getting low balled on salary because you do not have a degree

healthyboyhealthyboy MemberBanned Posts: 118 ■■□□□□□□□□
getting low balled on salary because you do not have a degree?

is this possible?

any experience here?

Comments

  • themagiconethemagicone Just Married! Member Posts: 674
    It happens. More so now than say 4 years ago I would think. Back in 2007-2008 I was demanding 40k to 50k with no degree, by 2010 the highest offer I could get was 25k to 30k until I got my BS. Now I'm in the 50k to 60k range. Problem is the degrees have be devalued so much. There was a discussion about this awhile back I think. In the 60's-80's having a degree was a BIG deal, now everyone has one. If you don't you get left behind. You're required to do more now to get attention. Personally I'm working on my MS and then a BSEE just to try to hit 100k+.
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  • TheCudderTheCudder Senior Member Member Posts: 147 ■■■□□□□□□□
    Happened to me at my current job, that and the required certs for the job (since they were going to have to pay for me to get them). For that reason alone I've stuck around until I finished my degree now I'm back on the hunt for a new position else where. On a side note, I think this is something recruiters look for for this reason alone. They can see you have the experience, but if you have no higher education they know they can get a good skill set for cheaper.
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  • networker050184networker050184 Went to the dark side.... Mod Posts: 11,962 Mod
    Depends on the company. Some care about degrees and some could care less. I've had coworkers with masters that made less than me in the same position so its not something that is always going to happen.
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  • powerfoolpowerfool Senior Member Member Posts: 1,658 ■■■■■■■■□□
    It's hard to say what the real impact is, for sure. In many cases you may feel that you were low-balled, but it could be that it had very little to do with the degree and simply is the result of the company not being willing to pay much for anyone, degree or not. They may have paid slightly more for the degree, but maybe not much.
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  • shodownshodown Senior Member Member Posts: 2,271
    It depends on your skill and the culture. My current position requires a degree, but they liked me so much that they let me on as a contractor through corp to corp, and my boss told me he plans on keeping it that way cause they don't' want to loose me through out dated rules.

    As far as salary, I say I make what my certs and experience say I should make with or without a degree.
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  • Asif DaslAsif Dasl Learn it, Do it, Know it! Member Posts: 2,116 ■■■■■■■■□□
    I don't need a degree for my job, but I think the younger you are these days the bigger the percentage of people with degrees and employers use that to their advantage. It's not absolutely necessary but there is no doubt that it does help your case.

    The older you are the more experience you are likely to have and also the less likely to have a degree (the number of people going to college in the last 20 years has increased by at least 33/50% depending on the country)

    If you look in to the stats of people with degrees, on average they are happier, richer and much much less likely to be unemployed (especially through the last number of years). So they would be very strong reasons to go that route.

    But I'm sure it's also very hard to messure in stats the happyiness, wealth & unemployment rate for "experienced" professionals so take that for what it's worth.
  • SteveLordSteveLord Lord of IT World Member Posts: 1,717
    Apparently, 1 in 2 graduates are jobless or underemployed in the US and degree holders are making less than they use to.
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  • erpadminerpadmin PMP-Wannabe! Member Posts: 4,165
    It isn't even so much that you need to have a degree to do anything in IT that requires technical implementation/maintenance of systems. IT isn't a field that requires a licensing board to give you a credential so that you can replace RAM on a motherboard, or administer a network/system/database.

    With that said, the current state of the economy has left many people unemployed. Many of those folks have basketweaving degrees or even degrees in CS/EE/Engineering that will get these folks hired for a good range of IT jobs. The ones that are not degreed without so much as a basketweaving degree may end up getting hired through personal connections, a likable personality, and (most importantly) an aptitude that will allow a person to learn on the job as they progress in IT.

    What's always been a sore contention for me is that many folks will buy into how easy IT is to get in and the high salary that certain positions in IT demands. Folks that couldn't spell IT figure they can go to some IT cert school, get some certifications and expect a high salary after they graduate. Then you get people who are greatly disappointed when they find out that the job they are gonna get after graduating from a place like PCAge, New Horizons, etc (and most likely went through those schools with unemployment vouchers--you're welcome. :) [those funds were funded federally, so yes, I do expect a thank you...lol.] ) is getting a low paying help desk job. Even though many of us either started on the phones, or had a JOAT position at a small shop.

