IT job with FELONIES?

New to this forum. Probably a bad way to introduce myself. I've always been interested in IT. My dads a project manager for a pretty big e-commerce company. I'm 28 years old. We got our first computer in 1993, back when it was DOS and Windows 3.x. I started writing code that same year at age 9. QBASIC. I taught myself C++. I run Linux only and I know what I'm doing with it. I have a few semesters in at a local community college for programming. My life went out of control due to an unfortunate sequence of events and I became an alcoholic. I have 4 DUI's. I went to prison due to these charges. I really want to get into the IT field. But I'm wondering if I'm wasting my time even trying? I know IT Security is what I want to do. But I think it will be hard for me to get a job. I'm willing to do anything for this. If anyone can help me out with an HONEST answer, I'd greatly appreciate it.

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phdillard

You should check to see if your county or state has any kind of prison-to-workforce type programs. I know some do, as my mother was a convicted drug dealer and was offered admission to such a program. This could help you get your foot in the door at a company and maybe some free training/education as well if the state offers it.

gbdavidx

my question is, how do you not learn from the first one?

SteveLord

typfromdaco wrote: »

I actually have to correct a few of you in regards to qualifications for enlistment, at least for the Army. It is possible to join the Army with a felony right now, but only if it is one isolated incident and was committed as a juvenile. The charge can't be any form of sexual crime, but something like a theft is possible. The budget cuts that the military is facing right now had pretty much no effect on the enlistment side of the house, because our missions have barely decreased since I became a recruiter in 2010. The numbers at the bottom are averaging out by the increased number of people that are being forced to retire or being booted because of various reasons. With that being said, 4 DUI's would never be approved, at least not for the foreseeable future.

No military branch would let it in any felons right now. It is not even worth any applicant's time to even try.

tstrip007

gbdavidx wrote: »

my question is, how do you not learn from the first one?

That is the most common question that comes from a non-alcoholic/addict. The answer is, once someone crosses the line into alcoholism or addiction they completely lose the power of choice.

typfromdaco

SteveLord, I have put in two people with felonies within the past six months and I have referred people to the Marines that were accepted with felonies.

Source: I am a recruiter!

tpatt100

typfromdaco wrote: »

SteveLord, I have put in two people with felonies within the past six months and I have referred people to the Marines that were accepted with felonies.

Source: I am a recruiter!

Yeah I have heard the rules were laxed a bit.

NetworkVeteran

There has been an upswing in felons allowed in the Army and Marines beginning in 2003, reported by many media outlets, as well as recruits who needed waivers for failing to meet medical and/or aptitude tests--

Wikipedia: Felony waiver wrote:

235 of the Marine Corps' 350 waivers were for various types of thefts in 2007, and another 63 were for assaults or robberies that may also have included use of a weapon. The remainder included one for manslaughter in 2007; four for sex crimes; and five for terror threats, including bomb threats. The Navy's convictions were mostly for a variety of thefts or drug and drunk driving convictions, with two for terror or bomb threats in 2007.[6]

Notably, the Air Force did not allow any felony waivers during the same period.

datgirl

By no means will a felony record consisting of DUIs keep you out of IT security, or other sectors of the IT industry. Having said that, I would qualify my statement with, how long ago did your arrest and conviction occur, and what steps have you taken since then to prevent their re-occurrence. The nature of life is that we all make mistakes at some point, what is key is that we don’t continually make them over and over again. If it comes up in the interview or the vetting process, own up to it, explain what happened, how you have corrected the issue, and that you don’t foresee it being a problem or impediment to your job. Also, when you can, seek out information on the laws in your state, and have your records sealed or expunged. And finally, continue your education, work on your recovery, stay positive, and “take it one day at a time”.

paul78

BigD5X wrote: »

I knew this was going to be a tough road but I won't give up. I too I'm looking at small companies and contracts just so I can get some work.

Welcome to the TE forums. Good luck and hang in there... You made a mistake and you paid for it. If you stay clean and continue to persevere I'm sure that you will find something.

I'll repost my thoughts on this subject if it's helpful to you.

Assuming that you live in the US, the first and foremost advice as already offered is to be honest and upfront about the criminal record during the interview process. If a background check is conducted, your criminal record will likely be discovered depending on the state and type of background check that is conducted.

