Removed unnecessary quoted reply from previous post

jibbajabba

I keep seeing that a mod removes quotes ..

What is considered "unnecessary" ?

YuckTheFankees

I've been thinking the same thing. I will quote something that is relevant but it still gets marked "removed unnecessary quoted reply from previous post "

SteveLord

Like a few other things that come up, you wouldn't know unless you PMed a mod or made a post on it. Since for some reason, this site lacks any kind of newbie or welcome section/sticky. If one exists, it sure isn't easy to find. There is a FORUM RULES link, which takes you to a page with a few items on it.

Anyway, the answer...is that it apparently uses a lot of resources and slows down search results.

YuckTheFankees

thanks for the info SteveLord

Forsaken_GA

SteveLord wrote: »

Anyway, the answer...is that it apparently uses a lot of resources and slows down search results.

aka, vBulletin sucks

(sorry Webmaster, I just have a personal prejudice against the software from the days when I had to support it. Not fond memories!)

jibbajabba

I am working since UBB days with vBulletin and yes, it is a. lien up product since v4 but slowing down search results ? I got a forum with three times as much members and a lot more posts but that never was an issue unless the system is not configured properly and with that I mean PHP including caching etc.

Anyway, question isn't answered yet, what IS considered unnecessary ? Can someone post examples ?

If the db side of the server cannot handle searches that well then maybe disable quotes altogether.

*blown up (mobile theme doesn't allow edit).

ptilsen

I assumed there were two major factors:
1. It takes up space/slows down searches/etc.
2. It wastes space on a thread unnecessarily; the post to which you are replying can safely be assumed to be the one immediately preceding yours, in most cases, and you would quote or reference in others. Additionally, it is generally unnecessary to quote an entire post instead of just referring to the author.

demonfurbie

im just happy we have a forum like this

Plantwiz

Ptilsen has it pretty much summed up!


-Webmaster is running a forum here, not a chatroom. (Free of charge to the members, not to toss that up at anyone person, but he works hard to maintain a quality resource here for all of us...with no payment from us).

-The mod staff is made up of all volunteers. (So what? I cannot speak for the others, but I love helping out here and keeping this 10 year old resource of the same or better quality of content that Webmaster intended it to be used)

-We have a great search capablity within this forum, so results should populate quickly and fairly accurately.

-In a forum, it is known (or was known and in more recent times this seems to be coming unknown) that the content is read top-down. SO the conversation flows from one post to the next. Unforunately (personal opinion) the "Reply with Quote" button is in the prime spot to reply to a thread. This I believe, or hope is done most of the time in error. Nevertheless, it is abused when it is used to answer a post immediately above the your intended reply. For the benefit of the reader, it becomes a rather long and tedious thread to read through re-reading quoted reply after quoted reply after quoted reply.

The great thing is MOST of our members understand and abide by the rules as they agreed to when they opened their account. Unlike various social media places, I don't recall our user agreement changing abruptly on a weekly or monthly basis. Again, this is a forum for tech exam preparation. Not a news posting link. Not a ranting forum. Not a place for **** or cheats. Our staff does their best to maintain this integrity.

This forum is and was established to help IT students and those desiring to take IT related exams. Understand methodologies and learn about our industry. We are not running a recruiting site. A job posting site. Or in anyway looking to take away from the newest or oldest of members enjoyment and excitment about taking their first exam or 20th exam.

Cheer each other on! Assist in explaining topics that confuse others, but we do reserve the right to remove posts or edit posts that do not keep the site as it is intended.

I will leave this thread for now, but it may be moved or locked soon.

Webmaster

When previewing my post I see Plantwiz already posted an excellent reply and indeed ptilsen summed it up nicely, I'll submit mine anyway although it's somewhat redundant.

Anyway, question isn't answered yet, what IS considered unnecessary ? Can someone post examples ?

An unnecessary quote refers to quoting the post above your reply while it's obvious a reply to the post/thread. An obvious example: when someone posts a new thread and you are the first to reply it's unnecessary to quote the entire first post of the thread.

Forsaken_GA wrote:

(sorry Webmaster, I just have a personal prejudice against the software from the days when I had to support it. Not fond memories!)

Oh some days I don't like it much either, but as most packages it has it's pros and cons and switching to vBulletin a few years ago has had a major positive impact on TE I enjoy most aspects on both the front and backside.

It's however not related to vBulletin in particular (as for the configuration comment I think after 10 years I deserve some credibility in that area). It's simply a matter of keeping threads clean both on the front end (not having to scroll/read through "completely" unnecessary quotes) and the back end (storing unnecessary quoted, hence repeated data, it's not much, but it does add up over time).

Basically what it comes down to: Please use "Reply" by default, and use "Reply With Quote" only when you want to make clear a reply is specifically to another reply or better "part of another reply". Or if you do quote a large piece of text, remove the irrelevant parts. Or, use @username. I might just swap the two buttons as it seems to be partly a result of the new template since our upgrade last year. The green comments from some moderators about removing it are simply to steer things in the right direction.

