Advice Needed - Degree Choice

Santa_

Hey everyone,

I signed up on the forums to get some input from other's that are in the field, currently pursuing, and have been through the college courses of my choice of degree - MIS.

I'm sure you're all aware of it by now, and most likely sick of everyone asking it, but I'm in a little of a rough area.

Currently 22 yrs old, turning 23 this upcoming October. I've been contemplating the idea of pursuing certifications only, as my foot in the door for IT related positions. (A+, Net+, Sec+, CCNA, MCITP, etc)

Now with those, plus many more certs (I would manly lean towards secuirty/network certs) would a degree in MIS help me in the future? Or will attaining the right certs help?

I went to college for about 2 semesters and decided to drop out and focus on certifications. Well, 3 years later and I have yet to attain any. I'll get my A+ by next month. I just have to take the 2nd part of the exam.

My friend mentioned about MIS and how I should look into it. So I did! Figured from everything I've researched, it's an area of interest for me. I was going to school originally for CS, but soon dropped out, and went into work full-time.

Now since then I haven't done much, but worked and now I feel the need to get my life together and my priorities straight. So I ask the members on this community boards, which seems better?

1) Attain my certs, and don't waste the money on the MIS degree.
2) Hold off on the certs, go to school and attain an MIS degree, and then focus on area of study and attain Network/Security certs.
3) Your input ...

By the way, I've always been interested in attaining a position in the networking/security department. Thus seeing the need to attain certs in those particular areas to help increase my likelyhood.

Akaricloud

In my opinion it matters less what degree you get and more than you get a degree. MIS isn't a bad program but may be a bit more business oriented than you want if you're planning on going into networking/security.

Don't limit yourself to just one thing at a time. I'd suggest obtaining a couple simple certs and finding an industry related job while going for your degree. A degree alone just doesn't cut it anymore.

I held a full time Desktop Support job for 3 years while I got my BA:MIS and picked up a entry level MCITP; It can be quite easily done. My only regret was not doing more certifications while in college.

Hypersonik

Your degree type will matter.

In a sea of generic people, your CV needs to be relevant, especially if you are going for you first position.

If you get a BA in Fine Art, you just aren't going to look as attractive as someone who has a BSc in Computer Science.

One of the reasons I did a BEng was because it is an approved degree. Not just by a University, but by an international Engineering body.

ptilsen

Getting a relevant degree is a plus, but don't get that hung up over the specific degree. The fact of the matter is, when it comes to IT infrastructure, 75-90% of what you learn in an MIS or CS degree is not going to be directly pertinent to your job responsibilities. It does add some points, but very few organizations will really refuse you because you don't have an MIS or CS degree. Anyway, since you're already thinking of MIS, it won't matter too much. (Keep in mind this is from an American perspective. The UK market is very different as a result of a different style of higher education.)

You absolutely should get a degree, and it does come into play. I've got a healthy collection of certs and experience, and when I finally finish my MCITP:EA, the biggest problem I'll have will be the lack of a four-year degree.

As far as getting into IT work now, certifications are a good place to start. I worked towards certifications and a two-year degree simultaneously. It can be rough, but it's completely doable for the entry-level certs. You have to slow down on school or certs to get the more difficult ones out of the way, but it's completely feasible.

Certifications are attractive because they can give you a career boost right now, but don't overdo it. You could get a bunch of great certifications and find yourself regretting not getting the degree when you were younger. Another huge factor is that if you already have college credit, it might not transfer into certain schools if you stopped too long ago. That leads to having to take far more than four years to get a four-year degree, and personally, I think that's about the biggest discouragement you can get for completing.

