To CCNA or NOT to CCNA; that is the question

drkat

.....................

cxzar20

Certifications make you more employable, it doesn't mean you know anything. That is the reason I have mine. The certification that does the best job of verifying competence is the CCIE and even then it is no bet. The perfect example of that is Cisco TAC who are worthless most of the time.

xenodamus

Well, if you're happy with the way your career is progressing, then there's nothing that says you have to be certified by Cisco or any other vendor. Everyone's path is different.

However, certification can only help you. I wouldn't have been hired for my current position without a CCNA, and theres a good chance they will require all of us to have a CCNP within the next couple of years. There will always be places like that out there. You don't have to work for them, of course, but certification will definitely open doors.

pham0329

drkat wrote: »

First let me give you a little background on myself.

I’m 28 living in upstate NY. I've been working with computers for over 17 years now - I had a programming position in 2000-2001 but didn’t really start IT till 2005.

I started off as a W-2 contractor doing deployments and tech support but after contract after contract I got sick of it and went full time with a Telco in 2008. I started off in their tech support department doing internal IT helpdesk. I moved into the NOC where I gained valuable experience in networking and telecom. I currently work for a telecom wholesaler doing VoIP.

I know I should probably get a CCNA - I however have no drive to do so (or any vendor certification for that matter.) I know how to fix 90% of the problems that come across my table every day in and every day out. I've met guys with CCNA's who didn’t know their elbow from Jesus and it's really disappointing. I just don’t feel like the CCNA is worth it. I have experience. I don’t need a "foot in the door" - every time I think about studying for the test I just want to shutdown and go to bed. I'm not quite sure why I feel this way but I'm really concerned I may be making a mistake by not taking it.

What are your thoughts & opinions?

It may be fine now, but what if you were to lose your job? If I were to hire someone, and there's 2 candidate, 1 with a cert, 1 without. If all other things are equal, who do you think I would pick? Also, it sucks but there are companies out there who will only hire people that are certified.
Why lose out on a job because you don't have the required cert?

lordy

If you are happy with your position and career path then it's quite normal that you have no motivation for doing the CCNA.

I started with certs (including the CCNA) when I was out of work and I am now returning to them as I want to become self-employed.

Bl8ckr0uter

If it is all cisco kit you work with, consider getting the CCNA just to "sure up" that experience. When I worked in a NOC, CCNA was a major factor in getting and keeping that job. I am now a network engineer and I think that the CCNA and CCNA:S were the reason why I got this job. My boss now is asking me to do CCNP:S (and I'll probably end up doing CCNP as well). IMO certs don't hold as much value as experience but they are a multiplier to experience, making your experience shine. Get the CCNA then take a break or do something that you want to do. You could also talk to your boss and see if there are any certs they want you to do particularly.

it_consultant

drkat wrote: »

First let me give you a little background on myself.

I’m 28 living in upstate NY. I've been working with computers for over 17 years now - I had a programming position in 2000-2001 but didn’t really start IT till 2005.

I started off as a W-2 contractor doing deployments and tech support but after contract after contract I got sick of it and went full time with a Telco in 2008. I started off in their tech support department doing internal IT helpdesk. I moved into the NOC where I gained valuable experience in networking and telecom. I currently work for a telecom wholesaler doing VoIP.

I know I should probably get a CCNA - I however have no drive to do so (or any vendor certification for that matter.) I know how to fix 90% of the problems that come across my table every day in and every day out. I've met guys with CCNA's who didn’t know their elbow from Jesus and it's really disappointing. I just don’t feel like the CCNA is worth it. I have experience. I don’t need a "foot in the door" - every time I think about studying for the test I just want to shutdown and go to bed. I'm not quite sure why I feel this way but I'm really concerned I may be making a mistake by not taking it.

What are your thoughts & opinions?

Are you upstate like Albany or upstate like Watertown?

hiddenknight821

drkat wrote: »

Rochester NY

I appreciate the answers - I guess I wouldnt want to miss out on an opportunity. The CCNA material is just so boring!

I attended school (orange and brown) there. I missed the place already. I'm thinking about visiting again in September when I finish up my internship.

I don't know how you find the CCNA material extremely boring, but if you are reading Odom's book then I can see where you are coming from. That's the only Cisco books I read. You should read Todd Lammle's book since I heard it makes Cisco sounds fun. Skip the stuff you already know, like the OSI layer or other basic networking stuff that you already picked up from your experience. That's probably what put you to sleep.

