Serious advice pleease!!!

I have been in my company for 3 years now and by the end of this year I will have many qualifications MCITP in SQL 2008 Database Admin & Server 2008 Ent Admin, CCNP R&S, Cisco ASA Specialist, CCNA Security and CCDA. I have two exams left to complete all of above. I have also got experience with Avaya and Cisco Aironet

I might also do Exchange & CCNA Voice exams too if I have time this year.

However dispute achieving all these qualifications and constanly demonstrating my skill-set (and clearly one of the smartest in my team) I am still one of the lowest earners in my team and the whole entire company (with a biggggg gap). My salary is also below market value for someone with my technical ability.

Should I ask for a pay rise to justify my skill set and the work I have done/still doing for the company and the techinal ability needed to these tasks (Is this a good idea in anyone experience?) Or should I just move on to bigger things?

Many thanks in advance

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Comments

ptilsen

What are your qualifications now? Where you could be at the end of the year doesn't seem pertinent.

That being said, if you like your current company and your only problem is compensation, bring it up with management. You're probably not going to "get in trouble" or anything for asking for a raise. If it doesn't happen, then yes, it's time to move on.

wweman121

My current qualifications are all of above my one exam left until CCNP and then CCDA next. But the exams are just paper I am already preforming tasks in the company that are 'CCIE level'.

RobertKaucher

What sort of value does your company place on certification? Did they pay for those certs or did you achieve them on your own?

In my experience the best way to get a raise is to get a job at a new company. I would say start looking and if you get an offer approach your boss then. It is always best to bargain from a position of strength. It's nearly impossible to go from $35K to $50K within the same company.

Asif Dasl

It's possible you don't have as much experience as the other team members and maybe cause you never made a fuss about getting raises they ignored the issue. You know your situation best - find the market rate, demonstrate the gap after you have checked the job situation in your area and then if they don't give you a raise, move.

ptilsen

If you go as far as getting an offer from another company, it is time to move on. Talk to your current employer and go for the raise now. Either they will pay you an amount commensurate to your experience, qualifications, and skill level, or they won't. Sure, a competing offer will eek out an extra percent or two, but at that point you've likely ruined the professional relationship. It will never be the same after you've positioned your employer in the choice of losing you yo another organization or paying above a certain amount. Some employers will immediately begin searching for a replacement, while others will simply not treat you as well, put you up for promotions, etc.

Talk to your employer about your current compensation, then move on if they will not pay you the appropriate amount.

wweman121

I am coming towards 3-5 years experience and I have demonstrated skill no one else in the team has and in the most powerful areas in the I.T. field Voice, SAN & Security.

I am bit scared to ask

ptilsen

wweman121 wrote: »

I am bit scared to ask

Unless you know the company to be prone to firing people without much cause, you shouldn't be. If you do know the company to be prone to firing without much cause, then just move on. If you're just nervous to have the conversation, you'll have to overcome that.

spicy ahi

How is your work environment? Is there access to a lot of technology? Do you have enough work that keeps you busy? Are there opportunities to learn new things? Do you enjoy the company of your coworkers? Is it a friendly and open environment where everyone gets along? Aside from compensation, is your company and managment receptive and sensitive to your needs (let you go a bit early for an emergency, let you come in a little late if you're running late without having to take time off) A lot of times people forget to consider the entire situation when assessing their job. Unless you're in dire need of money, compensation is only one part of your job to consider when taking full stock of the value of the job. I've known folks who "chased paper" into jobs that paid more but were dead end positions with little opportunity for growth or self improvement then ending up going to a job similar to one they left for less pay than they were originally making.

My advice is take a look at the entire scope of your job and see if you can find more than just compensation as a negative. Draw up a good and bad list and weigh both sides. After all of that, if you're still feeling under compensated then I'd say update that resume and start job hunting. You'll find your true value quickest on the open market and if you get a good offer from another company, you can easily go back to your management and say you have a standing offer for x that you're considering and you are respectfully asking if they'd be willing to match/raise. If yea, then it's your call to stay. If nay, you drop your two weeks and look forward to a new adventure with some measure of confidence that you gave leaving enough thought that you shouldn't regret it.

