New guy on the block

technoob

Hey guys, just like 100's out there, Im out to look for a better paying job and the usual bla bla bla... lol

Well let me start on where I am, and where I wanna be.

I have a Bachelors Degree in Computer networking and Administration and a Masters Degree in Information Systems. I have no certs whatsoever. I do have about 2 years of experience in the IT field doing network admin/tech support jobs.

Now I just moved to Canada and am having a tough time looking for a job. Some of my friends told me to go and do the CISSP. I looked into it and looks like you need to have some serious amount of knowledge about security as well as have a good amount of experience to be even considered. Well, I thought lets start small and maybe work towards a MCSE.

I know theres a ton of info out there but thats the problem. Everyone;s just throwing stuff out there and its confusing. I wanna go that route and came across this simplified website which explains what exams to take and such. MCSE vs MCITP: Is the MCSE Still Worth It?

I also went on microsoft's website and noticed something MCSE Certification | MCSE Training | Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer (
Note Mainstream support for Windows Server 2003 ended on July 13, 2010. Microsoft Windows 2000 Server reached the end of its product lifecycle on July 13, 2010.)

Now does that mean that dont touch anything to do with server 03? Would it be a waste and go towards 08? Also do the exams remain the same? Any insight would be helpful. If you think I should do seme other cert and not bother, please do let me know so I can at least inquire about it. Also If there are any CISSP certified people, if you could help me out with that scenerio, as in if i do go ahead with it, what would be my starting point?

Armymanis

I thought Canada was supposed to be the place to get IT jobs. Not joking either. A friend said to me computer jobs in Canada were more common than in the U.S. Is that a lie?

pzero

Welcome! IMO: There a still quite a few Server 03 installs out there so having the know-how for Server 03 isnt going to be a bad thing, as for pursing the MCSE to me its a line ball at this stage of its life, if you have not already got a few of the exams done then personally I would start on the MCITP 2008 track.

As for CISSP - I dont hold this cert and am no where near even starting to think about it, but check out the infosec forums, look for posts by 'keatron' he gives an awesome explaination of what your looking for.

Hope this helps mate.

UnixGuy

A Canadian friend of mine told me the exact opposite ! not joking either.

Armymanis wrote: »

I thought Canada was supposed to be the place to get IT jobs. Not joking either. A friend said to me computer jobs in Canada were more common than in the U.S. Is that a lie?

technoob

Armymanis wrote: »

I thought Canada was supposed to be the place to get IT jobs. Not joking either. A friend said to me computer jobs in Canada were more common than in the U.S. Is that a lie?

UnixGuy wrote: »

A Canadian friend of mine told me the exact opposite ! not joking either.

Well guys it is and it isnt. There def are jobs out there, no doubt about it, at least from the postings Ive been going throguh BUT there's a lot of competetion also. At the moment, there just happens to be more expereinced unemployed IT specialists than fresh graduates or people with less experience. So companies out there are snagging the experienced ones first, and then look to the guy with a year or so of experience. So at this point, if you know someone in the inside, its probably just as good as having a cert or degree cause getting in is the problem.

pzero wrote: »

Welcome! IMO: There a still quite a few Server 03 installs out there so having the know-how for Server 03 isnt going to be a bad thing, as for pursing the MCSE to me its a line ball at this stage of its life, if you have not already got a few of the exams done then personally I would start on the MCITP 2008 track.

As for CISSP - I dont hold this cert and am no where near even starting to think about it, but check out the infosec forums, look for posts by 'keatron' he gives an awesome explaination of what your looking for.

Hope this helps mate.

Hey thanks a bunch!! Yea its def good info, so you think at this ponin I should start working towards the MCITP? What about do the MCSE and then upgrade to MCITP with a few more exams? Because at the moment, Im familiar with exchange and windows server 2003. I think ill probably have a easier time with those exams and then can learn more about the 2008 servers? Arent majority of the people out there still using server 03? What do you think? And thanks for the CISSP contact, ill def contact him for more help

Armymanis

technoob wrote: »

Well guys it is and it isnt. There def are jobs out there, no doubt about it, at least from the postings Ive been going throguh BUT there's a lot of competetion also. At the moment, there just happens to be more expereinced unemployed IT specialists than fresh graduates or people with less experience. So companies out there are snagging the experienced ones first, and then look to the guy with a year or so of experience. So at this point, if you know someone in the inside, its probably just as good as having a cert or degree cause getting in is the problem.

