starting MCITP, do i need to buy a actual server??

solnsusie

Hi all!!!

Im starting next week my MCITP self traning course, but i have one big problem, how do i get to study on the real world, do i need to buy an actual server? or can i get a virtual server?

please help me out

Thanks

erpadmin

solnsusie wrote: »

Hi all!!!

Im starting next week my MCITP self traning course, but i have one big problem, how do i get to study on the real world, do i need to buy an actual server? or can i get a virtual server?

please help me out

(Deep sigh...)

For the Windows Server 2008 exams, you don't need an actual server, however, it will help out a lot if you want to do "real world." If your computer is good enough for at least one VM it might help. (Chances are it won't.)

Microsoft does offer virtual labs if finances are an issue. There are a good amount of folks who have spec'ed out servers to be used for home (they do not have to be $2k+ machines...but you'll want at a bare minimum 8GB of RAM, an i3 processor, a 120 SSD or two) Then of course, the actual O/Ses, which you could get legitimately through dreamspark.com or a college's MSDN-AA partnership. Also, there is always a Technet Pro subscription, but that can be costly. (Though I do like mine. )

Thanks

superjerelman

If you don't need/want to learn the hardware right now then go with a virtual server! Make sure you have a lot of ram and hard drive space for multiple virtual client and server systems on your host Machine!

ptilsen

To add to what Erp said, if you have a sufficiently power desktop, you can lab 85% of the material in a virtual environment using VirtualBox, VMWare Player, VirtualPC, etc. Otherwise, having a dedicated server is really nice. The cheapest/easiest route is often to get used server, something like a Proliant ML or DL 1xx/3xx G5, since these servers will typically come with 8GB of RAM or more along with two quad-core processors. Otherwise, a powerful lab server can be built for under $900, and a suitable server for under $600.

Anyway, search the forums for this. There are a lot of threads, especially recently, about labbing either from your main desktop or a dedicated system.

solnsusie

superjerelman wrote: »

If you don't need/want to learn the hardware right now then go with a virtual server! Make sure you have a lot of ram and hard drive space for multiple virtual client and server systems on your host Machine!

thanks for your help.
No, i im not going to learn now the hardware part, can you please explain it to me in more detaile, my computer have 3GB RAM, 3.10 GHz Proceser, can i go with that? and where can i download this Virtual Server? and where can i get a step-by-step instructions how to set it up? and do i need an actuall copy of Server 2008 OS?
thanks again for all your great help!!

solnsusie

ptilsen wrote: »

To add to what Erp said, if you have a sufficiently power desktop, you can lab 85% of the material in a virtual environment using VirtualBox, VMWare Player, VirtualPC, etc. Otherwise, having a dedicated server is really nice. The cheapest/easiest route is often to get used server, something like a Proliant ML or DL 1xx/3xx G5, since these servers will typically come with 8GB of RAM or more along with two quad-core processors. Otherwise, a powerful lab server can be built for under $900, and a suitable server for under $600.

Anyway, search the forums for this. There are a lot of threads, especially recently, about labbing either from your main desktop or a dedicated system.

thanks for your reply!!
i would better prefare to go with virtual, since i dont have room in my apartment where to keep a real server, will i miss something when i go with virtual then with a real server?

solnsusie

so, in order to work with a virtual server, what is the requirements for my computer to handle it, and where can i download it, and where can i get instructions how to set it up??? and do i need to buy the Server 2008 software? or is it coming allready with the virtual server?
thanks again

Tackle

solnsusie wrote: »

so, in order to work with a virtual server, what is the requirements for my computer to handle it, and where can i download it, and where can i get instructions how to set it up??? and do i need to buy the Server 2008 software? or is it coming allready with the virtual server?
thanks again

You're computer processor needs to be able to support virtualization. If it does suport VT, you'll need to then download Virtual PC or VMware Workstation. Virtual PC is free I think, and VMware workstation is a paid software. Once it's downloaded and installed, you create a "virtual machine" and install the OS on it. You will essentially need enough ram to run a 2 operating systems. 3GB will just barely be enough if I had to guess.

