CCNA/CCNP lab

Eildor

Hello

I'm studying for CCNA certification and would like some advice in regards to what equipment I should purchase. I may decide to pursue CCNP certification also, so I think it would be a good idea to get routers and switches that can be used for both... so long as it doesn't get too expensive.

Looking forward to hearing your suggestions!

okplaya

The general consensus.....

Routers - 2600XM series
L2 Switch - 2950
L3 Switch - 3550

Keep in mind you will need to purchase card and cables, and probably memory.

It's likely going to cost more than what you want to pay, but will be less than 1 college course in the USA which doesn't compare to a CCNP on your resume.

Eildor

Thank you for your reply.

Is the 3550 required for CCNA? Or could I purchase the 2600XM and 2950, then purchase the 3550 when I'm ready for CCNP?

What is the recommended quantity of routers and switches?

alan2308

You want at least 2 routers and 2 switches, but 3 is better. The more the merrier, but you're not getting much ROI when you get past 3 at this level.

For routers, the 2600XM's are great, but you can also consider the 1721 and 1760 models, which are considerably cheaper but still capable of running a decent IOS. I can't suggest the 2500's or 2600's (non-XM) as a 3rd or 4th router anymore since the 17xx's are so cheap now.

You do not need an L3 switch for the CCNA, 2950's are sufficient. Stay away from the 2900XL/3500XL series unless it's going to be your 3rd or 4th switch complementing a pair of 2950's. And as I've said before, I'll personally come to your home and kick you if you ever actually spend money on a 1900 switch.

Eildor

I guess I'll have to go for 3 of each... I was doing a lab today in class and it required 3 routers and 3 switches.

Does this seem like a good deal:

CISCO 2620XM Router (2610XM CCNA CCNP CCIE Lab) on eBay (end time 30-Mar-11 18:44:09 BST)

Also - and this is probably a stupid question - how do I simulate connected computers, I don't have access to more than 2 at one time. Do I just configure loopback interfaces to do that?

My computer doesn't have a port for a rollover cable either; am I going to need some sort of USB rollover adapter or is there another way to get around that?

Thank you!

Eildor

What can the 2620xm do that the 2501 can't as far as CCNA requirements?

The 2501's seem quite a bit cheaper when you consider they already have serial interfaces.

Jollycork

Eildor wrote: »

What can the 2620xm do that the 2501 can't as far as CCNA requirements?

The 2501's seem quite a bit cheaper when you consider they already have serial interfaces.

the version of IOS that can run on 2500s....and the features that, that version of IOS has....

I've got 2 2514s and I use em, but some of the CLI commands for later IOS versions don't work on 2500s for obvious reasons. The biggest factor is multifunction use. 2500s aren't multifunction. Need a frame relay switch with 4 serial ports? you can buy a 4A/S module for a 2600 series. For a 2500 series, you have to buy a 2500 series router with 4 serial ports...

it's issues like that, that limit the functionality of 2500s, but for labbing routing with 4 or 5 routers, 2500s are a cheap alternative to get 4 or 5 routers in the pod [if you have some 2600s also in the pod with a later IOS that allows you to do the exam objective in labbing].

odysseyelite

2600xm's are great. The 3640 gets overseen alot. Check into getting one, it can be configured to do alot of different things, it can run 12.4 IOS and picked up pretty cheap.

2950's are a great deal. Wait and get the 3550 if you go onto CCNP.

alan2308

Eildor wrote: »

What can the 2620xm do that the 2501 can't as far as CCNA requirements?

The 2501's seem quite a bit cheaper when you consider they already have serial interfaces.

They have serial interfaces, but you'll have to buy transceivers if you want to use Ethernet. Every router is going to require something.

The 2500's cannot do inter-VLAN routing, and they cannot do SDM. Other than that, my 2500's (and non-XM 2600's) did pretty much everything that I needed for the CCNA. There may have been a command or option here or there that was either missing or different, but no real show stoppers.

I agree, that's not a lot more for the price when you look at the 2600XM. Currently, the best bang for the buck appears to be the 1721 and the 1760, both of which you can find in the $25 - $50 range. That's a lot more comparable to the 2500 price wise without the limitations. The 2500's run up to IOS 12.3, the 1700's run up to IOS 12.4.

mikej412

Eildor wrote: »

What can the 2620xm do that the 2501 can't as far as CCNA requirements?

The 2501's seem quite a bit cheaper when you consider they already have serial interfaces.

The 2600XM can do router on a stick, the SDM tasks, and have the 12.4T IOS feature sets that support Zone Based Firewalls for the CCNA Security. Plus they have support for IPv6 so they should still be useful for a few more years down the road in a lab (and hopefully through the next certification revisions). There are also some 12.3 IOS versions that support MPLS.

