Need General Career Advice, potentially starting new in IT

SectionZ

Hi all,

I'm new to this forum, and I don't possess a degree in IT. I am however thinking of going back to school to start a career.

Here is my situation:

I have a BA in Psychology, and an MA in Psychological counseling, with a Post in Professional Counseling. I have a case management job which pays a little over $40k a year. I have an associates clinical license to practice therapy (what I studied to do originally) however, I am accruing hours for my full license at a snail pace. I am with my company for almost 4 years, with no raises, and no sense of when/if that will ever happen. I am married for almost 2 years, own a condo in a nice town, and have a puppy at home.

My challenge is this. My wife makes almost twice that I make doing HR. Which would normally be fine, but we are having some expenses creep up and my case manager + side counseling job, won't be enough in a year or two, and there is no growth in the field. There are no full time clinical positions that I am qualified for (they all ask for the full license, I have the associates). So I was thinking of going back to school for Networking, which I think would be good fit for me. I am an avid gamer, and know lots about PC hardware, and I pick up computer knowledge pretty fast. Not saying I'm an expert, but lets just say I'm a talented padawan in search of a great master.

Here is where you guys come in. I was thinking of getting an associates degree in Network Communication Management from Devry, followed by a BA in the same. I would then study for my CCNA and try to pass that ASAP. Is this a good path to go down? I really enjoy working and tinkering computers (I build my own gaming machines, as well as beta test the latest games, and actually TEST them), however I am scared that going back to school at my age (29) could be challenging considering all the expenses I have.

Would it even make sense to get degrees in Network Communications? Or would certifications get me by. I'm thinking degrees + certs would be the best option, depending on how fast I can complete them.

Truth be told I feel like I'm depressed. Bills are piling up, and salarywise, I don't feel I'm pulling my weight. Recently I have been changed to a new supervisor who micromanages me, which I can't stand. I loathe going to work, and its not healthy.

Any advice you all could give me would be fantastic.

Thank you,

SectionZ

MickQ

Maybe you should look for a new place to work and consider getting your full licence. If you were to do IT certs, you'd effectively be starting again.
Beta testing software won't bring in big bucks either (I did it).

At 29, you're still young. It depends on how much interest you'd have in what you need to learn. Lie down on the couch over there and tell me all about it.
Seriously though, you need to take a nice long walk in the fresh air and then re-evaluate what you have in you life, and where you'd like to go. Sit down with a pen and many sheets of paper, then write out what you want to do, what you actually really want (money?), and then how you could get there (also how much you'd spend to do so). Take a look on job advertisements and see what employers want, and are offering for that.

SectionZ

Well the thing is, a lot of stating funding dried up. There are plenty of mental health positions open, but they all require a full license, which I don't have and am earning at a snail's pace.

I have done some soul searching and the field in general leaves a bad taste in my mouth. The beaurocracy of helping people is ridiculous. I need to find a field where growth is limited by talent, not by state boards that don't give a crap whether you exist or not. I feel like a loser right now to be honest.

Money for the education isn't an issue. Its a question of whether I should go for it or not.

What degrees/certs do I need to earn a respectable salary.

MickQ

I'll assume that by saying $ you're American. Things are very different over here in Ireland, so that'd best be answered by others in your locality.

krjay

Welcome to the forum.

After an initial read through there seems to be some issues with your situation. I think you may be getting into IT and more specifically networking for the wrong reasons. Don't force yourself into networking because your wife is currently making more than you, and you liked to tinker with electronics in the past. Even if you are able to force yourself to learn enough material to obtain an entry-level networking gig you will probably not find much satisfaction if you don't enjoy doing it.

If you still want to get into networking after further analyzing whether it's what you want to do in life, re-evaluate the path you've outlined. Associate's, BA, then studying for CCNA is your currently outlined path. You mentioned your debt is piling up, do not further pile on debt with classes that may end up being completely useless because you don't like networking. Instead I would recommend looking into the Network+ or CCENT. Read the forums here, and maybe pickup a book recommended by those that participate in those forums. This will allow you to get a more firm understanding of what you're getting yourself into, and help you determine if this is something you're serious about or not. This route will be much cheaper than if you take even 1 class at the local community college.