    I will never tire of saying this...(because I guess I'll never tire reading these types of threads):

    A degree can only be leveraged with the type of experience one has in one's background. Someone working in IT for 1.5 years and makes a six-figure salary means that most likely that person had a degree/background that could be leveraged and parlayed into a position making six-figures. Someone without that degree/experience would still get there, but it takes a nice four letter word: t-i-m-e. Let me add that I don't minimize Dave's accomplishments; I'm simply pointing out that if someone who just graduated from HS did the exact same thing, he would most likely NOT see the same result.

    Time, and a lot of dues paying. That is the key to not getting lowballed.
  • eserfelizeserfeliz Mr. Poopy Pants Member Posts: 134
    healthyboy wrote: »
    getting low balled on salary because you do not have a degree?

    is this possible?

    any experience here?

    According to CNBC, 4 of the top 10 highest paid bachelors degrees are computer or technology based. systems engineering is #10.

    News Headlines

    Despite anecdotal evidence to the contrary, I have been turned down for a few job offers due to lack of a Bachelors degree. I have been putting in applications at Citrix in Fort Lauderdale; one of my co-workers has a sister-in-law who is a Senior Recruiter there, and she told him that a lot of the jobs coming down the pipe there are Bachelors degree required - no exceptions.

    To try and put an answer to your question, I think that people are being lowballed due to economic factors in the credit markets. In matters on money, you are looking at issues of supply and demand. Monetary liquidity is in short supply, there is a surplus of workers with degrees and are, allegedly, highly trained, and companies are sitting on their piles of cash hedging their bets on the global economy. If the EU situation ever gets resolved, I bet you'll see companies loosen their grip on their money and start hiring people for the future. Until then...

    Anyway, if you think it's for you, I would highly recommend upgrading your skills during this period of uncertainty.
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  • Asif DaslAsif Dasl Learn it, Do it, Know it! Member Posts: 2,116 ■■■■■■■■□□
    erpadmin wrote: »
    Folks that couldn't spell IT figure they can go to some IT cert school, get some certifications and expect a high salary after they graduate. Then you get people who are greatly disappointed when they find out that the job they are gonna get after graduating from a place like PCAge, New Horizons, etc (and most likely went through those schools with unemployment vouchers--you're welcome. :)
    Just out of curiousity - are New Horizons a get-rich-quick place in the US? Here they do IT training and are an exam center in Dublin but from your post it seems they are something different over there? I checked their website and didn't find anything suspect about it - just wondering. I use the exam center and that's about it.
  • eserfelizeserfeliz Mr. Poopy Pants Member Posts: 134
    Asif Dasl wrote: »
    Just out of curiousity - are New Horizons a get-rich-quick place in the US? Here they do IT training and are an exam center in Dublin but from your post it seems they are something different over there? I checked their website and didn't find anything suspect about it - just wondering. I use the exam center and that's about it.

    My place of employment sent me to New Horizons for a three day class once. There was a proctor sitting in the room while I did computer based training with a pair of headphones on. I've never taken one of their Instructor led courses, though.
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  • erpadminerpadmin PMP-Wannabe! Member Posts: 4,165
    Asif Dasl wrote: »
    Just out of curiousity - are New Horizons a get-rich-quick place in the US? Here they do IT training and are an exam center in Dublin but from your post it seems they are something different over there? I checked their website and didn't find anything suspect about it - just wondering. I use the exam center and that's about it.

    Not so much "get-rich-quick"; they are a instructor-led school that's vendor-authorized to teach Official Curriculum. They also charge a few hundred bucks to a couple of thousand to teach CompTIA A+, Network+, etc, to give you an idea of what these schools are all about [typically, they get that money from orgs who send their employees in OR will get vouchers from states' unemployment offices to send the unemployed there. Rarely will someone pay for those kind of courses out of pocket, though that does happen.] That, by itself, doesn't make a school like New Horizons/Global Knowledge bad. My thing was more on students who go through those types of schools expecting to see mid-high level salaries from going through those type of schools. Whether it is the schools themselves pitching it, or the expectations come from the prospective students themselves, is hard to say.
  • Asif DaslAsif Dasl Learn it, Do it, Know it! Member Posts: 2,116 ■■■■■■■■□□
    Gotcha, thanks for clearing that up for me - they are pretty similar so. Even some of our colleges are engaged with that kind of stuff - 10 months to do CCNA? 6 months to do A+/Network+... it's madness & a ripoff. But if you are new to the field then most don't know any better.
  • TheCudderTheCudder Senior Member Member Posts: 147 ■■■□□□□□□□
    I don't think the argument here is rather a degree GET YOU the job (we all know that isn't the case these days), but more so given 2 people with the same past work experience and time, applying for 2 of the same open positions at at the same employer, one has a 4-yr degree, the other has only completed high school. The company decides to hire both, but brings the person with a 4 yr degree on with a $5,000 -$10,000 higher salary, simply because they have a formal education.
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  • erpadminerpadmin PMP-Wannabe! Member Posts: 4,165
    The lack of a degree for getting a job, getting promoted, whatever...that blood is still flowing through the same vein.