Akaricloud

It normally doesn't hurt to ask as long as you do it right but be aware there may be other reasons why you're not getting paid as much.

No offense but technical ability isn't everything and from your few posts here it looks like some of your other skills may be lacking. I would have a real hard time promoting you with the lack of communication skills you've demonstrated in this thread alone.

itsgonnahappen

I think a big part of you feels they're taking advantage of you and you want your due credit and pay. And you should.

Personally, I would seek a higher paying position. Your qualifications are impressive and you shouldn't have too much of difficult time finding a better opportunity.

Once you receive an offer from another company, let your current employer know that you received said offer and see if they'll match. If not, move on.

If you feel you deserve better, then it's in your hands to seek those opportunities.

wweman121

I really do give a 100% and work hard behind the scenes for any technical challenges. Since I also joined the company I have totally reviltized the I.T space setting up multi-vlan roaming wireless, voice vlan, anti-virus, windows updates, DCs, DNS servers & backup vpn ASA, network software, install entire remote networks by myself the list goes on & on.

Has you can see its not just the certs i have also done sooo much things too.

I am not at all motivated by money but when i look at things my salary is quite low and the company could not replace me with someone ANYWHERE near my skill set or techincal ability with the salary I am getting. Also its not the market value and i am one of the lowest paid the whole company.

The only other thing is because I am very strong minded and passionate about IT, I have a lot of technical arguments with my IT manager and i am the only one in the teams that talks back technical and suggest other technical solutions to things because I have the knowledge.

CodeBlox

wweman121 wrote: »

i am one of the lowest paid the whole company.

How do you know this? People generally aren't supposed to discuss pay at work.

ptilsen

CodeBlox wrote: »

How do you know this? People generally aren't supposed to discuss pay at work.

Management might discourage it, and it can be bad form. On the other hand, it can be mutually beneficial and it is a legal right, in the United States. As employees, we are free to discuss salaries with other employees. That's not to say there can't be repercussions for running around and telling everyone how much money one makes.

I stand by my advice. It really should not hurt to ask. Ask, and go from there.

BigMevy

Does your company do annual reviews? If so, I would bring it up at your next review. Generally that is when pay adjustments are made, and if what you're saying is true any manager with his/her salt would probably be willing to bring you up to a more appropriate level of pay. Particularly if they are reporting that they are happy with your production and work effort. If they won't work with you then it may be time to look at moving on.

Most of my colleagues have either gotten raises that way, or by finding a new position. Many times they would end up getting counter-offers to stay, though they rarely accepted them.

jdancer

You need to backup your raise request with facts. Just going in and asking for a raise doesn't cut it. Go search 'negotiating pay raise'. If the organization doesn't recognize your value, then time to move on. Whatever you do, do NOT accept a counter-offer. A counter-offer is just a belated acknowledgement of your contributions.

Valsacar

RobertKaucher wrote: »

What sort of value does your company place on certification? Did they pay for those certs or did you achieve them on your own?

In my experience the best way to get a raise is to get a job at a new company. I would say start looking and if you get an offer approach your boss then. It is always best to bargain from a position of strength. It's nearly impossible to go from $35K to $50K within the same company.

I did, not those exact numbers (higher) but a 35% pay increase. I was doing a senior level position for over a year an a half while in a junior position, manager got me moved into the correct position for the work. Came with a nice little salary jump. Making it even better my annual performance raise came in a couple months later.

NetworkVeteran

CCNP R&S, Cisco ASA Specialist, CCNA Security and CCDA. I might also do Exchange & CCNA Voice exams too if I have time this year.

wweman121 wrote: »

My current qualifications are all of above my one exam left until CCNP and then CCDA next. But the exams are just paper I am already preforming tasks in the company that are 'CCIE level'.

dispute achieving all these qualifications and constanly demonstrating my skill-set (and clearly one of the smartest in my team)..