Networking isn't a quick way to earn a ton of money, it requires a lot of work. I encourage you to give it a shot, just be sure you're not doing it for the wrong reasons or you will inevitably fail.

SectionZ

If I sounded like I am money hungry, then I apologize. Its not about that, its that I don't feel mental health is rewarding for me anymore. I took a college credit networking class back in high school, and while I wanted to tear my hair out sometimes, I had a lot of fun doing it.

I love being around gadgets and electronics, I feel I have a strong affinity for it. I think I could be successful at it, as I have a very analytical mind.

I understand that there is no quick buck, but I am working for my ass off for a little over $16/hr. Why not take that same energy, learn a valuable trade, enjoy the work that I would be doing, and earn more money at the same time.

Which books would you recommend? That is a good way to get started. I love working on computers as a hobby, and I think I would like networking too.

Qord

If you think that's what you want, then try it. BUT....don't give up anything of what you already have, not yet. Seriously give it a try, study for some certs or general topics of interest while still working where you currently work so you can really gauge the industry and get a feel for the possible topics. There's no reason to give up your current salary with the hopes you'll like IT better. Keep that safety net as long as possible.

SectionZ wrote: »

What degrees/certs do I need to earn a respectable salary.

That's going to vary from city to city and from industry to industry. There's no way no give an accurate answer to that without knowing more about your locale.

SectionZ

Qord wrote: »

If you think that's what you want, then try it. BUT....don't give up anything of what you already have, not yet. Seriously give it a try, study for some certs or general topics of interest while still working where you currently work so you can really gauge the industry and get a feel for the possible topics. There's no reason to give up a salary with the hopes you'll like IT better. Keep that safety net as long as possible.



That's going to vary from city to city and from industry to industry. There's no way no give an accurate answer to that without knowing more about your locale.

Fair enough answer. I am in the NY/NJ Area, with a respectable commute to the city if necessary.

I could still work and get a degree. I might add that I have only had 5 interviews in the past two years, and nobody bit. I don't know how many resumes I sent out, and how many jobs that I could do, but don't have a full clinical license (need the experience to get the job, but no jobs allow you to get experience).

MickQ

SectionZ wrote: »

Which books would you recommend? That is a good way to get started. I love working on computers as a hobby, and I think I would like networking too.

You'd best check out the relevant MS and Cisco sections here for that kind of info. Also look at the compTIA sections for coverage of those certs.
Really though, I'd be looking at how to combine IT with your existing qualifications. It seems like you enjoy helping people and are being frustrated in your desire to progress in that field.

krjay

SectionZ wrote: »

Fair enough answer. I am in the NY/NJ Area, with a respectable commute to the city if necessary.

I could still work and get a degree.

You have a BA, even though its psychology this will honestly be all you need for a while. The industry is driven by experience, certs, degree in that order. There is no need for you to chase another degree at this time. You need to gain entry level certs which will reinforce your basic understanding of networking, then try to obtain an entry-level position to gain experience.

I'm personally using Odom's CCNA book as well as CBT nuggets and I recommend both of them.

Edit: I would recommend visiting the CCNA/Network+ forums to read the many threads comparing all the books though.

SectionZ

My fear is that going in fresh with just a cert though is that companies will ignore that. How will I compete with those who already have degrees AND certs?

krjay

SectionZ wrote: »

My fear is that going in fresh with just a cert though is that companies will ignore that. How will I compete with those who already have degrees AND certs?

You have a BA in psychology, that is a degree. Even an IT centered degree will get you next to no IT jobs outside of entry-level positions, and these positions can be had by people with CCENT/Network+. If you get one of those certs and apply to the same job as the guy with no degree with network+, you're now ahead. The degree does not need to be in an IT field, this is unimportant right now. You need networking knowledge and this is most easily obtained by purchasing a book and studying for a cert.