    This is pretty much why folks are discussing the worth of a degree in the first place. Promotions aren't all about doing a good job, but it's about proving to management that you can align business needs with implementing an IT strategy. The mentality is if you earned a piece of sheepskin above a high school degree (minimum Bachelor's...not Associates), then you have the ability for a shot at alignining business goals with IT strategy. I don't necessarily agree with that mentality, but I understand it, which is why I bothered to get a BSc in the first place. I also understand that getting a Master's can always help (never hurt) in getting that promotion.

    Great thing about being alive, regardless of where one lives, is that we all have the ability to rise above one's station in life. It takes time, and it takes effort and sacrifice, but in the end it's all worth it after the hard work is put in. That's just a life lesson. Complaining about the game being played serves no purpose; one has to play within the game and then make moves. Took me awhile to realize that myself, but I've started to understand what that all means.
  • ptilsenptilsen Junior Starcraft Engineer Member Posts: 2,835 ■■■■■■■■■■
    I have not seen a degree impact my salary too much. However, there have been many jobs I've either applied for and not been considered or not applied for due to a four-year degree requirement. Those jobs wouldn't necessarily pay much anymore than I could make elsewhere without that requirement. I can certainly tell you my two-year degree does almost nothing. It might give me an advantage over the guy with no degree, but unless his credentials are otherwise identical it's probably not going to make a difference. The lack of a four-year degree has definitely closed a few doors for me, though. Not so bad earlier in my career, but it makes growth potential much more limited at this point.

    I'll be pursuing a Bachelor of Computer Science degree from a local brick-and-mortar. A lot of what I learn there won't apply to my career, and a lot will be things I've already learned that I will have to "re-learn" anyway. I still think it will be a valuable experience that will both open more opportunities for me and provide fulfillment. I don't think I'm unique in this respect, which is why I continue recommending IT professionals get college degrees. I think we all need to be getting degrees in business, information technology/systems/assurance/whatever, computer science/engineering/whatever, from reputable schools (be it online, like WGU, or a B&M -- regionally accredited and public are preferred). Really, ERP has a great point: Complaining about the downsides is to no end. Just do it and enjoy the rewards.
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  • erpadminerpadmin PMP-Wannabe! Member Posts: 4,165
    ptilsen wrote: »
    I still think it will be a valuable experience that will both open more opportunities for me and provide fulfillment. I don't think I'm unique in this respect, which is why I continue recommending IT professionals get college degrees. I think we all need to be getting degrees in business, information technology/systems/assurance/whatever, computer science/engineering/whatever, from reputable schools (be it online, like WGU, or a B&M -- regionally accredited and public are preferred).

    That was the only reason I went the WGU route..I wanted to spend no more than 2 years finishing my BSc requirement and would rather spend the time it would have taken me to finish my BSc at a B&M to pursue a Master's at a B&M (whether it was online or local.) The one thing I learned through my pursuit of an education is that businesses and organizations (whether it is private sector or public) want employees to bring something of value to the table. Having a background in business and project management coupled with technical skills will help lessen the chance of any IT professional from getting laid off. Not a 100% guarantee, of course, but the chances will be a lot less. At the worse, those non-technical skills will keep an IT professional employed. Technical skills, by themselves, just won't do it.
  • NetworkingStudentNetworkingStudent Senior Member Member Posts: 1,407 ■■■■■■■■□□
    ptilsen wrote: »
    I have not seen a degree impact my salary too much. However, there have been many jobs I've either applied for and not been considered or not applied for due to a four-year degree requirement. Those jobs wouldn't necessarily pay much anymore than I could make elsewhere without that requirement. I can certainly tell you my two-year degree does almost nothing. It might give me an advantage over the guy with no degree, but unless his credentials are otherwise identical it's probably not going to make a difference. The lack of a four-year degree has definitely closed a few doors for me, though. Not so bad earlier in my career, but it makes growth potential much more limited at this point.

    I'll be pursuing a Bachelor of Computer Science degree from a local brick-and-mortar. A lot of what I learn there won't apply to my career, and a lot will be things I've already learned that I will have to "re-learn" anyway. I still think it will be a valuable experience that will both open more opportunities for me and provide fulfillment. I don't think I'm unique in this respect, which is why I continue recommending IT professionals get college degrees. I think we all need to be getting degrees in business, information technology/systems/assurance/whatever, computer science/engineering/whatever, from reputable schools (be it online, like WGU, or a B&M -- regionally accredited and public are preferred). Really, ERP has a great point: Complaining about the downsides is to no end. Just do it and enjoy the rewards.