Sounds like the U.S. as well.

pzero

technoob wrote: »

Hey thanks a bunch!! Yea its def good info, so you think at this ponin I should start working towards the MCITP? What about do the MCSE and then upgrade to MCITP with a few more exams? Because at the moment, Im familiar with exchange and windows server 2003. I think ill probably have a easier time with those exams and then can learn more about the 2008 servers? Arent majority of the people out there still using server 03? What do you think? And thanks for the CISSP contact, ill def contact him for more help

Your call really, I cant see MS retiring the MCSE2003 stuff until the next release of the Server OS thats what they did with W2K. Going down the path of 2003 and then the 2 extra upgrade exams is one way to go. I personally felt I left the boat on 2003 so I decided to skip it.

xxxooxxx

At the moment, you have to know both Server 2003 and 2008. The problem with certs is, if you go for MCSE 2003 then you probably don't have much time to learn server 2008 and vice versa.

My advice is don't worry about the certs now. Try to gain a variety of knowledge on different OS platform and software (Backup, SQL, Exchange..etc). In Canada, a lot of company are visualizing their server, if not done already. Most of job postings I've seen require advanced knowledge in visualization and storage (SAN, DAS). Just keep this in mind.

With your background, you will most likely need to start at level1/help desk and work your way up. While doing this, you can use your spare time to get the certs and possibly ask management to allow you to do some work on the server end.

IT is very competitive here in Canada. Even some help desk positions require 3yrs IT experience. Plus, RIM is laying off 2000 people this week, and these folks need jobs too.

technoob

Armymanis wrote: »

Sounds like the U.S. as well.

Pretty much

pzero wrote: »

Your call really, I cant see MS retiring the MCSE2003 stuff until the next release of the Server OS thats what they did with W2K. Going down the path of 2003 and then the 2 extra upgrade exams is one way to go. I personally felt I left the boat on 2003 so I decided to skip it.

So you went with MCITP? When did you get your cert? How long was the whole process?

xxxooxxx wrote: »

At the moment, you have to know both Server 2003 and 2008. The problem with certs is, if you go for MCSE 2003 then you probably don't have much time to learn server 2008 and vice versa.

My advice is don't worry about the certs now. Try to gain a variety of knowledge on different OS platform and software (Backup, SQL, Exchange..etc). In Canada, a lot of company are visualizing their server, if not done already. Most of job postings I've seen require advanced knowledge in visualization and storage (SAN, DAS). Just keep this in mind.

With your background, you will most likely need to start at level1/help desk and work your way up. While doing this, you can use your spare time to get the certs and possibly ask management to allow you to do some work on the server end.

IT is very competitive here in Canada. Even some help desk positions require 3yrs IT experience. Plus, RIM is laying off 2000 people this week, and these folks need jobs too.

You mean virtualization, not visualization, right? As far as learning 03 and 08, from what Ive heard is that, 08 just has additional features on top of what 03 has, so its not like youre starting from scratch. I see what you mean by having knowledge on both since most private companies kinda wanna stick with whats working for as long as they can until they are forced towards the 08 versions.
I know what you mean by helpdesk requiring couple of years of experience to begin with, thats why Im still unemployed lol. Also I did heard bout the layoffs at RIM so yea it def isnt easy trying to get into the market at the moment =(

pzero

technoob wrote: »

So you went with MCITP? When did you get your cert? How long was the whole process?

Im currently working thru MCITP for server 2008 - im taking around 2 months per exam (whilst working full time). The MCITP I currently have is in Windows 7

technoob

pzero wrote: »

Im currently working thru MCITP for server 2008 - im taking around 2 months per exam (whilst working full time). The MCITP I currently have is in Windows 7

Should i start with windows 7?

higherho

technoob wrote: »

Should i start with windows 7?

I would start with what you like more. Do you like Servers more ? Or supporting OS's?