You'll have to search the net for a "how to" for creating your VM, but it's very simple.

If you have an edu e-mail address, you can download a full copy of Windows Server 2008r2 from Dreamspark.com. If you don't have an edu e-mail address, you can download a copy from here. The trial is 180 days, but you can "re-arm" it up to 3 times IIRC.

Follow this tutorial or look on Technet for setting up a 2008 r2 domain controller.

solnsusie

LucasMN wrote: »

You're computer processor needs to be able to support virtualization. If it does suport VT, you'll need to then download Virtual PC or VMware Workstation. Virtual PC is free I think, and VMware workstation is a paid software. Once it's downloaded and installed, you create a "virtual machine" and install the OS on it.

You'll have to search the net for a "how to" for creating your VM, but it's very simple.

If you have an edu e-mail address, you can download a full copy of Windows Server 2008r2 from Dreamspark.com. If you don't have an edu e-mail address, you can download a copy from here. The trial is 180 days, but you can "re-arm" it up to 3 times IIRC.

Follow this tutorial or look on Technet for setting up a 2008 r2 domain controller.

oh you and all the people here are great help!!
how do i know if my computer support virtualization? and if not what can i do other then to buy a new one??

Tackle

solnsusie wrote: »

oh you and all the people here are great help!!
how do i know if my computer support virtualization? and if not what can i do other then to buy a new one??

Pretty basic questions.
Since you do have your A+, I'm going to let you figure them out on your own. Think Google.com...

solnsusie

LucasMN wrote: »

Since you do have your A+, I'm going to let you figure that one out on your own. Think Google.com...

by the way, i do know how to check if its supporting, I just want to figure out if you are a A+ certified!!!! Since it’s not mentioned in your certifications.

Tackle

I am not. Where I am at, job and experience wise, an A+ would not benefit me except for adding a line to my resume...if I even put it on there.

cyberguypr

We've been down this road numerous times. To the OP, what we recommend is reading and researching a lot and then bring us questions if you get stuck. Yes, we can give you links to step-by-step instructions on everything you can think of but trust me, it will be more fun and you will learn more if you try it on your own first. I know this can be overwhelming since you don't have much experience but everyone has to start somewhere.

As the crew mentioned, go ahead and spend some time searching here. There are numerous threads discussing how to create labs from zero or existing hardware, vitalization, etc. specifically geared towards MCITP:SA and EA. Given the info you provided regarding not wanting server hardware I would start by exploring the different virtualization options already mentioned. We all have favorites. Some like VMware Workstation or vSphere, others like Virtualbox, etc. Get to know their features and limitations so you can evaluate what may work for you. We can tell you use this or that, but if you hate it, we've failed.

solnsusie

cyberguypr wrote: »

We've been down this road numerous times. To the OP, what we recommend is reading and researching a lot and then bring us questions if you get stuck. Yes, we can give you links to step-by-step instructions on everything you can think of but trust me, it will be more fun and you will learn more if you try it on your own first. I know this can be overwhelming since you don't have much experience but everyone has to start somewhere.

im the OP, you are 100%, but i want to start studying next week sunday, and since i just finished this last tuesday with the Cisco CCNA, i didnt have the time to do this research before, and i dont want to waste any time of researching this technical problem,

cyberguypr wrote: »

As the crew mentioned, go ahead and spend some time searching here. There are numerous threads discussing how to create labs from zero or existing hardware, vitalization, etc. specifically geared towards MCITP:SA and EA. Given the info you provided regarding not wanting server hardware I would start by exploring the different virtualization options already mentioned. We all have favorites. Some like VMware Workstation or vSphere, others like Virtualbox, etc. Get to know their features and limitations so you can evaluate what may work for you. We can tell you use this or that, but if you hate it, we've failed.

i would sugest to creat a sticky post with all this specs of each of them, virtual or hardware, what kind of virtual etc.....