    Good point

    I don’t think having more education ever hurt anyone. To stay competitive in IT you at least need a bachelors degree.
    I really think that a degree is like a insurance plan for an employer, because that demonstrates that you can start and finish something. Additionally, it shows that you are at the very least competent in the subjects and the field/role you are entering into.
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  • RouteThisWayRouteThisWay Senior Member Member Posts: 514
    Honestly, I thought getting my Associates was enough. I have some certs, have about 4 years experience in IT now (almost 2 as a SysAdmin doing everything from T1 HelpDesk, to configuring Firewall policies on Cisco ASA 5505s and Palo Alto-500s, Active Directory redesign, Cisco/HP/Dell/ switch configs, 2 major conversions of VMWare.. one being a 3.5->4.1 upgrade in a FC environment, and the other being a complete Phys -> Virtual environment in iSCSI, managing mixed Red Hat/Windows systems, SQL and Progress DB servers, etc etc etc. Perks for being in a small 3-man shop for 2 100+ employee companies). Needless to say, in the last 2 years my resume has grown significantly.

    And I still feel that not having a BS is holding me back. I am not actively looking for a job, but I always look to see what is trending out there and always touch base with local recruiters to stay relevant. And more often than not, job postings require degrees. I honestly think it is because of the devaluing of the Bachelor's degree. It is now so common because everyone has one. Where as historically college was for academia, it is now the norm for pretty much any profession/trade you want to get into.

    Right or wrong is debatable. It doesn't really matter. The simple truth is a degree will never hurt you. Not having one can possibly hurt you. I would say in our field a degree is more likely to get you in the interview process- your experience, personality, and cultural fit will get you the job.
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  • paul78paul78 Senior Member Member Posts: 3,016 ■■■■■■■■■■
    I dont have a degree and it hasn't really been too bad. As for being low-balled, I can't actually recall that has ever happened. That said - I would encorage getting a degree if you are just starting out in your career.
  • SteveLordSteveLord Lord of IT World Member Posts: 1,717
    Honestly, I thought getting my Associates was enough.

    After a lot of what I've read on here and looking at the market, I tell people "Bachelor's or bust." Don't bother with anything less. And this seems to be the case with more fields than IT. Nursing for sure.
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  • NetworkVeteranNetworkVeteran Senior Member Member Posts: 2,338 ■■■■■■■■□□
    healthyboy wrote: »
    getting low balled on salary because you do not have a degree?

    is this possible?

    any experience here?

    A person without degrees, certifications, and experience generally has a lower market value than someone who has those. You need not worry about one employer low-balling you. If this is a fluke, just laugh and move on to another. If this is a pattern, you need to accept where you're at in your career and decide whether to take steps to change it.
  • NetworkVeteranNetworkVeteran Senior Member Member Posts: 2,338 ■■■■■■■■□□
    Back in 2007-2008 I was demanding 40k to 50k with no degree, by 2010 the highest offer I could get was 25k to 30k until I got my BS. Now I'm in the 50k to 60k range. Problem is the degrees have be devalued so much.
    All degrees do not have equal earning potential in the field of IT. I have to say, I have always been happy I persevered and earned a challenging science degree (CS/EE). I have never made as low as $60k, and if anything, as I move up the career ladder--I'm currently in the $140k to $200k band--it seems my degree has becomes more and more important.

    If anything, I want more education. :p
  • EveryoneEveryone Premier Field Engineer Member Posts: 1,661
    My personal experience is that I have been able to pull in a salary that is at the very least equal to and often higher than my coworkers that do have a degree. That being said, I am probably one of those "exceptions to the rule". People are often shocked when they find out I don't have a degree. I am highly educated, even though I don't have a piece of paper that says so.
  • it_consultantit_consultant Senior Member Member Posts: 1,903
    No one believes I don't have a degree either. The sad fact is, for me, if I added up all the hours I went to college pursuing my various interests, I would have a few degrees by now icon_smile.gif.
  • the_Grinchthe_Grinch Stayed at a Holiday Inn.. Member Posts: 4,165 ■■■■■■■■■■
    I have to agree that the current economic climate dictates the wage you will get more so then your degree. At this point, employers are like people looking to buy a house and have no other debt. It is a buyers market and they can offer out a lot lower salaries to people with degrees, so obviously they might offer less to people without degrees. That being said though, I'm pretty sure most companies have an amount worked into the IT budget that they plan to pay and will pay that amount as long as you meet the skills required for the position.

