the value of certs in general. The only way to know for sure if the guy is legit is in an interview. At my job, the higher the cert you have the more grilling you get. The other day, there was a guy who listed CCIE R&S (written) as a cert in his resume and got a 4 hour grill session with 3 of our CCIE's in a conference room.

roch_greg

fredrikjj wrote: »

roch_greg: I'm curious, what's the difference between acquiring a certain skill set from a college or doing it on your own through certifications? In my opinion, studying for and passing hard certifications more closely resembles real life than taking some college class where 50% on the exam is a pass. Since we can all agree that if someone gets a CCIE in their basement instead of going to college, they wouldn't really have a problem getting a job, it's just a matter of the CCNA not being advanced enough - not that certifications can't get you a job.

fredrikjj


Actually I didn't mean to apply that I got that job solely because of the degrees. But I will tell you there is no "50% on the exam pass". Least not at the University I went to for Telecommunications Engineering Tech. The required math and physics alone was enough to make a grown man cry.

I will say that I got that job and the others before for it with a combination of experience and University studies. With the former being the key.

On the other side of the coin plenty of people graduate university and don't get a job either. Much for the same reason we are discussing, lack of experience.

Dyasis

markde1974

You bring up a thread that was from march of '11 ? lol