Take the advice of someone who went the other route and regretted it. Focus on school, at least part time, and do certs on the side. The Comptias are easy enough and you can get and maintain gainful employment without compromising your education.

the_Grinch

Degree wise is more of a matter of when, not if. You want to get past HR, you need to have the degree. A healthy combo of experience, degree, and certification will be a trifecta that gets you hired. As for what you major in, it is really up to you and what your future goals are. MIS usually ultimately will lead to management. IT/IS will keep you in the trenches, but still allow you to move to management at some point. If I could do it all over again, I would do Computer Science. If you want to be a programmer, you can be. If not, you'll have no issue working in IT with a CS degree.

ptilsen

the_Grinch wrote: »

If not, you'll have no issue working in IT with a CS degree.

I also agree with this, which is why I, for one, will pursue a CS degree.

the_Grinch

It is definitely a win, win. You're going to truly learn the inner workings of the operating system and at least around my area, networking as well. Worried about the math? Do a BA instead of a BS, usually that has less math, just more social science (which should help you on the customer service side of things). Either way, work hard for four years to write the ticket to the future that you want.

Santa_

Thank you all for the valuable input.

My area of interest, like mentioned above, would be in the network/security side. I would like to be in a position of management too. Hence the MIS degree. I do not have a problem with the business aspect of this degree. I'm well aware of that, on top of it including the study of Information Systems.

I'm concerned about not landing the right position (network admin, system admin) if I only had an BS MIS degree. Like one user posted, I will try and attain my certifications at the same time. Once the harder ones come into play I will set aside my school work. So to do this, I feel the best opportunity would be in the summer between spring and fall semester. While gaining easily to moderate certifications during the semester terms.

Would it be better to attain a BS in CS and one in MIS and at the same time work towards network/security certs?

Or like I mentioned go for my MIS and work towards certifications while working in the industry(help desktop support)

N2IT

Chalk another one up in agreement with the CS degree. IMO, and JMHO, I believe a quality CS degree will trump any IT certification. Some will argue CCIE and the MCM, and they have good reason too, but I have seen way to many high level admins with nothing more than a quality CS degree.

Get the quality CS degree and you won't have to get certifications.

Santa_

Really great insight N2. I guess in all honestly I should had stayed in school and attained my CS degree. -.- Its never late either.

Would you agree that attaining certs in specific areas(network/security) will help ? Or would it be a wast of time and money if I attain the BS in CS.

I feel that having at least the a+, network+, and security+ give me the fundamentals with the addition to a degree a good headstart, opposed to those with only the degree.

If that's not the case , then a BS in CS plus a degree in MIS will triumph the certifications and put me in a good spot for network admin/sys admin and/or management role. Right?

the_Grinch

I don't see the point in getting a degree in CS and MIS. I'd get the BA/BS in Computer Science and then look at a Masters in IT/IS, but two bachelors in technology related disciplines would be a waste in time and money. I could equate it to getting a degree in electrical engineering and computer engineering, electrical will allow you to work in computer engineering, but computer engineering will not allow you into electrical. Keep your doors open, get the CS degree and go from there.

N2IT

Santa

Here is my opinion

You get a good CS degree from XYZ school, top 50 CS school for instance. I think while going through the program you will have intership opportunities and human networking opportunities. You can leverage these communication channels to get a good sound job.

CS majors have development, networking, database, mathematics, etc. These are all awesome skills to have. With that degree assuming it's from a good school you can be dropped into an admin position and hold your own immediately. You will be around other likeminded individuals who are just as smart as you or even smarter, which is a good thing. You will learn from people like this.

You'll also have the gain the foundation to script/develop applications if needed, understand networking prinicipals and protocols. You will develop so many skills you will be able to leverage those in ways I only can dream.

You have my opinion what you do with it is up to you.

*****Without knowing your exact situation it's almost impossible to make that call. If you can transition into CS then do it, if you are almost done with MIS then you might as well finish.

Just my 2 cents.

Santa_

I have neither started MIS. Just thought about the idea of pursuing that degree. And once I attained it work towards CS. Originally I had gone go school for CS and soon dropped out after 2 semester to work full-time and attain certs at the same time. Almost 3years later and here I am on a blanket slate starting from the bottom.

I value your opinions and what seems best is the CS degree and then masters from there. This will triumph the MIS degree all day.

