System Administrator Job Role will soon be gone?

mikey343

hey everyone I just wanted to say ive been watching this forums for awhile and there are alot of helpful people here anyways thought I should sign up.

just to start off my first post I've been reading in a few sites that the System Administrator Job Role will soon be gone is this true? I cant remember which site I read it on but I would like to hear your opinion on this matter.

Everyone

Replaced by what? The role may shift, but as long as people need servers, it will never go away.

cyberguypr

Maybe when the machines become self-aware and administer themselves. I hope you can remember where you read that so you can scratch that site off your list.

Welcome aboard.

tpatt100

I think companies and developers want more work consolidation to reduce employee costs. Doubt the role itself will ever go away

crrussell3

I imagine this article was heavily focused on "The Amazing Cloud" and what it can all do for you? Either way, Sys Admins aren't going anywhere. Our role might shift with virtualization (server/desktop) becoming the norm, "cloud" services (or lack there of), etc.

But when they become self-aware, I am looking for a new career

MrRyte

tpatt100 wrote: »

I think companies and developers want more work consolidation to reduce employee costs. Doubt the role itself will ever go away

That seems more likely; instead of being specifically labeled as a SysAdmin it will be combined with other IT job responsibilities.

And I doubt that we would ever allow computers to become so self-aware that they'd be able to diagnose and correct themselves. Nobody wants to see Skynet become a reality.....

Everyone

I for one, weclome our new computer overlords.

Tackle

Everyone wrote: »

I for one, weclome our new computer overlords.

All hail the might computer!

RobertKaucher

We discussed this topic most recently here http://www.techexams.net/forums/off-topic/69992-jobs-obsolete.html

Everyone wrote: »

Replaced by what? The role may shift, but as long as people need servers, it will never go away.

By one guy, who requires increasingly less knowledge, instead of a team of skilled individuals. Until eventually even these teams of one are gone. I don't think you can argue that the guys who built coaches were all easily transitioned to the automotive industry when the assembly line came about.

Everyone wrote: »

I for one, weclome our new computer overlords.

Did I say overloards? I meant protectors.
Chiron Beta Prime - YouTube

pham0329

LucasMN wrote: »

All hail the might computer!

You guys must have not watched i.robots

UnixGuy

Mmmm, simply put : No.

However, a proactive smart System Administrator should always be prepared and have more skills such as storage or programming/scripting or database, management or service management, backups...etc. Make yourself more marketable, and try to have knowledge in more than one area (after becoming an expert in at least one area). This should help keeping you more employable. Plus certs and degrees if you can..

the_Grinch

I'm thinking of going the programming route, seems a little more safe a the moment Lots of job postings for software engineers and web developers!

UnixGuy

more jobs to come for smart phones, tablets, ...the cloud maybe...

the_Grinch wrote: »

I'm thinking of going the programming route, seems a little more safe a the moment Lots of job postings for software engineers and web developers!

jibbajabba

None of my "System Administrator" jobs were called "System Administrator" for 10+ years

jamesp1983

know virtualization...

RobertKaucher

'Cloud computing will destroy jobs' | IT employment | Expert opinion
Will Cloud Computing Mean Fewer IT Jobs? | Cloud Computing Journal
HP: Cloud computing will cut 'dull' IT jobs - ZDNet
http://gigaom.com/2009/03/15/will-a-shift-to-cloud-computing-create-or-cut-jobs/

Today’s laid-off systems administrators, however, are not likely landing these newly formed IT 2.0 jobs. They have been too busy applying duct tape and Band-Aids to existing infrastructures to stay on top of the cutting edge. Nearly a year and a half ago, already, I heard a FedEx Corporate Services IT executive bemoan how ill-equipped his team was to deal with the division’s increasingly fabric-like infrastructure. He was neither the first nor the last to express that sentiment.

In the past most new technologies have created new jobs and only caused disruption in the industry they are suplanting. But the fact is we are hitting a point where automation is really starting to cut into the middle tier of skilled jobs as well as unskilled jobs. Even if you don't subscribe to the extreme view of things that I do, I don't believe that you ignore the fact that this time is different. The new technologies on the horizon are going to have a major impact on the job market and we can't just sit around and hope that the economic factors will all just work themseleves out. It is not in fact a law that new technologies always create more jobs than they take away. You should not trick yourself into believing that any field within IT is immune to this.