Edit: Missed the MA part of your credentials.

bmy78

Hi Section,

I think you and I are in similar situations, so I'm not one to give advice, but here are my thoughts.

If you miraculously got your full license tomorrow, would you still want to leave psychology?
Could a job change make your life easier, or is it the work itself that you despise?
Would it really take that long to get your full license? It might take you longer to get where you want to go in networking.

I just ask these questions because it seems like you nvested a lot of time in your career. I did as well, but after a few years of teaching I've come to the conclusion that it isn't for me. I'd like to land a networking role within the next two years. To do that, I hope to land the comptia certs, land a help desk job, and work my way up. Perhaps that same plan would work for you.

paul78

krjay wrote: »

You have a BA in psychology, that is a degree. Even an IT centered degree will get you next to no IT jobs outside of entry-level positions, and these positions can be had by people with CCENT/Network+.

I would agree with krjay on this point. Chasing a degree at this point is not likely to get you any further and may further aggravate any financial hardships that you have. One thing that you have is professional experience - in entry-level IT - that counts - especially if you start at a helpdesk or IT support role. Your experience in health-care (I assume that's what professional counseling is considered) could also be leverage - perhaps you can focus on IT support positions in that industry. IT is a business support role and if you stick with an industry that you have experience with - ie health-care - that could get you a foot in the door. Perhaps the many hospitals in the NYC area could be a place to start.

If you require some education - perhaps as others suggested - start with the basics such as the Comptia certifications.

If it is helpful for you to know - I do not have a college degree and I have been successfully working in the technology for over 20 years. It's the experience and knowledge that counts.

SectionZ

bmy78 wrote: »

Hi Section,

I think you and I are in similar situations, so I'm not one to give advice, but here are my thoughts.

If you miraculously got your full license tomorrow, would you still want to leave psychology?
Could a job change make your life easier, or is it the work itself that you despise?
Would it really take that long to get your full license? It might take you longer to get where you want to go in networking.

I just ask these questions because it seems like you nvested a lot of time in your career. I did as well, but after a few years of teaching I've come to the conclusion that it isn't for me. I'd like to land a networking role within the next two years. To do that, I hope to land the comptia certs, land a help desk job, and work my way up. Perhaps that same plan would work for you.

Yeah its kind of the same thing, I don't think that I would want to continue the mental health field regardless of full licensure.

I dunno it may be worth it to get an associates that prepares me for the CCNA (or so they say...).

Again, I want to thank everyone for the kind advice.

What are comptia certs?

krjay

SectionZ wrote: »

Yeah its kind of the same thing, I don't think that I would want to continue the mental health field regardless of full licensure.

I dunno it may be worth it to get an associates that prepares me for the CCNA (or so they say...).

Again, I want to thank everyone for the kind advice.

What are comptia certs?

Comptia certs are entry level. While they create a solid networking foundation (specifically Network+), they provide little ROI in my opinion. You seem like the type of person that if you set out to obtain CCENT, you have the capacity to obtain it and shouldn't need to sit for the Network+. This has been debated thoroughly on these forums by the way.

If you are the type of person that needs a classroom setting and a professor assigning you material to stay on track, by all means start out with the associates. If you're like me and like to learn at your own pace, with the material of your choice, I'd advise against the associate's route. Be warned though the associates credential will do very little good on your resume, you will be attending these classes to gain the knowledge necessary for the CCNA. You could probably teach yourself the material on the CCNA much faster than the pace a community college would go through that same material.

paul78

SectionZ wrote: »

I dunno it may be worth it to get an associates that prepares me for the CCNA (or so they say...).

Bear in mind that having an associates is really only useful if you are a learner that requires structured instruction.

SectionZ wrote: »

What are comptia certs?

Check out the Comptia section of this forum. Also you can look here - CompTIA Just be aware that Comptia is sometimes regarded as entry-level but that seems appropriate in your case.

You mentioned preparing for the CCNA - that is a perfect choice if your interest lies squarely in the networking silo on Information Technology (which can be quite broard).

