70-640 vs. 70-646

JohnnyBigglesJohnnyBiggles Member Posts: 273
in MCTS / MCITP on Windows 2008 General
Which is better to do first? Is it better to understand Active Directory before even installing Server 2008?? I've read 646 somehow is harder than 640 and someone recommended going in order for the SA track (and probably for the EA track as well?). But, 646 describes the software itself starting with the installation and requirements. Wouldn't that make sense if you're not very familiar with either?
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  • Asif DaslAsif Dasl Member Posts: 2,116 ■■■■■■■■□□
    Start off with 70-640, but wait a few weeks until the R2 book is out. If you are going for MCITP:SA then go with 70-642, the R2 book is already out for it. Then finally go with 70-646 the R2 book is not out for that until August. 70-646 is a summary of the previous exams, it does not start out telling you how to install Server 2008. HTH
    You can tell whether a man is clever by his answers. You can tell whether a man is wise by his questions. - Naguib Mahfouz

    The mind is the limit. As long as the mind can envision the fact that you can do something, you can do it, as long as you really believe 100 percent. - Arnold Schwarzenegger
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  • Jander1023Jander1023 Member Posts: 160
    JohnnyBiggles wrote: »
    Which is better to do first? Is it better to understand Active Directory before even installing Server 2008?? I've read 646 somehow is harder than 640 and someone recommended going in order for the SA track (and probably for the EA track as well?). But, 646 describes the software itself starting with the installation and requirements. Wouldn't that make sense if you're not very familiar with either?

    Did you mean 640 before 642? You should complete both the 640 and 642 before taking the 646.

    Some people do take the 642 first, then do the 640. It really just depends on how much previous server experience you have and/or AD experience.
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  • JohnnyBigglesJohnnyBiggles Member Posts: 273
    Jander1023 wrote: »
    Did you mean 640 before 642? You should complete both the 640 and 642 before taking the 646.

    Some people do take the 642 first, then do the 640. It really just depends on how much previous server experience you have and/or AD experience.

    If you have none with 2008, which order is best for SA?

    *Edit: I think Asif already answered that, but feel free to give an opinion as well.
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  • JohnnyBigglesJohnnyBiggles Member Posts: 273
    Asif Dasl wrote: »
    ...70-646 is a summary of the previous exams, it does not start out telling you how to install Server 2008. HTH

    But it does, though (Microsoft Self-Paced Training Kit book). The "Contents at a Glance" shows "Installing, Upgrading and Deploying Windows Server 2008" ....on page 1.....?

    Chapters 2 & 3 are: 2 -Configuring Network Connectivity; 3 - Active Directory and Group Policy

    Those and the following chapters sound more like introductory material to Server 2008 than the material shown in the table of contents for both 640 and 642. Am I off a bit here? Why would Active Directory Configuration (640) and Network Infrastructure Configuration (642) be more important than installation and initial configuration and getting to know the basic UI?
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  • EssendonEssendon Member Posts: 4,546 ■■■■■■■■■■
    I think he just wanted to tell you that the 646 wasnt "entry-level" and that doing the 640+642 before them is important/recommended. Just so you know, the 646 is a planning exam. For example, it's good/important to know what DNS is (covered in the 642) before you start planning DNS server placement (covered in the 646).
    NSX, NSX, more NSX..

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  • Jander1023Jander1023 Member Posts: 160
    JohnnyBiggles wrote: »
    But it does, though (Microsoft Self-Paced Training Kit book). The "Contents at a Glance" shows "Installing, Upgrading and Deploying Windows Server 2008" ....on page 1.....?

    Chapters 2 & 3 are: 2 -Configuring Network Connectivity; 3 - Active Directory and Group Policy

    Those and the following chapters sound more like introductory material to Server 2008 than the material shown in the table of contents for both 640 and 642. Am I off a bit here? Why would Active Directory Configuration (640) and Network Infrastructure Configuration (642) be more important than installation and initial configuration and getting to know the basic UI?

    The 646 book may appear to be introductory but most of the topics you are seeing in the 646 book were already covered in the 640 and 642. The 646 is more focused on design and implementation instead of the actual installation and configuration.

    I would actually recommend the following path for Server 2008:

    640
    642
    643
    646
    647

    You can flip the 640 and 642 if you are lacking in experience with basic installation and configuring of server 2008. The 646 is also optional if you want to get your EA and not the SA. I'm actually doing the SA and the EA but many people don't bother with the SA.

    Also, the 646 covers much of the 643 material. I actually read some of the 643 book in preparation for the 646. Also, my 686 cert covered some of the 643 material. In hindsight, I would do the 643 before the 646.
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  • Asif DaslAsif Dasl Member Posts: 2,116 ■■■■■■■■□□
    JohnnyBiggles wrote: »
    But it does, though (Microsoft Self-Paced Training Kit book). The "Contents at a Glance" shows "Installing, Upgrading and Deploying Windows Server 2008" ....on page 1.....?

    Chapters 2 & 3 are: 2 -Configuring Network Connectivity; 3 - Active Directory and Group Policy

    Those and the following chapters sound more like introductory material to Server 2008 than the material shown in the table of contents for both 640 and 642. Am I off a bit here? Why would Active Directory Configuration (640) and Network Infrastructure Configuration (642) be more important than installation and initial configuration and getting to know the basic UI?
    Oops got me there, just opened the 646, 640 & 642 MS Press books. Could have sworn installing Server 2008 was covered in the 640 book. Chapter 2 looks to be out of order too, but they are the only chapters that are out of order, the rest of the chapters go over topics that were covered in the 640 & 642 books or cover a topic for the first time. Sigh... this being the internet and all I have to prove it to you so the chapters of the 646 book are listed below.