The fact is this: if I can write a 50 line PowerShell script that deploys as many virtualized servers as I want (100 if I have the cloud space), joins them to the domain, installs, SQL Server on a few and then installs SharePoint on the rest joining them to the same farm and then load balances them; what do I need any of you for?

Well, there is still the construction industry, right? Construction Laser Level & Grading - YouTube Notice that the handheld device he is using to program the grader is going to be replaced by a mobile device app (I know the guy who owns the patent, he works in the office to my left) do you really think the guy "driving" the equipment is actually doing anything? He's only there to cover someone's @$$ legally and there are already companies who are doing it without a human. I guess we can all go work at McDonald's... Oh wait McDonalds Touch Interface Ordering System - YouTube I guess not.

The only thing keeping people from widely adopting cloud based systems is fear. There is too much uncertainty around how any given company's data is being stored and who has access to it as well as the Amazon fiasco of a few months ago. Once these issues get sorted out you will see, initially I think smaller companies, migrating into "the cloud" extremely fast. Learn design/architect level skills, get your mind around the new technology coming out, master virtualization, keep ahead of the curve DON'T assume that 10 years from now is going to be just like today with faster computers.

Everyone

@RobertKaucher

You still need someone to maintain the automation, and to fix it when it fails, plus do things manually while it is being fixed. Those are "Admin" level tasks.

The person implementing it is your Engineer.

The person designing it, is your Architect.

Sometimes all of those are the same person.

The jobs don't go away because of automation and virtualization, they just evolve, which I think is really you're point, evolve with them, or get left behind.

There may end up being fewer out there, but they won't go away all together.

RobertKaucher

Everyone wrote: »

@RobertKaucher

You still need someone to maintain the automation, and to fix it when it fails, plus do things manually while it is being fixed. Those are "Admin" level tasks.

The person implementing it is your Engineer.

The person designing it, is your Architect.

Sometimes all of those are the same person.

The jobs don't go away because of automation and virtualization, they just evolve, which I think is really you're point, evolve with them, or get left behind.

There may end up being fewer out there, but they won't go away all together.

The horse and buggy argument? It's still here. I guess that industry is doing fine, right?



But that is not a fair comparisson because the automotive industry replaced the buggy with the car and reduced the price of the car to make is more affordable. It BOTH expanded the need for the goods and that expansion generated more jobs. It was a positive feedback loop, for a time. But this is different. When I can replace 150 teams of 3 admins with a single team of 5 due to advances in software where do the 450 guys go to get jobs? Do they just transition their jobs to become developers? Not likely. Then you have to consider that the same sort fo software-based productivity enhancement is occuring in the software industry.

I don't think that we can just assume that the types of technology that we are seeing today are going to allow for the type of job growth we saw in the past and we need to address this. The UK is already considering legislation because software based trading is beginning to overtake humans doing the same job. Automated software won't drop 2 billion on unauthorized trades like that rogue UBS trader did. It does not lodge HR complaints, it does not need an HR department, nor a vacation, nor sick time.

"Evolve or be left behind" - Now that's the truth. The real question is, evolve into what? And is there going to be anything left?

Secu

RobertKaucher wrote: »

"Evolve or be left behind" - Now that's the truth. The real question is, evolve into what? And is there going to be anything left?

See we should be considering that since the IT industry is always evolving jobs will disappear. Maybe not today or tomorrow but soon and the IT industry will also become more global we will be fighting for jobs with people everywhere. Scarey thought considering I'm in my mid 20's.

Turgon

RobertKaucher wrote: »

'Cloud computing will destroy jobs' | IT employment | Expert opinion
Will Cloud Computing Mean Fewer IT Jobs? | Cloud Computing Journal
HP: Cloud computing will cut 'dull' IT jobs - ZDNet
http://gigaom.com/2009/03/15/will-a-shift-to-cloud-computing-create-or-cut-jobs/


In the past most new technologies have created new jobs and only caused disruption in the industry they are suplanting. But the fact is we are hitting a point where automation is really starting to cut into the middle tier of skilled jobs as well as unskilled jobs. Even if you don't subscribe to the extreme view of things that I do, I don't believe that you ignore the fact that this time is different. The new technologies on the horizon are going to have a major impact on the job market and we can't just sit around and hope that the economic factors will all just work themseleves out. It is not in fact a law that new technologies always create more jobs than they take away. You should not trick yourself into believing that any field within IT is immune to this.