I sense that you may not be sure of what aspect of IT you are interested in - you mentioned that "enjoy working and tinkering computers". A CCNA does imply a specialization which doesn't necessarily include working with computers.

One way to perhaps learn a bit more about IT is looking at roles like helpdesk support.

SectionZ

Also, the university that I would be getting the associtats/bachelor's from also helps with job placement. That to me is very valuable as well.

To be competent in the field as an entry level, what certifications do you all recommend?

VAHokie56

SectionZ wrote: »

Also, the university that I would be getting the associtats/bachelor's from also helps with job placement. That to me is very valuable as well.

To be competent in the field as an entry level, what certifications do you all recommend?

My personal advice...I have no degree in networking or IT, the school you named is whats known as a "for profit" school. You may end up spending a lot of money for a degree there and then heaven forbid you decide not to use it... then your in the whole 30-40k. I started with the A+ and got a help desk job then took some Cisco courses and finished my CCNA and I had no trouble breaking into the field. Go to your local community college take there version of computer peripherals class and whatever Cisco/networking classes they have and find a entry level job like help desk or desk side then start grinding hard for a networking gig. Then you will have working experience and hopefully some certs...that's my advice

Qord

VAHokie56 wrote: »

You may end up spending a lot of money for a degree there and then heaven forbid you decide not to use it... then your in the hole 30-40k.

That's exactly what I would point out. I think it might benefit you to look into all of the CompTia certs (A+, Net+, Sec+, Server+, and even Linux+). Even if you don't study these, it's still a great idea to look at them and what they entail, as that will give you a nice overview of a few key areas of IT, and this might help guide your studies in a direction that interests you.

And I also think DeVry might not be the best idea.

hackman2007

SectionZ wrote: »

Also, the university that I would be getting the associtats/bachelor's from also helps with job placement. That to me is very valuable as well.

To be competent in the field as an entry level, what certifications do you all recommend?

As others have mentioned, stay away from for-profit schools, you will end up with a lot of debt and not much to show for it. DeVry is not considered to be that great of a school.

And as for job placement, is it really that valuable? It does not mean they will get you a job, it means they have limited services to help. They will look over your resume (TechExams can do this and I trust them more than the school), they have a listing of jobs (so does the Internet, that doesn't mean they have connections with the employers) and may have an opportunity for some interviews. The some interviews part is a bit misleading though. Chances are there will be a ton of people applying for the same position so it turns in to a "cattle call" basically. The employer will not remember you and you may not have any better chance at getting a job.

You have a degree, there is no need to get another degree. Get some books, read them, take a couple of computer classes if necessary and sit for some certification tests. You don't even need to take all the certification tests, reading books might be enough. Then just look for entry-level positions.

DigitalZeroOne

I skimmed through the posts, so I don't know if someone mentioned this, but if finances are a big concern, then I would have to assume (I know, don't assume) that you don't have the money to pay for Devry out of your own pocket, if that's true, then you will have to take out student loans, and you will most likely come in at an entry level position in IT. With all that, it seems like your salary would go down, while your expenses go up.

If you truly want to be in IT, then I say you should do it, but you should look at a community college to keep your expenses low, while still working in your current field. It will take time to ease into IT and then find a job that will pay you at least or better than your current salary.

Asif Dasl

I agree with most of the advice already given.

The best thing to do when you have money problems is to put everything down on paper (or in Excel is a 100 times better). How much you owe, income, expenses, savings, rainy day fund, the lot. Reduce all uncessary expenses. Work your way down from highest interest to lowest interest on all debts - check Dave Ramsey out for some common sense, it'll be money well spent. It's so valuable to be able look up a document with your current financial position and your future plans - and you can keep working on it. Life is much easier when you've got a rainy day fund.

Best of luck whatever you choose to do.

bmy78

Asif Dasl wrote: »

Life is much easier when you've got a rainy day fund.

+1 on this.