The choice of school would be, University of Massachusetts Lowell

N2IT

Best option imo is this. CS degree from the school you mentioned. UMass is a great school. Then reevaluate your situation. Do you want to go the technical route? Then masters in CS, do you want to go the management route? MBA or Finance/Accounting

EZ21

N2IT wrote: »

Chalk another one up in agreement with the CS degree. IMO, and JMHO, I believe a quality CS degree will trump any IT certification. Some will argue CCIE and the MCM, and they have good reason too, but I have seen way to many high level admins with nothing more than a quality CS degree.

Get the quality CS degree and you won't have to get certifications.

100% agree

Valsacar

I guess I'll have to go the other way here, a degree is nice but IMO and experience it's not the important part. Experience is, and certs can help you get in the door on a low level position. Out of almost 100 people on our team, very few even have a BA/BS and our highest paid techs are among those. Our of the 12 work centers, only ONE of them refuses to look at people without a degree (the web app development shop... of all places). I was hired without a degree (though I was working on it) because I had years of experience both in and out of the military, and some basic certs. Since then I finished the degree, got the CISSP (and a couple other little ones) and now working on the Masters. I was in the door (just under 6 figures) without a degree, and then promoted (35% inc) before the degree was done. I had worked with these guys before, I had experience and they had an idea (turns out they under estimated, hence the quick promotion) of what I could do for them.

A degree is good, but experience and some basic certs are better in my experience. I've never seen someone walk into a mid level position because they just got a degree without experience. I've seen plenty of people walk into a low level job (degree or not) and move up quickly once they show they are capable of more.

What the degree is in... our management doesn't really care, if the position (corporate does have some requirements for some mid level and above) requires a degree then you need one, IT related (CS/MIS/IT/etc) preferred.

That said, since you don't have much right now, I'd go grab some basics (A+... you're almost halfway there, Sec+ is the better of those basic 3 IMO). If you can't find anything (don't count out help desk, just get some experience then you can move up) then maybe look at working more on that degree. Look for a school that those certs will be useful with, why double effort. WGU is a good option (best bang for buck) as you get certs while doing the degree through them (and any you already have waive some courses). I did my BS at Excelsior, they also gave credit (electives) for IT certifications.

As for what certs, depends on what you mean by networking/security. You want one of those? In that case Security+ (it's just an all around good basic cert), and then look at which side (CCNA/other cisco stuff or Juniper, for networking depending on what equipment you want to work with). Security you'd want to look at some SANS certs, ISC2 (CISSP), ISACA... really depends on what part of security (it's a big field) you want to be in... or did you mean network security (one aspect of security)... in that case you'll need a combination of certs (and move up to things like CCNA Security, and CCNP Security when you can... or the Juniper equivalents).

TL;DR

Experience is the biggest player (unless you want to go management). Basic certs can help you get in the door to get that experience (even if it's a help desk job). Degree is a plus, but not a requirement. That's my experience.

EZ21

Santa_ wrote: »

I have neither started MIS. Just thought about the idea of pursuing that degree. And once I attained it work towards CS. Originally I had gone go school for CS and soon dropped out after 2 semester to work full-time and attain certs at the same time. Almost 3years later and here I am on a blanket slate starting from the bottom.

I value your opinions and what seems best is the CS degree and then masters from there. This will triumph the MIS degree all day.

The choice of school would be, University of Massachusetts Lowell

No, CS will not triumph an MIS degree. MIS and CS are both great degree programs equally. MIS deals more with "Management" and CS deals more with "Programming". The demand is high for both majors. To say that one is better than the other dosn't make sense.