Here is the key for you - in the US, it is illegal for hiring companies to discriminate against job applicants with criminal records if the crime has no bearing on the job being performed. At some point, I hope that someone will test some of the newer rules in the Supreme Court (if not already done). New guidance was actually issued by the EEOC (Equal Employment Opportunity Commission) last year that states that employers CANNOT use blanket policies to exclude the hiring of an applicant.

According to the EEOC - "If the employer does not show that such an exclusion is “job related and consistent with business necessity” for the position in question, the exclusion is unlawful under Title VII."

Title VII is in reference to the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

So, if you are told that you cannot be hired simply because you have a criminal record, the employer may be breaking the law in the US.

There will be some industries that will continue to have higher standards of hiring because of their risk management programs - for example - health care, financial services, or anything related to interaction with minors. But even so, the EEOC guidance prescribes that each applicant must be evaluated in an individual basis.

I am actually quite glad to finally see this type of guidance in the US. As a risk and infosec manager, I am often at odds with my HR peers on some of the policies which they have enacted which have no proportional response to risk to the business. And are often based on fear instead of actual evidence and fact.

Also - you may want to consider engaging with an attorney to see if you can get some of your criminal record expunged or reduced to a misdemeanor.

I wish you good luck in your job search.

blueberries wrote:

You should get a job from home coding C++. That way, when you get plastered you won't have to step behind a motor vehicle.

That's a crass and immature comment. Anyone that suffers a serious alcohol abuse problem deserves a bit more dignity.

typfromdaco

The funny thing is, if you walked into my office with a simple felony, such as theft when you were a juvenile, than I am 90% sure I can put you in the Army. If you walk into my office and have a charge for possession of drug paraphernalia, such as a pipe with residue, than you are disqualified from enlistment without the possibility of a waiver.

DB Cooper

Have you looked into getting them expunged? I know it depends on the charges, the state, and the time frame of each arrest, maybe they can be removed. I believe it works at the state level, but doesn't remove them from the federal databases, so no federal jobs. Just an idea..

jibbajabba

paul78 wrote: »

So, if you are told that you cannot be hired simply because you have a criminal record, the employer may be breaking the law in the US.

Even if they did - what would you do ? Sue them ? Might work, might even get you a job - but you'd be in probation, only takes you to come in 2 minutes late for them to find a reason to fire you again ..

paul78

jibbajabba wrote: »

Even if they did - what would you do ? Sue them ? Might work, might even get you a job - but you'd be in probation, only takes you to come in 2 minutes late for them to find a reason to fire you again ..

The point is that if no one does anything and simply accepts the status quo, it will never change. In the US, it won't start with a law-suit. It would start with a complaint to the EEOC for discrimination. A lawsuit doesn't have to get a job - who would want it anyways. But I believe that with certain discrimination, it can be for punitive damages. But I am not an attorney so cannot offer legal advice - hence its usually best to consult an employment attorney.

CoolAsAFan

@paul78, yes the EEOC has passed bills in part to help "criminals" earn employment, unfortunately these laws are widely interpreted as however they are wanted by each employer, especially this part...""If the employer does not show that such an exclusion is “job related and consistent with business necessity” for the position in question, the exclusion is unlawful under Title VII.""

Typically, most companies avoid charges of violence, theft/robbery, and sex acts. Increasingly, drug/alcohol offenders have been added to this list.

In my state of Indiana, we just passed a bill that took effect on July 1st that allows for expungement of your record. It is based on your offense and when it occurred, and what you have done in between that time. (My D-Felony required 8 years of a clean record) You should definately look into this for your area.

And as others have said, be up front and honest as much as possible about your recovery (unless your trying to bs and stay drinking then I guess lie?)

IMO, I would not bring it up, but would absolutely be ready to address it if it is put on the table. I'm curious what other opinions are on this?

Good luck with your recovery sir!

it_consultant

If many of us know people (I do) who have criminal records and have jobs, obviously it is possible. Generally the more time between you and the criminal act the better. You certainly have to be prepared to explain the record and what you have done to rectify your bad acts, other than that don't bring it up. Put it behind you, pick up your chin, and move forward. Believe me, many of us work with so many idiots that we would gladly have a non-idiot with a criminal record.

SteveLord

typfromdaco wrote: »

The funny thing is, if you walked into my office with a simple felony, such as theft when you were a juvenile, than I am 90% sure I can put you in the Army. If you walk into my office and have a charge for possession of drug paraphernalia, such as a pipe with residue, than you are disqualified from enlistment without the possibility of a waiver.

Right. I missed the juvenile part. It is still difficult otherwise.