    Chapter 01 Installing, Upgrading, and Deploying Windows Server 2008 ( new topic )
    Chapter 02 Configuring Network Connectivity ( new topic )
    Chapter 03 Active Directory & Group Policy ( chapters 2,3,4,5,6,7 70-640 book )
    Chapter 04 Application Servers & Services ( new topic )
    Chapter 05 Terminal Services & Application & Server Virtualization ( new topic - but in chapter 3&4 of 70-643)
    Chapter 06 File & Print Servers ( chapters 11 & 12 70-642 book )
    Chapter 07 Windows Server 2008 Management, Monitoring & Delegation ( some coverage in chapter 10 70-642 book )
    Chapter 08 Patch Management & Security ( chapter 9 70-642 book )
    Chapter 09 Remote Access & Network Access Protection ( chapter 8 70-642 book )
    Chapter 10 Certificate Services & Storage Area Networks ( new topic )
    Chapter 11 Clustering & High Availability ( new topic - but in chapter 2 of 70-643 )
    Chapter 12 Backup & Recovery ( new topic )
    You can tell whether a man is clever by his answers. You can tell whether a man is wise by his questions. - Naguib Mahfouz

    The mind is the limit. As long as the mind can envision the fact that you can do something, you can do it, as long as you really believe 100 percent. - Arnold Schwarzenegger
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  • earweedearweed Member Posts: 5,192 ■■■■■■■■■□
    Asif Dasl wrote: »
    Oops got me there, just opened the 646, 640 & 642 MS Press books. Could have sworn installing Server 2008 was covered in the 640 book. Chapter 2 looks to be out of order too, but they are the only chapters that are out of order, the rest of the chapters go over topics that were covered in the 640 & 642 books or cover a topic for the first time. Sigh... this being the internet and all I have to prove it to you so the chapters of the 646 book are listed below.

    Chapter 01 Installing, Upgrading, and Deploying Windows Server 2008 ( new topic )
    Chapter 02 Configuring Network Connectivity ( new topic )
    Chapter 03 Active Directory & Group Policy ( chapters 2,3,4,5,6,7 70-640 book )
    Chapter 04 Application Servers & Services ( new topic )
    Chapter 05 Terminal Services & Application & Server Virtualization ( new topic - but in chapter 3&4 of 70-643)
    Chapter 06 File & Print Servers ( chapters 11 & 12 70-642 book )
    Chapter 07 Windows Server 2008 Management, Monitoring & Delegation ( some coverage in chapter 10 70-642 book )
    Chapter 08 Patch Management & Security ( chapter 9 70-642 book )
    Chapter 09 Remote Access & Network Access Protection ( chapter 8 70-642 book )
    Chapter 10 Certificate Services & Storage Area Networks ( new topic )
    Chapter 11 Clustering & High Availability ( new topic - but in chapter 2 of 70-643 )
    Chapter 12 Backup & Recovery ( new topic )

    All of the "new topics" you've listed are actually covered in the 64X MCTS test study. The big difference in the 64x MCTS tests and the 646 is that the MCTS tests are about HOW you do things and the 646/ 647 is more about why you would need to do them. You really need a more thorough understanding of the technology to do the 646/ 647 tests than what you would get by studying just the 646 book.
    No longer work in IT. Play around with stuff sometimes still and fix stuff for friends and relatives.
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  • Asif DaslAsif Dasl Member Posts: 2,116 ■■■■■■■■□□
    earweed wrote: »
    All of the "new topics" you've listed are actually covered in the 64X MCTS test study.
    Oh you could be right, I didn't do an exhaustive comparison I just lined up similar chapters. I think there is a few brand new topics covered in the 70-646 book (chapters 1,2,12 for certain) but the majority of it has already been covered if you took the exams in order. I'm about 2 months out from reading all of these books for the 70-649 exam and onwards but I'm certainly going to read them in the proper order.
    You can tell whether a man is clever by his answers. You can tell whether a man is wise by his questions. - Naguib Mahfouz

    The mind is the limit. As long as the mind can envision the fact that you can do something, you can do it, as long as you really believe 100 percent. - Arnold Schwarzenegger
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  • NINJA1200NINJA1200 Member Posts: 5 ■□□□□□□□□□
    Asif Dasl wrote: »
    Start off with 70-640, but wait a few weeks until the R2 book is out. If you are going for MCITP:SA then go with 70-642, the R2 book is already out for it. Then finally go with 70-646 the R2 book is not out for that until August. 70-646 is a summary of the previous exams, it does not start out telling you how to install Server 2008. HTH

    All books are already out . At least is what it says ins the website:

    MCITP Self-Paced Training Kit (Exam 70-647): Windows Server® 2008 Enterprise Administrator, Second Edition - O'Reilly Media
    MCTS Self-Paced Training Kit (Exam 70-640): Configuring Windows Server® 2008 Active Directory®, Second Edition - O'Reilly Media
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  • rudergerruderger Member Posts: 19 ■□□□□□□□□□
    Asif Dasl wrote: »
    Start off with 70-640, but wait a few weeks until the R2 book is out. If you are going for MCITP:SA then go with 70-642, the R2 book is already out for it. Then finally go with 70-646 the R2 book is not out for that until August. 70-646 is a summary of the previous exams, it does not start out telling you how to install Server 2008. HTH
    I was going to say exactly this. I did 70-642 first cos I had to sit one before end of June and the 70-642 2nd edition was out.
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