Santa_

Valsacar wrote: »

I guess I'll have to go the other way here, a degree is nice but IMO and experience it's not the important part. Experience is, and certs can help you get in the door on a low level position. Out of almost 100 people on our team, very few even have a BA/BS and our highest paid techs are among those. Our of the 12 work centers, only ONE of them refuses to look at people without a degree (the web app development shop... of all places). I was hired without a degree (though I was working on it) because I had years of experience both in and out of the military, and some basic certs. Since then I finished the degree, got the CISSP (and a couple other little ones) and now working on the Masters. I was in the door (just under 6 figures) without a degree, and then promoted (35% inc) before the degree was done. I had worked with these guys before, I had experience and they had an idea (turns out they under estimated, hence the quick promotion) of what I could do for them.

A degree is good, but experience and some basic certs are better in my experience. I've never seen someone walk into a mid level position because they just got a degree without experience. I've seen plenty of people walk into a low level job (degree or not) and move up quickly once they show they are capable of more.

What the degree is in... our management doesn't really care, if the position (corporate does have some requirements for some mid level and above) requires a degree then you need one, IT related (CS/MIS/IT/etc) preferred.

That said, since you don't have much right now, I'd go grab some basics (A+... you're almost halfway there, Sec+ is the better of those basic 3 IMO). If you can't find anything (don't count out help desk, just get some experience then you can move up) then maybe look at working more on that degree. Look for a school that those certs will be useful with, why double effort. WGU is a good option (best bang for buck) as you get certs while doing the degree through them (and any you already have waive some courses). I did my BS at Excelsior, they also gave credit (electives) for IT certifications.

As for what certs, depends on what you mean by networking/security. You want one of those? In that case Security+ (it's just an all around good basic cert), and then look at which side (CCNA/other cisco stuff or Juniper, for networking depending on what equipment you want to work with). Security you'd want to look at some SANS certs, ISC2 (CISSP), ISACA... really depends on what part of security (it's a big field) you want to be in... or did you mean network security (one aspect of security)... in that case you'll need a combination of certs (and move up to things like CCNA Security, and CCNP Security when you can... or the Juniper equivalents).

TL;DR

Experience is the biggest player (unless you want to go management). Basic certs can help you get in the door to get that experience (even if it's a help desk job). Degree is a plus, but not a requirement. That's my experience.

This is the many wonders I see when it comes to the IT field.

The ability to get into a position without the degree, but with the experience and certifications.

This baffles me and makes my original choice more difficult.

I, for one had the same perspective, that if one were to attain the certs and had the experience, one will get into a good position and progress.

And to the other part, the certs and experience help, but without the degree you're not going to progress.


All of your have given me enough information as to what I would like to go into. I feel that a BA;CS, and then from there a MBA. While also trying to attain basic certifications. Based on the feedback of the_Grinch, this will be a nice trifecta. Degree + Certs + Experience

Valsacar

Getting all three is obviously the best, but the choice is how you do it. Remember that in IT things change quickly, by the time you get a degree much of what you learned is old. The best way is to hold down a low level position (even part time) while working on the degree (school might even have a help desk or computer tech position for students).

Patel128

I am currently in school for a BS in CS. I for one think the programming knowledge is a great help for an IT job. It helped my troubleshooting skills tremendously not only in programming, but with IT work in general. I won't lie I was on the verge of changing majors to MIS last year because of the math that CS students needed, but I (with the great help of my best friend) decided to stay a CS major and I sure as hell am glad I did.

Santa_

I'm going to be working as a help desk support. I had my interview and it went well. I will be starting in 2weeks.

This is what also initiated my spark to get back into school.

From knowing the difference between BS\BA I see that BA will be the area of most interest to me. Considering the management/administration aspect

Santa_

Unfortunately the help desk position was closed due to an internal hire.


I signed up for fall semester classes. Unfortunately due to past mindset I will be continuing as a freshman. I only have about 14 college credits, eh, but I need to start somewhere.

I hope to have my A+, Network+ before the semester starts. Hopefully Security+ too. I need to get my reading done! Luckily I just need to take the 702 to get the A+.

Meanwhile since I can only take 2 fall classes due to financial aid probation I will continue attaining certifications while in school.

NetworkVeteran

EZ21 wrote: »

No, CS will not triumph an MIS degree. MIS and CS are both great degree programs equally.