Go for the Server 2008 track and if you want more knowledge in the OS structure than get Windows 7 OS.

technoob

higherho wrote: »

I would start with what you like more. Do you like Servers more ? Or supporting OS's?

Go for the Server 2008 track and if you want more knowledge in the OS structure than get Windows 7 OS.

Yea i wanna gear more towards a network/systems administrator so I think youre right as for going towards the server 2008 track. The enterprise is R2, right? Also on microsofts website, it says '
The Microsoft Certified Technology Specialist (MCTS) certification is a prerequisite for the Microsoft Certified IT Professional (MCITP) certifications and helps validate your troubleshooting and deployment skills. The MCTS certifications are for IT professionals with one or more years of experience. As an MCTS, you help validate your skills on implementing and troubleshooting a particular Microsoft technology.' Now do I need to have a MCTS before starting on the server 08 for MCITP???

PS. ok so this is what I have gathered so far, I need 70-640 and 642 which would give me a MCTS cert. Then I do 646 and I get a MCITP server 2008 cert, correct me if im wrong? What does TS and PRO mean by the exams number listed?

instant000

technoob wrote: »

Yea i wanna gear more towards a network/systems administrator so I think youre right as for going towards the server 2008 track. The enterprise is R2, right?

It is testing on the R2 version of Server 2008, that is correct.

Also on microsofts website, it says '
The Microsoft Certified Technology Specialist (MCTS) certification is a prerequisite for the Microsoft Certified IT Professional (MCITP) certifications and helps validate your troubleshooting and deployment skills. The MCTS certifications are for IT professionals with one or more years of experience. As an MCTS, you help validate your skills on implementing and troubleshooting a particular Microsoft technology.' Now do I need to have a MCTS before starting on the server 08 for MCITP???

You can take the exams in any order. You can't attain the MCITP for that track until you get the pre-requisite MCTS certification, though.

PS. ok so this is what I have gathered so far, I need 70-640 and 642 which would give me a MCTS cert. Then I do 646 and I get a MCITP server 2008 cert, correct me if im wrong? What does TS and PRO mean by the exams number listed?

That's correct, you'd be MCITP:SA at that point.
See this chart:
MCITP (Microsoft Certified IT Professional) | Training Courses for IT Professionals

TS = Technical Specialist
PRO = Professional

SamLea27

Keep in mind that the Microsoft article you pointed to is from 2 years ago, when the question "Is the MCSE Still Worth It?" would be different than it will be now.
MCITP Careers, Trends & Training Recent article on MCITP and certifications. I say go for the MCITP and aim for what you are most interested in. As for CISSP, you need years of experience, another CISSP to vouch for you, and the exam itself is pretty difficult (try this to get an idea) So it is a a worthy goal for in the future, but that would be after you get a few other certs and mores security experience under your belt.

technoob

instant000 wrote: »

You can take the exams in any order. You can't attain the MCITP for that track until you get the pre-requisite MCTS certification, though.

I understand that, what I meant was can I do the 642 before the 640, is it like related in any way? As in would it help me if I did 640 before 642 or are they completely independent of each other

technoob

SamLea27 wrote: »

Keep in mind that the Microsoft article you pointed to is from 2 years ago, when the question "Is the MCSE Still Worth It?" would be different than it will be now.
MCITP Careers, Trends & Training Recent article on MCITP and certifications. I say go for the MCITP and aim for what you are most interested in. As for CISSP, you need years of experience, another CISSP to vouch for you, and the exam itself is pretty difficult (try this to get an idea) So it is a a worthy goal for in the future, but that would be after you get a few other certs and mores security experience under your belt.

Hey thanks for the link, now I see that Exchange server admin salary is off the charts!! That looks very tempting. What do you think, should i start towards the exchange route? As for CISSP, yea I know its sometime I wanna do down the road but for now, grab these certs and kick start my career somewhere other than tech support.

griffinalice29

IT job is more prevalent in Montreal and Toronto, it depends on where you are settled that you are unable to get job. Anyways even I was jobless for almost 6 months and I took up MSCA in 2003 back then. It won’t be a problem doing 2008 as MSCA covers the portion of many versions. CISSP is one of the well known courses requires an experience of 5 years minimum. SO I suggest that you try to achieve the balance 3 experience asap.