I've been in debt before and it feels horrible. Now, with the exception of my mortgage and my student loans that are around $100/month, I'm debt free. I have some savings and pay off my credit card each month. I feel much more free than seeing those credit card statements and being only able to pay off little more than the minimum.

SectionZ

While I appreciate the financial advice, the point of my thread was to see how to get started in IT, not so much life advice.

My education would be paid for by my parents so cost isn't an issue. I was curious though to see what people think about devry as a for profit school. Does that mean the education is bad?

hackman2007

SectionZ wrote: »

While I appreciate the financial advice, the point of my thread was to see how to get started in IT, not so much life advice.

My education would be paid for by my parents so cost isn't an issue. I was curious though to see what people think about devry as a for profit school. Does that mean the education is bad?

In general you should avoid for-profit schools (ITT Tech, DeVry, Vatterott, etc) simply because the amount you pay for the degree is so much more than what you get out of it. Since your parents are paying for it, it is not necessarily an issue. For-profit schools prey on the people that "just want to get a better job" without actually doing much research on the school. I'm not saying you didn't do any research, just please do not support a for-profit school when there are much better alternatives. For-profit schools sell false hope (OK, similar to non-profit, but at least they don't charge you craploads of money).

You need to do some searching for "DeVry sucks" and "For-Profit University".

And since you mentioned you live in the NJ area, check this out.

zenhound

I can't say whether the actual education is bad or not, but the for profit schools have a bad reputation based on a number of factors. They have a reputation for loading people up with wildly massive loan debt that they'll never be able to pay back. Also the for profit school entry process generally consists of checking for a pulse.

If you're insistent on getting more degrees, check out WGU (which is online and cheap) or local B&M colleges. But like others have said, to get started in IT you don't need more degrees. Get a couple of cert books, self study, see how you do on that.

If you're just looking for more money, though, be aware your starting salary in IT could very well be below what you're making now. Plenty of techs and support folks make in the 30s. If you're smart and hard working it's true there's the potential to make lots of money eventually though.

NetworkVeteran

SectionZ wrote: »

So I was thinking of going back to school for Networking, which I think would be good fit for me.

Good choice! A CS/EE degree is very helpful in landing a high-paying networking job.

I am an avid gamer, and know lots about PC hardware, and I pick up computer knowledge pretty fast. Not saying I'm an expert, but lets just say I'm a talented padawan in search of a great master.

What you've done on your home network will probably have only a small amount of relevance to what you learn in your CCNA or will be doing in real-world positions should you make your break into the networking field.

Here is where you guys come in. I was thinking of getting an associates degree in Network Communication Management from Devry

I can tell you for certain DeVry is on the do-not-hire list of many corporations. It's a vocational school. That's quite the opposite of getting the strong foundation that comes with a CS or EE degree at a major unversity.

followed by a BA in the same.

You do realize that "A" in "BA" stands for "Arts". You want the "S" in "BS" which stands for science.

I would then study for my CCNA and try to pass that ASAP.

You could do the cert-only path. You would have a rougher beginning and lower long-term earning potential, but it might get you earning money faster without spending money too much. Pair up that CCNA with maybe a CCNA Voice and CCNA Security and be willing to work any hours at whatever job you find to start. I would still consider a degree as part of your long-term career plan, even if you can't afford it just now. It helps immensely.

krjay

NetworkVeteran wrote: »

I would still consider a degree as part of your long-term career plan, even if you can't afford it just now. It helps immensely.

I think in the short-term there's no reason to chase another degree unless you need that structured learning environment. But you really think even long-term that him going back and pursuing a degree in the sciences would be beneficial considering he already has a Masters? To me it seems like a huge waste of time and money considering he already has a masters (even though it's a MA).

SectionZ

well I explored some classes at the local community college,

I will post the course titles later (at my bad casemanagement job right now), if you all would review and take a look I would appreciate it.

hackman2007

SectionZ wrote: »

I will post the course titles later (at my bad casemanagement job right now), if you all would review and take a look I would appreciate it.

Please post course descriptions as well if possible (they might be published along with the course titles). The course titles can sometimes be misleading.