When it comes to hiring in the real world, EE/CS trumps an MIS all day long. EE/CS are generally more challenging technical degrees that cover many topics besides programming. For example, one program I'm familiar with covers software engineering, networking, databases, operating systems, computer architecture, security, logic, algorithms, and data structures. A challenge for the MIS student, is that at many schools it's a BA not a BS and the technical and gpa requirements are often lower--more than a few end up with in MIS because they couldn't handle CS. Now, MIS definitely trumps no degree. And if you really love it, that may trump marketability.

Remember that in IT things change quickly, by the time you get a degree much of what you learned is old.

Most CS/EE degree programs attempt to focus on the more enduring aspects of technology, so very little of what you learn becomes obsolete. We have come a long way, but we're still using programming languages and protocols that are over a decade old--C, C++, Java... IPv4, IPv6, OSPF, ISIS, BGP, MPLS, etc.

paul78

NetworkVeteran wrote: »

When it comes to hiring in the real world, EE/CS trumps an MIS all day long. EE/CS are generally more challenging technical degrees that cover many topics besides programming.

As the guy with no degree, I'll chime in as well.

In general, if comparing entry-level job candidates or candidates with less than 2-3 years work experience (of any kind), the job candidate with an EE/CS degree will stand out. Longevity in this field does require having the basic foundation knowledge of technology, and an EE/CS education can provide it. That doesn't mean that you can't learn it along the way. But certs provide practical skills not foundational knowledge.

At your age - if you can go back to finish your CS, I would recommend it.

alxx

+1 on BEng/EE/CSE or Telecommunications Engineering.

Its the skills you learn in your degree and how you apply yourself.
Most important is learning proper debugging skills and doing extra work/get practical experience. Just don't sit back and do the minimum work.

Just doing my last two subjects this semester of my CSE degree been 12 years part time. Then two more subjects for my physics degree.

Just scored an awesome job in network hardware development. Part time 2 days a week until July, then fulltime (decent Engineers rates ). Still working two days a week in my existing job until July.(electronics/embedded linux on omap/fpgas/remote experiments).Going to be great to be able to focus on just the one single project.

Having to do a crash course in optical networking and pcie to get up to speed.
Optical networking with fpga for control. Very small team .Ton of reading to get my head around.(not helped by a couple of heavy duty uni subjects)

Scored the job by doing extra work during a subject, then getting a TA/tutoring position then doing some work in my current job in the area and being good at embedded systems(Need lots of patience and debugging skills)

alxx

Whats awesome fpga wise is altera recently demonstrated fpgas with a built in optical interconnect (on chip). So only a couple of years off from a lot of chips having optical interconnects

World's first optical FPGA technology demo from Altera

Optical Innovation Erases Bandwidth Limits

3D Thursday: Altera adds Avago MicroPOD optical interconnects to FPGA package to handle bidirectional 100Gbps Ethernet | EDA360 Insider

https://eda360insider.wordpress.com/2012/03/08/3d-thursday-how-about-a-closeup-of-the-avago-minipod-optical-interconnect-on-the-altera-optical-fpga/

worth a read Optical Components: DARPAs Chip-to-Chip Optical Interconnects (C2OI) Program
"The system has separate transmitter and receiver modules that are connected through a 12-fiber ribbon. Each lane supports up to 12.5 Gbps. It uses 850nm VCSEL and PIN diode arrays. The embedded modules can be used for any board-level or I/O-level application by either using two PRIZM LightTurn connectors or one PRIZM LightTurn and one MPO."

and http://opticalcomponents.blogspot.com.au/

Physics and or EE for designing optics and interconnects

UnixGuy

Check the curriculum of the degree, and seeing that your goal is to work in networking, then If I were you I'd choose MIS.


Bare in mind that in CS you will learn things like Algorithms, object oriented programming..etc. While in MIS you will get to learn a little about the business side of things. Also, choose the best school possible, preferably in the area you wish to work in.