Tackle

solnsusie wrote: »

im the OP, you are 100%, but i want to start studying next week sunday, and since i just finished this last tuesday with the Cisco CCNA, i didnt have the time to do this research before, and i dont want to waste any time of researching this technical problem,

i would sugest to creat a sticky post with all this specs of each of them, virtual or hardware, what kind of virtual etc.....

Are you under the gun to get these certs knocked out in a set amount of time? Researching is a big part of most IT professionals jobs. It WILL save you time and money in the long run.

There are wayyy too many combinations and options to list them all. The most common one's have been posted in this thread. I highly suggest researching and deciding what works best for YOU.
I know you say you are in an apartment and have no room for a server, but this is ideally the best way to lab. I too live in an apartment and have found space for my Dell T110 Server.

erpadmin

solnsusie wrote: »

i would sugest to creat a sticky post with all this specs of each of them, virtual or hardware, what kind of virtual etc.....

You're gonna find that most folks are very friendly and will not mind helping others out....

HOWEVER, the one person who can help you out the most is you...you have to put in SOME effort to find the answers that you seek.....

For example....while you were busy admonishing Lucas for not having an A+ (up until 6 years ago, I didn't have A+, but I was already configuring servers by that time... ), you could have gone to the Virtualization forum on TechExams and see LABS discussed and what others were doing for labs. I would like to think that my response to you was somewhat helpful, but since I didn't spoonfood feed you, I guess you felt it wasn't warranted.

Whatever though....best of luck in your endeavors.

Slowhand

solnsusie wrote: »

im the OP, you are 100%, but i want to start studying next week sunday, and since i just finished this last tuesday with the Cisco CCNA, i didnt have the time to do this research before, and i dont want to waste any time of researching this technical problem,

I don't know if I'd ever call time spent doing research and learning a waste. If you spend the time researching and doing the leg-work, you can get more thorough answers from a forum like this one when you're stuck on specifics, rather than asking open-ended questions which require others to do the work for you.

solnsusie wrote: »

i would sugest to creat a sticky post with all this specs of each of them, virtual or hardware, what kind of virtual etc.....

Not a bad idea. If you look around the forums, particularly the Windows forums, you'll see that a good number of the stickies are user-created threads that have turned out to be so valuable that they deserved being put at the top of the search for everyone to see. TechExams.net is the very quintessence of user-generated content, and if you can't find something here that you'd like to see then the first thing I'd recommend is to do a write-up of your own and post it as a thread. If it's thorough and others find it helpful, I or one of the other mods will be more than happy to make it a sticky.

jameshardy2012

Just my tuppence here - if you go down the virtualised server road then you are, in my opinion, opening yourself up for a fall eventually. Imagine landing a server admin role and being asked to build a server from scratch. are you able to build and rack it, what about the RAID array, what about HBA fibre connections. however if you already have experience of this from NT/2000/2003/Linux/UNIX etc then by all means go virtual.

I'm concerned with your comment "i didnt have the time to do this research before, and i dont want to waste any time of researching this technical problem," - A techy who isnt concerned researching something and just asks will fall down eventually - you want the cert then you have to put in the donkey work.

ptilsen

jameshardy2012 wrote: »

Just my tuppence here - if you go down the virtualised server road then you are, in my opinion, opening yourself up for a fall eventually. Imagine landing a server admin role and being asked to build a server from scratch. are you able to build and rack it, what about the RAID array, what about HBA fibre connections. however if you already have experience of this from NT/2000/2003/Linux/UNIX etc then by all means go virtual.

I would contend that these are relatively easy things to learn to do, with only minor variations between vendors and lots of documentation. My first SAN and ESX cluster setups were client implementations, and it was all material that could be quickly learned and applied within a day.