The 2500 are cheap -- they're only worth about $10 (and hopefully include the transceiver since some people try and sell those for $15). You can hook 2 together and build a 4 port compound frame relay switch for $20.

The 2500s max out at a 12.2 Enterprise Plus, or a 12.3 IP Plus that has a little more support for some IPv6 routing.

Once the prices on these hit the $20+ point -- then look at the 2600 non-XM routers. Those are maybe worth about $20-30. Any more than that, get the 1721 or 1760 for $40-50. The 1721 can run a 12.4T Security or Advanced IP IOS feature sets and the 1760 can run a 12.4T Advanced Enterprise Feature set. Some of the fully tricked out 1721s or 1760 could sell for $100 -- but if you bid patiently you can still sometimes find a MAXed 1721 or 1760 for $50.

Once you start hitting $60 for a router, you may as well start hunting for deals on 2610XM routers and work your way up the 2600XM food chain. The often overlooked 2650XM and 2651XM routers can sometimes scored for the price of a 2620XM or 2621XM -- and sometimes even for the price of a 2610XM or 2611XM.

For the CCNA you need one good router to do router on a stick and SDM (and maybe pull double duty as your frame relay switch). Then your other 2 or 3 routers can all be cheap $10 2501s if you're on a tight budget (and not also building your CCNP lab).

The 2600XM and 1700 IOS images are also supported by Dynamips -- so when you do your ICND1/CCNA backup the IOS lab practice, you can configure Dynagen or GNS3 to point at the backup copy of the IOS you left on your hard drive and "build your CCNP routers" that way.

Jollycork

For the CCNA you need one good router to do router on a stick and SDM (and maybe pull double duty as your frame relay switch). Then your other 2 or 3 routers can all be cheap $10 2501s if you're on a tight budget (and not also building your CCNP lab).

Mike: I hope whom ever your work for realizes the level of knowledge and experience you have is worth big bucks....

mattlee09

Jollycork wrote: »

Mike: I hope whom ever your work for realizes the level of knowledge and experience you have is worth big bucks....

Ha - on the other hand, imagine how much all the people selling these pre-made self study kits despise him!

Seriously though - I think Alan said it in another thread, putting together a lab piece by piece is a huge part of the experience and learning process. Heed Mikes advice and keep perusing eBay for the best deals. Watch particular sellers and research their previous feedback(s) before buying - be sure to check the RAM amounts and IOS versions, as well as DOA/return policies. The time upfront is well worth the time/money saved!

Eildor

Thank you all for your replies.

I'm getting the impression that prices in the US are quite a bit cheaper than they are in the UK. Looks like I'm going to be forking out £75 to £90 for each 2610xm (WIC-2T included). Can't believe a WIC-2T costs £30 to £40! That's almost the same price as the router itself.

Also - and this is probably a stupid question - how do I simulate connected computers, I don't have access to more than 2 at one time. Do I just configure loopback interfaces to do that?

My computer doesn't have a port for a rollover cable either; am I going to need some sort of USB rollover adapter or is there another way to get around that?

Eildor

Hope someone can answer my question above.

Another thing I wanted to ask... how much Flash/RAM should I be looking for in the 2620's? And, Will a 12 port 2950 get me through CCNA and CCNP, or do I need a 24 port?

Patel128

Eildor wrote: »

Hope someone can answer my question above.

Another thing I wanted to ask... how much Flash/RAM should I be looking for in the 2620's? And, Will a 12 port 2950 get me through CCNA and CCNP, or do I need a 24 port?

I would probably max out the Flash/Ram. I think that the 12 port will suffice too

Edit: I just reread the post, and i mean that you do need probably 2 or 3 switches but they can be 12 ports and be good still. Sorry for the confusion

Eildor

I've come across a 2620XM with 16mb Flash and 64mb RAM. Is that sufficient for CCNA/CCNP?

okplaya

Do I just configure loopback interfaces to do that? Yes

My computer doesn't have a port for a rollover cable either; am I going to need some sort of USB rollover adapter or is there another way to get around that? Yes. I have a Keyspan USA-19HS that I got for free from work.


Another thing I wanted to ask... how much Flash/RAM should I be looking for in the 2620's? I think the non-XM's max out at 64/16. For the XM's, anything from 128/32 or above is good to run latest IOS for that model.

And, Will a 12 port 2950 get me through CCNA and CCNP, or do I need a 24 port? A single 2950 is not sufficient for CCNA or CCNP. I personally recommend 2 L2 switches and 1 L3 switch.

Patel128

I may be wrong, but I do not think that will be enough. My 2600XMs all came with like 64 Ram and 16 flash, and I had to upgrade all of them. I added one 128 mb ram stick and one 32 mb flash stick to all of them. It ran me about 100 or so to do that to four 2600XMs.