Slowhand

As others have said, the CCNA - not to mention CCNP and CCIE - is very helpful in helping you find other work or climb the ladder where you are now. Much like a degree, certs can be the difference between a nice, fat promotion for you, or the d-bag that sits at the next desk who talks on his phone and plays WoW all day instead of working.

All joking aside, though, perhaps you should be asking yourself the question that a hiring manager for a new or higher-level job would be asking you:

"If you know this stuff so well, why don't you have the CCNA?"

It was a question I used to get a lot before passing the exam, usually asked of me right after I laid out my background in networking and working with routers and switches. I've seen the same question pop up in regards to the MCITP, MCSE, and a whole slew of other certs, both here on TechExams.net and with colleagues at work. It's all about perception, I guess, and it's all too easy to be pigeonholed and be stuck where you are if you aren't seen as someone who keeps his skills up to date.

it_consultant

drkat wrote: »

Rochester NY

I appreciate the answers - I guess I wouldnt want to miss out on an opportunity. The CCNA material is just so boring!

Yep, I used to live in Albany and before that Plattsburgh. CCNA is REALLY boring to read about so I suggest you take a class. A good instructor will spice up the material a little. Once you know it you know it, it really underpins a good understanding of networks even if you never put a switchport into a vlan by cli in your whole career.

pham0329

Slowhand wrote: »

All joking aside, though, perhaps you should be asking yourself the question that a hiring manager for a new or higher-level job would be asking you:

"If you know this stuff so well, why don't you have the CCNA?"

This is a good point. I guess if I were to give it some thoughts, I would come to the conclusion that the person isn't dedicated or is just lazy. I have a friend who's super smart, but gets horrible grades in school because he's lazy and doesn't do the work...wouldn't want the hiring manager to have that same impression on you!

drkat

pham0329 wrote: »

This is a good point. I guess if I were to give it some thoughts, I would come to the conclusion that the person isn't dedicated or is just lazy. I have a friend who's super smart, but gets horrible grades in school because he's lazy and doesn't do the work...wouldn't want the hiring manager to have that same impression on you!

True - dont want to look like a lazy bum for the hiring manager. I'll try lammle's books. I tried CBT nuggets and Bosom books and it just bored me to death. Prolly the stuff I already knew.

ZachB

drkat wrote: »

Rochester NY

I appreciate the answers - I guess I wouldnt want to miss out on an opportunity. The CCNA material is just so boring!

To each their own I guess. I've just started my CCNA journey and will be starting on the CCNP as soon as I finish. I find the material fascinating and I'm enjoying every minute of study.

That being said, you may think you know everything but once you go through CCNA I'm betting there's at least a few chunks that could use some fill in.

Certs never hurt. Having the letters there don't prove you know everything, but studying and passing will give you a much better chance of answering interview questions correctly when you go to find a new job. You may think you don't need a food in the door, but you often times need to get past HR who may not even pass your resume on to those who really matter unless you meet certain criteria.

alxx

It might seem boring but its a lot less boring than a lot of uni course stuff.
Quantum physics especially Quantum optics sends me to sleep and the current statistical physics subject I'm currently doing.

Here(Sydney Australia) you need certs to get past the HR people.
No certs (of what ever sort) you just don't get on the list for job interviews.
Plus it doesn't hurt to have a current first aid cert.

One of the reasons I'm getting mine as I only have a trade certificate
in Aircraft Maintenance.

10 years experience as an Aircraft Maintenance Engineer Avionics
Eight years experience with embedded systems/sensor systems
(microcontrollers, fpgas and mobile processors) and four years linux development experience.

Currently slowly finishing a Applied Physics and Computer Systems Engineering double degree (it'll have been 11 or 12 years part time when I'm finally finished)

idr0p

Wow I went to school at "Orange and Brown" there also. I say go to the CCNA. if anything it gives a leg up and prepares you for the never ending cycle of IT certification.

badrottie

Certifications are a differentiator and no more. You could have a combination of undergraduate and graduate degrees, hold every top-tier certification there is, and still not make it into the third round of interviews. Why?

Personality.

If a candidate does not have the desired character traits that we require in our business, they will not be considered for the position. If you cannot work with our team, or work with our clients, that will exclude you from being hired. Credentials will only get you so far. The rest is up to the individual.

Zartanasaurus

Start applying for jobs that are the next step up for you. If you get the job, you didn't need the CCNA. If you aren't even getting interviews, the lack of easily scannable requirements by an HR drone may be holding you back.

logicmyfoot

Why don't you just sit for the exam, if you are already familiar with the stuff just go for the cert.

drkat

I should... Im just debating on what I really wanna do ya know? I like solving problems and fixing stuff but corporate is getting me down

alxx

Thats why I like working in R&D but working in a research type lab at a uni, way to many academics to deal with.