The reason we never had a long list of rules and a READ ME FIRST! thread in every forum is because this is, as our forum rules and registration terms say, a discussion forum for IT professionals and those aiming to become one. This has worked for nearly 10 years and I see no reason to change that now. Also keep in mind our moderators are all volunteers with jobs, family, real life, etc. Since we implemented much better spam filtering systems last year a lot of what the moderators do go unnoticed, but you can take it from me that without them TE wouldn't be possible - and no they are not going to PM regarding every action they take especially something like removing unnecessary quotes. If you have a problem with that you can always PM me (well, as long as you aren't going to pester me about a basket weaving topic being removed from the IT cert forums ).

demonfurbie wrote: »

im just happy we have a forum like this

Agreed even if I say so myself.

Plantwiz wrote:

but it may be moved or locked soon

I'll leave it here for reference.

erpadmin

I'm probably one of the biggest offenders of using the "reply with quote" button and I do admit it is because of the convenience of where that button is.

Whenever I participate in forums such as this one, I have to keep in mind that visiting a forum that I don't run is like visiting someone's home. Yes, we are made comfortable here, but we're still all guests. I haven't made any bones about the removing quotes and in truth I was waiting for someone else to make waves about it.

All I can say is that I have been, as of late, been making a better effort to modify a quote and stick to just the pertinent issue that I want to respond to, plus add my own editorials, but that will usually be after I responded to what I wanted to respond to first.

bermovick

I'm probably a pretty big offender too (percentage-wise if not post-wise). I guess I just always did it to specify I was responding to that specific post (even if it was the post immediately preceding mine), as opposed to the OP or whatever the thread was originally about.

The above replies from the mods and make a lot of sense though, and I'll try to think before I click

Forsaken_GA

Webmaster wrote: »

The reason we never had a long list of rules and a READ ME FIRST! thread in every forum is because this is, as our forum rules and registration terms say, a discussion forum for IT professionals and those aiming to become one. This has worked for nearly 10 years and I see no reason to change that now. Also keep in mind our moderators are all volunteers with jobs, family, real life, etc. Since we implemented much better spam filtering systems last year a lot of what the moderators do go unnoticed, but you can take it from me that without them TE wouldn't be possible - and no they are not going to PM regarding every action they take especially something like removing unnecessary quotes. If you have a problem with that you can always PM me (well, as long as you aren't going to pester me about a basket weaving topic being removed from the IT cert forums ).

I don't think anyone has an issue with the policy, I think folks may have just been a little surprised, as if there was any communication on a policy change, I certainly missed it . However, the first time I saw one of my posts edited down, I didn't think it was a big deal. I trust the mods around here to exercise proper judgement, and happily defer to their administrative authority when it comes to keeping the place clean. It's not like anyone is censoring or editing the actual words a user typed. Y'alls house, y'alls rules, and I think everyone understands that and can respect it, especially now that it's been thoroughly explained

Webmaster

Thanks, it's indeed simply for the sake of keeping threads clean (for both posters and readers over the next years).

Forsaken_GA wrote:

I think folks may have just been a little surprised, as if there was any communication on a policy change, I certainly missed it.

It's more a change in us being more consequent, there hasn't been a policy change by itself, removing unnecessary quotes has always been a part of us "keeping the place clean" together with similar basic stuff like merging/moving/splitting posts/threads. It however became a more widespread habit (again I suspect partly due to some illogical template changes I should have changed back sooner) hence we decided to try and steer in the right direction in a more noticeable way than usual (though not entirely new to TE either). We pm-ed few frequent posters in an attempt to turn some good 'bad examples' in good 'good examples' but we quickly realized that doesn't fly without also editing out unnecessary quotes from others more consequently. A forum etiquette as a post/page was a possible next step we were considering but since this is one specific issue I think that would be like shooting a cannonball at a fly. (the part you quoted was mostly in regards to SteveLord's reply though, I should have quoted that properly ).


Let me point out our intention is merely to reduce the amount of unnecessary quotes, we're not aiming to eliminate them entirely (would be nice but unrealistic and unnecessary itself). We want to reach a point where we can go back to pm-ing exceptions / heavy unnecessary large quoters. If you think a quote is necessary, do quote (preferably only the part that really matters, a mod may still edit it out). Consider using @username if you worry that without a quote it won't be clear who you are replying to. Basically don't use the Quote button as a default means to reply.

That, now that I changed the buttons, feels a bit like pointing out the obvious. As you all may have noticed, I swapped the buttons and renamed the "Reply with Quote" to "Quote", basically as it was pre-TE4. I admit a little "weird" at first, but I think it actually looks better/cleaner imo and will probably help a lot towards making this a non-issue again.

tpatt100

I had a quote removed and removing it without a reference as to who I was replying to makes the post sound incomplete and not make sense, but whatever.

PsychoFin

Webmaster wrote: »

I swapped the buttons and renamed the "Reply with Quote" to "Quote"

Great move, Webmaster! This is how it should be. You will look up the Quote button when you have a need to quote, not when you just want to reply