Eildor

okplaya wrote: »

Do I just configure loopback interfaces to do that? Yes

My computer doesn't have a port for a rollover cable either; am I going to need some sort of USB rollover adapter or is there another way to get around that? Yes. I have a Keyspan USA-19HS that I got for free from work.


Another thing I wanted to ask... how much Flash/RAM should I be looking for in the 2620's? I think the non-XM's max out at 64/16. For the XM's, anything from 128/32 or above is good to run latest IOS for that model.

And, Will a 12 port 2950 get me through CCNA and CCNP, or do I need a 24 port? A single 2950 is not sufficient for CCNA or CCNP. I personally recommend 2 L2 switches and 1 L3 switch.

I meant three 12 port 2950's, my mistake.

Thank you

okplaya

If you are serious about getting your CCNP then it would behoove you to get at least 1 L3 switch. You could get two L2 switches and 1 L3. I know they are costly, but you will end up having to buy one anyway so why not now? The L3 can still function as a L2 so you get the best of both worlds. The most recommended and affordable L3 switch is the 3550.

The port count is irrelevant for lab studies. Keep in mind these switches are developed with the intent to accommodate many users and servers in production networks. For an exam lab it really doesn't matter.

Eildor

I see what you are saying okplaya. But I'm 21 years old, in full time education, and have no income; so I'm trying to keep my costs down.

Now I have a better idea of how much this is all going to cost I'm considering sticking to using equipment available in class until I can afford to spend that kind of money.

Thank you all for your help, I've learnt quite a bit.

okplaya

Yes, it's costly. That's why I mentioned it in my first post

Use the resources already available and make the most out of it. Best of luck!

Eildor

okplaya wrote: »

Yes, it's costly. That's why I mentioned it in my first post

Use the resources already available and make the most out of it. Best of luck!

Will do -- thanks mate

jibbajabba

What about lab software ? A lot of people seem to prefer them over buying the actual hardware ...

Eildor

Gomjaba wrote: »

What about lab software ? A lot of people seem to prefer them over buying the actual hardware ...

I use Packet Tracer, which is quite good. I couldn't use the "ip classless" command though which was annoying... either Packet Tracer doesn't accept it, or I'm doing something wrong. It's good to work with the real thing though I suppose, especially since I'm a newbie... but I guess the physical side of things like figuring out the DTE/DCE end of a cable, upgrading hardware etc is something that once you've done once, you can do it again. If there was no way of getting access to real hardware then I guess I could justify spending £500+ on a lab... but we have 2620XM's and 2950's in class that I can use.

alan2308

Eildor wrote: »

Also - and this is probably a stupid question - how do I simulate connected computers, I don't have access to more than 2 at one time. Do I just configure loopback interfaces to do that?

I missed this the first time through and didn't see a response. There's a couple of ways you can work around this. One, you can move one of the PC's from network to network and change its IP address. Two, you can configure a loopback (more on this in a sec). Three, you can send your pings from a switch, which is often times just as good as if it's coming from a PC hanging off of the switch.

What I will often do is to use the extended options of the ping command on a router to send the ping with a different source address. You can use the IP address of any interface on the router, physical or loopback.

R1#ping
Protocol [ip]:
Target IP address: 192.168.3.1
Repeat count [5]:
Datagram size [100]:
Timeout in seconds [2]:
Extended commands [n]: y
Source address or interface: 192.168.1.1
Type of service [0]:
Set DF bit in IP header? [no]:
Validate reply data? [no]:
Data pattern [0xABCD]:
Loose, Strict, Record, Timestamp, Verbose[none]:
Sweep range of sizes [n]:
Type escape sequence to abort.
Sending 5, 100-byte ICMP Echos to 192.168.3.1, timeout is 2 seconds:


And as far as the cost of a 3550, just keep watching. I took a chance on one where the guy thought all 10 of them had an intermittent power supply problem and was selling them as-is for $40 shipped (I couldn't even find a 2950 for that price). I figured even if I had to buy a new power supply I would still be coming out ahead. So I bought one and it works just fine. I really wish I would have bought a couple more now.

ltgenspecific

Packet Tracer is fine and dandy but as has been said here and was just reinforced by an instructor of mine the other day: "There is no replacement for HANDS ON experience."

My instructor pointed out that if I were to go for a job interview and my only experience is lab experience would it be more beneficial to say that you "point-&-clicked" your WIC-2T into the router or that you physically installed/configured it in a lab setting?

Makes a good deal of sense to me.

Eildor

@ alan2308 - That's an amazing deal you got there. I'll keep my eyes open for sure.

@ Itgenspecific - I have access to equipment. If I were to ask to try swap out a module to see how it's done that shouldn't be an issue.