You mean, despite achieving some of those certifications. In the sphere of networking you actually only have a valid CCNA, CCNA Security, and Cisco ASA Specialist credentials.

An employer will generally reward you based on your real contributions, not potential contributions, and certainly not potential certifications. I would stop talking in terms of ability, would've / could've / should've. Tell your boss what you've done, especially that's in-line with his business objectives yet beyond what your co-workers do. Ask if he is satisfied with the quality of your work, and if so, why are you paid less than teammates?

I have totally reviltized the I.T space setting up multi-vlan roaming wireless, voice vlan, anti-virus, windows updates, DCs, DNS servers & backup vpn ASA, network software, install entire remote networks by myself the list goes on & on.

This is better. Just be sure you have some concrete facts / data to back you up. For example, I'm immediately skeptical that you "reviltized the I.T space" by setting up "anti-virus" and "windows updates", as these are just typical tasks performed by totally-interchangeable IT guys of any skill level at any company. If you can tie what you've done to business objectives or the bottom line you should be golden.

BTW, none of the responsibilities you list sound much like a CCNP skill-level would help. It's entirely possible that the certifications you are working on have little value for your current role.

wweman121

When you put it that ways its sounds a bit hash

Please take inconsideration i am a system administrator not just network guy at the moment. So i work with NetAPP, SQL, Server 2008 ect. plus i am the best at doing networks tasks in the team. So in general i do 99% of networking tasks, the switching tasks i do are definatly at the CCNP Switch level and if I didnt do the CCNP Switch I would not know what I am doing. Plus i also do a lot more than the task mentioned but i setup a lot of things myself.

In your experience are networking guys generally the most paid the IT team?

DevilWAH

Being the best does not mean much honestly. It all depends how good the rest are, and how IT centred your current company is.

I managed the network for a non IT company and got paid very poorly as they do not view IT as important. Moving in to a IT centred service provider I see help-desk engineers on more than I sue to be on, in fact some on the same as IT managers where at my last place. And wait till you work with some "real" network engineers. CCIE level takes on a different meaning. The tasks you hve described are what I would consider basic networking tasks, nothing on there approaching close to CCIE level. While you may be a good network engineer and above the others in your company, many of the project you discuss are things I did back when I had a few years experience I did not consider my self an expert back then, and still do not now with a few more years experience on top. I am now responsible for managing and developing a entire network with all the technologies you mentioned and many more on top and again still it is not CCIE level stuff.

When I started my CCNP I thought it was straight forward and I most of it I had already done on live networks. But when you come to a place Like I work at now, you find out that CCNP is not even skimming the surface of networking.

I am all for discussing with you boss about a pay rise, and if you can demonstrate some real in depth knowledge of you field and where not just you knowledge but also you pro active thinking has improved the business / saved money then you may well end up with a nice answer. And be wary of "market" value, to many people use the argument to get a rise of "I could get more if I went some where else" to which the response is "well of you go then", its surprising to see just how few people then go on to leave. It seems every one know about these jobs out there paid twice as much, but no one who goes on about them ever seems to get one??

3-5 years experience and CCNA level certs are nothing to special, I would say average for some one keen on getting in to networks. it does sound like you get a variety of experience in you job so I would consider biting the bullet and enjoying it. You will find a lot of companies are a lot more restrictive in what you get up to and the numbers of pies you can have a finger in.

wweman121

Thanks itsgonnahappen this is exactly how I feel. Because it comes to a point when I look and see that the company could not replace me with my current salary for anyone anywhere near my technical ability and that can do the tasks that I do at my technical level (a lot more than mentioned above...).

I know that no one in IT is irreplaceable...

MrBishop

RobertKaucher wrote: »

In my experience the best way to get a raise is to get a job at a new company. I would say start looking and if you get an offer approach your boss then. It is always best to bargain from a position of strength.