    As a side story, we have a family friend who works in the county government. He was speaking to my dad about how he hired two guys to do some system administration/helpdesk level work. I had recently graduated and had there been a posting I would have qualified. So my dad asked why he hadn't mentioned it since they had spoken about how I was looking for a job. He replied that both these guys had been VP's making six figures prior to being laid off and both had families. So the county got two VP's with degrees, experience, and the skillset they wanted for a very good price. Supply and demand....
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  • BigMevyBigMevy Member Member Posts: 68 ■■■□□□□□□□
    Honestly, I thought getting my Associates was enough. I have some certs, have about 4 years experience in IT now (almost 2 as a SysAdmin doing everything from T1 HelpDesk, to configuring Firewall policies on Cisco ASA 5505s and Palo Alto-500s, Active Directory redesign, Cisco/HP/Dell/ switch configs, 2 major conversions of VMWare.. one being a 3.5->4.1 upgrade in a FC environment, and the other being a complete Phys -> Virtual environment in iSCSI, managing mixed Red Hat/Windows systems, SQL and Progress DB servers, etc etc etc. Perks for being in a small 3-man shop for 2 100+ employee companies). Needless to say, in the last 2 years my resume has grown significantly.

    And I still feel that not having a BS is holding me back. I am not actively looking for a job, but I always look to see what is trending out there and always touch base with local recruiters to stay relevant. And more often than not, job postings require degrees. I honestly think it is because of the devaluing of the Bachelor's degree. It is now so common because everyone has one. Where as historically college was for academia, it is now the norm for pretty much any profession/trade you want to get into.

    Right or wrong is debatable. It doesn't really matter. The simple truth is a degree will never hurt you. Not having one can possibly hurt you. I would say in our field a degree is more likely to get you in the interview process- your experience, personality, and cultural fit will get you the job.

    This sounds familiar. I know when I got out of the military back in 99 and started getting jobs in the civilian world, the focus for IT jobs was certifications. Many job listings I would read would list a bachelor's in computer related field more as a nice to have rather than a requirement, mostly they wanted MCSEs or people with experience. I had an associates when I came out of the Air Force, so I figured I was good.

    Lately though I've been looking a bit at possibly getting a new gig. I've been in the same place now for almost 7 years, and haven't had to interview or apply for a job in 9. So from looking at recent Dice listings I see there's been a shift, it seems that a bachelor's is almost always listed as a requirement. That's what decided me to go back to school last fall, and hopefully I'll have my BS in IT by next spring.

    All that said, I would agree with many of the sentiments here. I think having a degree will likely help your salary negotiations, but given the state of the economy lately it's an employers market right now. Regardless if they need a technical position, they will pay for it. I've had two friends recently change jobs in IT and both ended up with better paying positions.
  • NetworkingStudentNetworkingStudent Senior Member Member Posts: 1,407 ■■■■■■■■□□
    the_Grinch wrote: »
    I have to agree that the current economic climate dictates the wage you will get more so then your degree. At this point, employers are like people looking to buy a house and have no other debt. It is a buyers market and they can offer out a lot lower salaries to people with degrees, so obviously they might offer less to people without degrees. That being said though, I'm pretty sure most companies have an amount worked into the IT budget that they plan to pay and will pay that amount as long as you meet the skills required for the position.

    As a side story, we have a family friend who works in the county government. He was speaking to my dad about how he hired two guys to do some system administration/helpdesk level work. I had recently graduated and had there been a posting I would have qualified. So my dad asked why he hadn't mentioned it since they had spoken about how I was looking for a job. He replied that both these guys had been VP's making six figures prior to being laid off and both had families. So the county got two VP's with degrees, experience, and the skillset they wanted for a very good price. Supply and demand....

    So wait, you are saying there were 2 Vice presidents that took help desk jobs and systems administration jobs, and they used to make at least 100,000?

    So basically they knew nothing about IT, but someone trained them and showed thme how-to do the work, at least that is my understanding of your story.
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  • onesaintonesaint Senior Member Member Posts: 801
    No one believes I don't have a degree either. The sad fact is, for me, if I added up all the hours I went to college pursuing my various interests, I would have a few degrees by now icon_smile.gif.

    I"m in this boat. Been in school for years, but never aligned my interests to a specific degree. So, now I'm focusing in on the degree and less on my random (Programming, Photography, etc.) interests.
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