The fact is this: if I can write a 50 line PowerShell script that deploys as many virtualized servers as I want (100 if I have the cloud space), joins them to the domain, installs, SQL Server on a few and then installs SharePoint on the rest joining them to the same farm and then load balances them; what do I need any of you for?

Well, there is still the construction industry, right? Construction Laser Level & Grading - YouTube Notice that the handheld device he is using to program the grader is going to be replaced by a mobile device app (I know the guy who owns the patent, he works in the office to my left) do you really think the guy "driving" the equipment is actually doing anything? He's only there to cover someone's @$$ legally and there are already companies who are doing it without a human. I guess we can all go work at McDonald's... Oh wait McDonalds Touch Interface Ordering System - YouTube I guess not.

The only thing keeping people from widely adopting cloud based systems is fear. There is too much uncertainty around how any given company's data is being stored and who has access to it as well as the Amazon fiasco of a few months ago. Once these issues get sorted out you will see, initially I think smaller companies, migrating into "the cloud" extremely fast. Learn design/architect level skills, get your mind around the new technology coming out, master virtualization, keep ahead of the curve DON'T assume that 10 years from now is going to be just like today with faster computers.

To be honest with you Robert, non of this comes as news to me, neither should it for anyone on the forum. Everything you say will come to pass in one form or another, the question is to what extent. What is happening is the industrialisation of IT provisioning. Vendors have been trying to move TCO to a vanishing point for years now. The systems administrator role is constantly changing but I believe within 5 years we will need many fewer of them. The large corporations will head to the vanishing point first leaving many people with similar skills scrambling for the traditionally skilled SA roles where there is still enough infrastructure around to warrant support. These will primarily be the small and medium sized companies. Those jobs will be stressful and low paid as there will be an increasing surplus of trad SA's looking for work. The savvy SA will be working for companies and corporations that deliver the future solutions and skilled in the art of scale and tools to accomplish scale and I dont mean a large network supporting a single customer, rather a shared service supporting thousands of customers. The outlook for IT provisioners both engineers and support admins with stock in trade skills working for single customers is increasingly bleak. Reposition, retrain and look to 2020 for longivity in this industry by getting experience working for a vendor or an outsourcer with global reach.

UnixGuy

Turgon wrote: »

.... The savvy SA will be working for companies and corporations that deliver the future solutions and skilled in the art of scale and tools to accomplish scale and I dont mean a large network supporting a single customer, rather a shared service supporting thousands of customers. ....

+1

Admins, engineers, architects working for service providers supporting cloud-like solutions. I agree..

RobertKaucher

Turgon wrote: »

The outlook for IT provisioners both engineers and support admins with stock in trade skills working for single customers is increasingly bleak. Reposition, retrain and look to 2020 for longivity in this industry by getting experience working for a vendor or an outsourcer with global reach.

First and foremost, the fact that someone of your brain power agrees with me on so much of this is kind of disturbing. I might actually be right.

What I'm preaching here is my concern that new technologies are not creating more jobs than they are replacing. We are not providing a tangible product and making it cheaper for an ever expanding consumer base. I know we can't see clearly what the future holds, but as a society I believe it is wrong to just sit and hope that the free market will work things out because it always has. In the past it was easy to say that people in the coach industry could be put to work in the auto industry. But the entire point of the coming change in IT is saving money by cutting overhead. Where does the overhead go? To what new industry? This isn't a new technology replacing another - it is the same technology moving to a more efficient, lower cost business model. And the cost savings is in jobs. And new jobs that are created are of a starkly different type requiring several years of education.

And my concern in not specifically focused on IT. It's focused on the "average person" job market. These mid-to-low level skills that don't require a ton of theoretical knowledge but might need a degree, down to the girl running register at McDonald's or flipping burgers. Because the same sort of thing is being seen in other idustries. I mean, do we expect people who are being replaced by "self checkout" to get jobs in the tech industry building the devices that have replaced them?