Better to do a cert than not do one and need it down the track.

If you haven't done any study for a while its just a matter of starting slowly and getting your head back in gear
and build up to it.

I'd suggest getting the cbt nuggets ccent/ICND1 videos and watching them and go from there.
There's a 60 min free trial on their website

earweed

As has been said before, certs may give you the "one-up" over the other guy when competing for a job. A lot of places value them and you wont get past HR without them.With the experience you seem to have it shouldn't be too hard for you. The CCNA is no walk in the park as some of our senior network engineers where I work have told me it's the hardest Cisco test they have taken. I'm taking mine the week after next.

Bradwmetal

drkat wrote: »

Rochester NY

I appreciate the answers - I guess I wouldnt want to miss out on an opportunity. The CCNA material is just so boring!

You must be reading the Cisco press books. Or even worse the Cisco CCNA Exploration.., they are SOOOOO boring.
I agree with the others, try the ones by Jeremy Cioara or Todd Lammle .. both are good. I got the Wendell Odem one too, good info but dry. Better yet watch the CBT Nuggets videos. Jeremy is a great teacher, funny and his enthusiasm infects you with the Cisco Bug. Of course I could sit for hours at routers or in Packet Tracer

kurosaki00

Ive met ppl who dont have a certification and are 6 figure$$ level technicians or engineers.

And I know people who have certs and are ok and bleh

You will find this everywhere in life not just cert world.

Personally I like certifications not only for the boost to my resume (I'm rather entry level) but I like that gratification of having a physical thing that tells you "Hey you passed this challenge".
Makes me feel awesome.
Although I just have 3 very entry level certifications and my experience is probably a 1/50th of most ppl in this forum.

Like someone else said, if you know the stuff why just not go for it?
ANd if not for the recognition, maybe just go for your personal pride.

drkat

good points guys. I'm actually going to go a different route and get certified in telecom vendor(s) equipment such as Avaya, Broadsoft and the likes. I'm focusing more on the VoIP side and would rather keep that in focus as it actually interests me instead of Routing & Switching.

drkat

I've come to the conclusion that I dont want to "sit at routers or packet tracer for hours"

I'm actively looking for a different avenue to take that is actually INTERESTING

Gonna just focus on the VoIP Specific certifications for now

alxx

Good luck!

Personally I'd do both. Voip packets still have to be switched and routed and QOS becomes even more important.

Don't some of the telco vendor certs assume ccna ?

varelg

drkat wrote: »

I've come to the conclusion that I dont want to "sit at routers or packet tracer for hours"

I'm actively looking for a different avenue to take that is actually INTERESTING

Gonna just focus on the VoIP Specific certifications for now

VoIP is actually what got me into Linux (Asterisk and later its forks), so are there any particular certs that you are looking at? I know Fonality was offering some certs but the price was just ridicolous...

drkat

varelg wrote: »

VoIP is actually what got me into Linux (Asterisk and later its forks), so are there any particular certs that you are looking at? I know Fonality was offering some certs but the price was just ridicolous...

Trying to find some LOL - best I could find is a Broadworks Certified Platform Admin - a lot of telco are using broadsoft for their hosted class 5

drkat

With regard to QoS - I dont have an issue switching and routing voip traffic and managing congestion control. I however have no real interest in the CCNA objectives. I'm much more interested in the provider side of VoIP (Hosted Services, PBX, etc) and would really like to hone my skills just in these areas. I've been a "generalist" for all too long. If we're designing voice qos using say our 7960's we can already use existing matching for ef since the phones tag their packets and we have a voice vlan. We simply do 3 queues; an ef/af41/af21 queue and percent them out accordingly - example: rtp should go ef while signalling goes into af41 since our call setup packets aren't as important as the media - with regard to the "internet or lan" traffic we'll throw it in our af41 except may http will go to af21 or class-default since our priority isnt to make sure the user can get to google during congestion.




I'm going to be looking I think at the Cisco Specialist certs that dont require the pre requisite - if it wasnt for the NA voice to have an NA i'd take that.

One of your biggest concerns with QOS esp for leased line customers is to make sure your queues are setup to match the provider and that your CIR/PIR (if frame) is setup correctly. You will not believe the amount of CRAP that happens when you don't have matching policies with your PE.

drkat

meh so much for all of this...

Shanman

I have had my CCNA for a couple of weeks now and voice really interest me to. My only concern from what I can tell is the price to build my lab. I have 3 2620xm and 2 2950s. It looks like i will need to spend a couple of thousand to get a lab off the ground