Starting To Question Certification Before Practical Experience

erpadmin

rockd24 wrote: »

You realize that the OP is trying to get networking experience right? I think my comparison is a lot more relevant to this post/discussion than yours. There's obviously other ways to get the ccna without spending thousands at some tech school and we aren't talking about people who already have experience. Even in your scenario it's not a waste, because a lot of employers will want the certification even with the experience. Also if they aren't working now and have the time to do the cert it's best to get it out of the way now then doing after you are working full time.

For the people who want to get their start in IT, having a cert and learning the concepts definitely will not hurt when applying for entry level positions and going to technical interviews.

Obviously you weren't....but from your post, I had to dig at you (respectfully, of course...) because you made a scenario that, in my opinion, 99% of people would go with. However, your scenario is a tad-bit unrealistic. If given a choice between someone with an empty cert verus someone with no experience, an employer could then go with aptitude (the potential to learn the technology.) Of course, your would think Mr/Ms. Empty Cert would have that aptitude, but I'm hoping even you could see that ceritifications is not a guarantee of aptitude (don't take my word for it, ask a lot of employers--"any ^&#^% can pass a test" is what I have heard constantly.)

If I were an employer, I would of course look for someone with an aptitude for technology, experience or not, certification or not, based on your scenario. Ideally, I am going to want an experienced candidate, even for an entry-level position, or at the very least...a strong aptitude.

rockd24

It's not a guarantee, but if you have two candidates with equal aptitude and do equally well in the interview, the edge will go to took the time to learn the concepts and has the cert. Just on that alone it makes it worth it given how hard it is to find something these days and you are going to get the cert regardless of having the experience or not. A person with experience would trump a person with a cert and no experience, but the problem right now for most people when starting out is trying to get that experience.

radix

rockd24 wrote: »

For entry level positions I would rather have the guy with a CCNA (assuming they didn't **** it) with no experience versus the guy who knows nothing about networking and has no certification or experience.

erpadmin wrote: »

based on your scenario. Ideally, I am going to want an experienced candidate, even for an entry-level position, or at the very least...a strong aptitude.

His scenario was for an entry level job with a guy having no exp but a entry level cert vs a guy with no experience and no certification

erpadmin

rockd24 wrote: »

A person with experience would trump a person with a cert and no experience, but the problem right now for most people when starting out is trying to get that experience.

This is when networking (and not the CCNA kind) comes into play. Whether that's through LinkedIn, the often-times useless Career Services department that is in many schools, professional organizationals in your local areas, or fraternal organizations.

It's really not about what you know...but who you know. That's really how one avoids the "Catch-22" of experience and certs.

networker050184

What are the chances two candidates are going to be exactly the same in aptitude and interviewing though? I'd say pretty close to zero. So that's a pretty unrealistic scenario in itself.

erpadmin

rockd24 wrote: »

A person with experience would trump a person with a cert and no experience, but the problem right now for most people when starting out is trying to get that experience.

This is when networking (and not the CCNA kind) comes into play. Whether that's through LinkedIn, the often-times useless Career Services department that is in many schools, professional organizationals in your local areas, or fraternal organizations.

It's really not about what you know...but who you know. That's really how one avoids the "Catch-22" of experience and certs.

radix wrote: »

His scenario was for an entry level job with a guy having no exp but a entry level cert vs a guy with no experience and no certification

I got that, thank you.

I was trying to point out that's was not a realistic scenario, as while I would ideally want to hire someone with experience, I would hire someone based on aptitude. Believe it or not, certs do not necessarily measure aptitude well. Also, technical knowledge is not the only thing at play.

rockd24

erpadmin wrote: »

This is when networking (and not the CCNA kind) comes into play. Whether that's through LinkedIn, the often-times useless Career Services department that is in many schools, professional organizationals in your local areas, or fraternal organizations.

It's really not about what you know...but who you know. That's really how one avoids the "Catch-22" of experience and certs.

I agree that's going to help but that's advice you give to both candidates. It's something you do in addition to having the cert. My argument isn't having the cert is the only way to do it, but its definitely not a waste of time and don't see a real reason to be against it. Here in Dallas there is a cisco user group that meets up once a month. I'm not sure if they have those in other cities but that would be a good place to go to when looking for a job or wanting to learn more about Cisco and I.T.

djfunz

I've laid down the books for the past couple of days. I've really been socially networking with as many people as one can randomly meet in a new city where none of my acquaintances, family, or friends are located. I've set up a Craig's List post in the resume/looking for jobs section. I even attended a big job fair where all the big names were present in Santa Clara. During the event, I also met a really nice guy who's worked for Cisco for five years. His contact info has been saved. My girlfriends new employer is also very well connected, so I'm cautiously optimistic that with everything in play, something will eventually come through.

I'm not going to pursue my CCNP or begin to study for a Bachelors until I've attained networking experience in some fashion. I have completed my application for WGU though and am very much looking forward to complete that chapter of my life when the time, experience, and finances are right.

I just want my CCNA to land a couple of interviews so that I can prove myself.

In the mean time, I refuse to forget everything I've worked so hard to learn. I will continue to read Network Warrior and intend to keep labbing in my spare time. Getting acclimated with Wireshark also can't hurt.

I really appreciate all the responses this thread has generated thus far. I'm not afraid of hearing brutal honest answers as long as their also coupled with helpful suggestions to attain my goal.

I also really like the suggestion with meeting some of the forum members in the Bay Area that already have network positions. I would be happy to buy them lunch and meet them face to face for some genuine insight.

N2IT

@DJ

I believe pursuing your bachelors sooner than later would be a wise decision. Obviously I am not you and you can only make those decisions, a bachelors degree is very powerful and can open A LOT of doors for you. I'm just saying

Other than that piece I like your strategy. Going to those job fairs and getting exposure is great. Besides when you are met with resistance or constraints it takes additional effort to get through. It sounds like you are in good spirits and have an outstanding attitude. Keep it up and you'll land a job that you like.

I would consider writing down all the jobs you would like to work. System Admin, Network Admin, etc and keep those visually accessible. It will help motivate you when you hit a valley and help harvest peaks.

eserfeliz

N2IT wrote: »

I believe pursuing your bachelors sooner than later would be a wise decision. Obviously I am not you and you can only make those decisions, a bachelors degree is very powerful and can open A LOT of doors for you. I'm just saying

I second this statement. The educational system takes its knocks around the IT field, but it really can open doors for you that were shut before. My only caveat would be, "Make sure you're getting what you're paying for." If you're paying Harvard prices, you'd better be getting a Harvard education. Look for relatively inexpensive programs at your local community/junior/commuter school. I went to State U and it's paying off already.

N2IT

And make sure those loans are fixed rate no adjustable rate or personal loans! And regionally accredited!

NewbieIT

Plantwiz wrote: »

Try helping some church groups/ schools/ non-profits, etc.. you NEVER know who sits on the boards of those organizations and if you do great work, they may notice...this would be a nice 'social networking' step!

I am very glad this individual asked this question seeing I have been currently asking myself the same question and I appreciate your answer.

All my friends keep telling me the most important element in IT is your experience, "Get Experience," they keep telling me. I never thought about offering free services to church groups, schools, or even non-profit agencies. That definitely would help build a resume and provide some experience.

Thanks.