I would highly disagree with this approach! I've seen professional state that if the company isn't compensating you already then bargaining with them isn't a good solution. The reason is that when/if it comes to laying people off they will look at you as the person that was willing to leave unless you got a raise. The second problem deals with getting an additional raise in the future. They're gonna say that we just gave you a raise and you're asking for another one this year? Lastly, if you happen to take a position with another company and your company offers you more money, never take that offer; it could come back to haunt you. Nothing is wrong with asking, but you need to negotiate future raises as well. NEVER put your company up against a future employer!

JustFred

I agree with Bishop, when reorganization comes around you will the first person they put their foot into your as*. Try to leave on good terms if they are not willing to increase your salary in the long run.

wweman121

Many thanks for all your advice guys. Can't believe it been nearly one year!!!

Well I had my end of year review and to cut a long story short I had a pay increase and I am still being paid between 25 -42% (more 42%)below other people will my skill set.

I am work for broadcast company so I really enjoy the role and sometimes it feels like I am not working at all.

What should I do guys?

Should wait until the end of the year for another salary review or should I move on? (I just feel really scared to move on because this will be my first big move)

I have put my CV out in the job sites and I have turn down a few interviews for 25 -42% increase in my salary. The reason is I am looking for another networking role in broadcast sector.

Do you network guys care what company you work with? Or do you have a more focus in working in network environment with lots of good Cisco gear but a boring company like a gas company or financial sector.

Please help guys!!!! I want to make the right move in my career.

I have also boosted my certs since last year. So now my certs look like- (I know certs are not everything

)
CCNP
CCNA
CCNA SEC
ASA Specialist
CCDA
MCITIP (Server 2008 & SQL 200

Thanks

Node Man

in any possible outcome, you need to find out the truth, either they are going to give you what you want, or they are not. either way, you know the truth.

Sounds Good

To put things into perspective, could you post your salary and what you think you should be making? input your location as well.

PurpleIT

wweman121 wrote: »

Well I had my end of year review and to cut a long story short I had a pay increase and I am still being paid between 25 -42% (more 42%)below other people will my skill set.

Did you bring up your perceived pay inequality as part of the review? Or better yet, BEFORE your review so your supervisor could factor that in?

Also note, I say "perceived inequality" because to management there may be a very good reason you are paid the way you are. It may not be valid to you, but if it is to the people who sign the paychecks that is a very important thing for you to know and could be the deciding factor as to whether you stay or go.

Should wait until the end of the year for another salary review or should I move on? (I just feel really scared to move on because this will be my first big move)

If they didn't give you the big raise you wanted this year what makes you think your next review will be any different?

Depending on how long ago your review was you MAY be able to address your issues and have them reevaluate you, but if it has been more than a week or two it's going to be tough. Go in with facts, not opinions. Saying you are the best/smartest would be an opinion, saying you do 50% of the work in a 4 person team would be a fact. Have facts and be able to back them up or you are just another person asking for more money.

I have put my CV out in the job sites and I have turn down a few interviews for 25 -42% increase in my salary. The reason is I am looking for another networking role in broadcast sector.

Do you network guys care what company you work with? Or do you have a more focus in working in network environment with lots of good Cisco gear but a boring company like a gas company or financial sector.

Ahh... that is going to be tricky. I assume there are a limited number of companies in broadcasting so you have immediately limited your options. Nothing wrong with that, but it is cold hard fact that you have to factor in to your decision.

As for caring who I work for, I do and I don't. I'd rather have a job that fulfills me regardless of the industry than have a job I loathe with the coolest company on Earth.

I currently work in a counter-drug program and we have SWAT guys walking around, drug sniffing dogs in the hallways, expensive seized cars and motorcycles in the parking lot and all kinds of cool spy-gear stuff the UC guys use. I recently received a nearly 15% raise at a time when everyone else has had their salaries frozen for 5 years, but I am burnt-out and other than one big IT project I am working on I have lost the desire to be here so I am going to leave.

I'd prefer to go to someplace cool; I had a good lead on a job at an amusement park two years ago, but even that would wear off in time and I'll want to ensure that my daily duties keep me engaged.

wweman121

Cheers for the advice really helpfull