It's definitely valuable experience, but the hardware side of things lacks a tremendous amount of depth, and as such, you can probably live without it prior to your first admin job.

dave330i

solnsusie wrote: »

by the way, i do know how to check if its supporting, I just want to figure out if you are a A+ certified!!!! Since it’s not mentioned in your certifications.

Is A+ of any value? Can't remember seeing a job listing requiring A+.

ptilsen

dave330i wrote: »

Is A+ of any value? Can't remember seeing a job listing requiring A+.

Searching Monster.com for jobs in Minneapolis, MN:
A+ Over 1000
Network+ 48
ITIL v3 41
CCNA 10
MCSE 10
MCITP 2
CISSP 14
GSEC 2
GPEN 0
CEH 0

Obviously an A+ is meaningless once you have moved past DST or are otherwise well established, but the idea that it has no value or isn't a common job listing is ridiculous. A good resume, decent skills, and an A+ are the only qualifications needed to get a start in IT. An A+ and a pulse is all you need to get gigs from recruiters.

Edit: Just to note, searching Minneapolis refers to the city of ~380,000, not the Twin Cities Metro Area of ~3.5 million. That is a lot of A+ jobs for a principal city dwarfed by its metro.

dave330i

ptilsen wrote: »

Searching Monster.com for jobs in Minneapolis, MN:
A+ Over 1000
Network+ 48
ITIL v3 41
CCNA 10
MCSE 10
MCITP 2
CISSP 14
GSEC 2
GPEN 0
CEH 0

Obviously an A+ is meaningless once you have moved past DST or are otherwise well established, but the idea that it has no value or isn't a common job listing is ridiculous. A good resume, decent skills, and an A+ are the only qualifications needed to get a start in IT. An A+ and a pulse is all you need to get gigs from recruiters.

Edit: Just to note, searching Minneapolis refers to the city of ~380,000, not the Twin Cities Metro Area of ~3.5 million. That is a lot of A+ jobs for a principal city dwarfed by its metro.

My mistake. Did a quick search in my area and there are a lot of listing for A+. Not much overlap with VCP (in terms of job listing).

MrAgent

Yes you should probably get a server of some sort. I did some research for you and found this.

Dell PowerEdge 2850 2x XEON 3.2ghz/4gb/4x146GB Server | eBay

Add some more RAM, and you have a decent server.

ptilsen

MrAgent wrote: »

Yes you should probably get a server of some sort. I did some research for you and found this.

Dell PowerEdge 2850 2x XEON 3.2ghz/4gb/4x146GB Server | eBay

Add some more RAM, and you have a decent server.

I would want to know a bit more about that server. It's not clear to me what generation processors it is using, and as such I can't tell whether they are multi-core and support VT.

erpadmin

ptilsen wrote: »

I would want to know a bit more about that server. It's not clear to me what generation processors it is using, and as such I can't tell whether they are multi-core and support VT.

According to this:

Documentation

I would gather that this would be the processors in question:

64-bit Intel® Xeon® Processor 3.20E GHz, 2M Cache, 800 MHz FSB


(Only because the 2850 supports a front-side bus speed of up to 800mhz)

I would of course confirm that with the seller.

If it is the processor in the above link, then the answer to your questions would be "no" on both counts. (One core/doesn't support VT-x.)


That's why rather than get a production server that's a few years old because it's cheap, I always recommend getting a new server that's geared for small business like a HP ML110 G6 and upgrade to the max later when budget permits. I'm actually going redo my ML110 box I have and start creating a SQL Server 2008 R2 enviroment that will also have a mini-PeopleSoft lab. This will be my "hobby." (In reality, I want to fit in my SQL Server 2008 R2 studies with my grad school studies...I believe I can do it as long as I find the SQL "fun" and I do. )

MrAgent

Good catch erpadmin. I assumed that because its 64bit it would support VT.