Turgon

UnixGuy wrote: »

+1

Admins, engineers, architects working for service providers supporting cloud-like solutions. I agree..

Just like me then. Im the lead technical architect for my shop. Beware though, the responsibilities and hours are rough. Time to study for the CCIE? Zero. Honestly though, its the area to be in because leveraging the economies of scale and the benefits of an outsourcer that already has the datacenter waiting for the customer is what the internal presentations of company x or y are putting up. Granted 'cloud' and all it's variants has a way to go and still has problems, but that's not important. The Harvard grad running things in your shop will promote it because if he didn't, someone that wants his job will.

Turgon

RobertKaucher wrote: »

First and foremost, the fact that someone of your brain power agrees with me on so much of this is kind of disturbing. I might actually be right.

What I'm preaching here is my concern that new technologies are not creating more jobs than they are replacing. We are not providing a tangible product and making it cheaper for an ever expanding consumer base. I know we can't see clearly what the future holds, but as a society I believe it is wrong to just sit and hope that the free market will work things out because it always has. In the past it was easy to say that people in the coach industry could be put to work in the auto industry. But the entire point of the coming change in IT is saving money by cutting overhead. Where does the overhead go? To what new industry? This isn't a new technology replacing another - it is the same technology moving to a more efficient, lower cost business model. And the cost savings is in jobs. And new jobs that are created are of a starkly different type requiring several years of education.

And my concern in not specifically focused on IT. It's focused on the "average person" job market. These mid-to-low level skills that don't require a ton of theoretical knowledge but might need a degree, down to the girl running register at McDonald's or flipping burgers. Because the same sort of thing is being seen in other idustries. I mean, do we expect people who are being replaced by "self checkout" to get jobs in the tech industry building the devices that have replaced them?

Thanks for the compliment, but I dont count myself as one that has a superior intellect. Perhaps Im just more experience than many people on here. The issue I have with the free market is it is not at all concerned with giving the average person a nice life through honest hard work. The free market is about making a few people a ton of money. I will stop there before the thread gets locked.

What is happening to IT has happened to *everything*. Now, the end of the world will not happen overnight, so for many people working hard chugging along they will be just fine for a while. But yes, there will be changes. One thing to consider is *grunt*. When the money poured into IT we needed a lot of grunt. Today, companies want to get rid of it. It costs money, salaries that kind of thing. To prosper in IT you need to move out of the grunt class and into the officer class so you are career mobile. Let's take security as an example. Full of grunts, and lots more wanting to join that eschelon to find a steady job. It's getting very expensive for companies to keep all these people on. Meanwhile, CIO's have noticed this, politicians have noticed this and vendors have noticed this. Expect over the next 5 years layoffs of security people for outsourced solutions.
That's one example, and a little bit niche, but there are others much more generalist that will affect helpdesk, desktop support, systems admins and network engineers in the years ahead. The jobs will go. What they are replaced with remains to be seen.

kurosaki00

my position is technically called "System Administrator"
but I work with virtualization, servers, exchange, email, smpp, computers, routing, databases, port tunneling, and some other stuff

so no, I dont think it will go away any time soon

Turgon

You have some good skills. In time more of what you do will be automated or outsourced. Look at what is happening globally and be part of that.

shodown

Virtualization can end up in someone else's could
Severs, could end up virtual in someone elses data center
Exchange can be outsourced
routing can be outsourced to a service provider
databases no to sure of
port tunneling outsourced to a provider


you see the point. Depending on the size of your company if its smaller than 1000 people my current company can come in and replace all you guys way cheaper than what they are paying your IT staff, we would leave your technology director and 1 underling around to look at lights for us. All of the work you require can be done by my company for thousands less than you and we are going to be much better than you cause its 30-40 off us who can bounce ideas off each other.


Not trying to hate on what you are doing, but be aware. Things are changing and you could be one MSP's plan away from being wiped out

RobertKaucher

Marc Andreessen on Why Software Is Eating the World - WSJ.com

Interesting article on the theme.