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Jacob18

I have been going through the forums, reading whatever struck my fancy. I have some thoughts and would like to hear some views/thoughts/feedback.

1. I am an old geek, kaypro, learning programming with punch cards, portable computers that weighed 30lbs. I have no certifications yet. Looking at cissp. Work related cents like pmp. I am a project manager. I do have the experience.

2. I just never did them, deployments oversea, liberty calls, then family. Something had to done, how. Research it do it. Too busy working. I still operate on 18 hr days. Just have more time to reading/learning what I want.

3. Knowledge and being able to talk in manner to do and understand has worked pretty well. I bring subcontractors in. I do need to be able to talk to them and the "stake holders". Gotta love buzzwords.

Ok. Now the point. I have seen people discussing certs and jobs as if they should be synonymous. I have taken not taken a standardized test in 20 yrs or gotten a job with a resume or application even longer. Looking at the higher certs...cissp, gse,etc. the thought occurs to me if you have them you already have the contacts/networking to find a job advancement.

So I would suggest that younger ones think along those lines...just my thoughts.:)
Btw just for info and to prevent getting flamed..knowledge base. I just read through sec+, net+, a+, ccna books I have at the house..and cissp. Nothing really odd. Familiar even if the lingo has to translated a little...Linux is a little weak. Vertical learning curve for 30 yrs now. Wouldn't have it any other way..

I do hire contractors. Certs, experience, and track record are my considerations. If one of you younger ones approached me with certs and little exp. I would check attitude. Are you an eagle scout, how do you treat waitresses, test you out with supervision on a problem. But then someone is going to send you to me. So I'll a pretty good idea already. Can you add value to the bottom line. Ok enough rambling...

JDMurray

Welcome to TE, Jacob18!

As someone who has been playing with computers since experiencing that "new computer smell" with a TRS-80 back in 1977, I understand where you are coming from. How one works and gets hired as a computer technology (knowledge) worker has changed so much every decade since the 1970's. The first popular vendor IT certs only appeared 20 years ago, but they have become a necessary part of getting a tech job in the 21st century. The most efficient and cost-effective path to certification, that will have the highest ROI for a career, is a complex thing that every individual must determine for their own career goals. That's a major reason why people come to TechExams.net.

You are a hiring manager, so you understand that certifications fill a gap not covered by academic education or professional work experience. Back in the day, all an academic institution could give a technical graduate was a CS or EE degree, or an ET technical diploma. They couldn't validate how well you knew commercial or military equipment, design a network, write a computer programs, etc. All you could do is write up your experience on a resume and hope a hiring manager would spend enough time reading it to give you a shot at an interview.

Today, certification validates the knowledge and skills that a professional has by summarizing it under one item (i.e., a certification) in a resume or CV. This makes it easier for hiring managers to quickly determine if someone is a candidate to be interviewed for a job position. However, once the candidate's butt is in the interviewee chair, all paper is tossed out the window and it's only what's in the candidates head and heart that's judged in the interview. Your paper gets you the interview; your knowledge, skills, and experience gets you the job.

I should mention that, in addition to education, certification, and experience, there are two other factors are important to job-finding success: who you know and luck. These two factors, when with you, are game-changers that skew the odds in your favor. But when they are going against you, just pick you butt up out of the chair and go find your next interview.

Jacob18

Yep JD,
You and I come from the same era, I'm a little older. The trash 80, pong, arcade video games.

To summarize and help the younger ones.
1. Certs.
2. Experience.
3. Track Record.
4. Who you are/who you know.
5. Luck.
Those help you move to more responsibility, money, knowledge in job advancement.

Every once in a while I see one of the old computers on ebay and get a little nostalgic and weepy, then shake my head back to reality.
cp/m, dropping a computer from a height from 6 inches to reseat the chips, AS400, tracking and/or gates on a print, bubblecharts, easter egging
a system.. Or soldering parts on a board with no bench for the proper job. Microsoldering on a rolling boat, the soldering iron so big it seems like you are being asked to do microcalligraphy with a kindergardner's first pencil. Why? Because you don't have the parts and you have get the system back up...LOL Now video games can show the blades of grass blowing in the wind.

You are right about the lack of certs and interpreting someone's skills esp. in the military.
Nowadays, kids can graduate high school with CCNA, a+. We were stuck with AP classes, and shop for the other ones.

The economy is much worse and been bad longer than 82/83 timeframe. Lots of businesses start sucessfully during recessions. Microsoft, apple, etc.
If you can hang on get moving forward, when the economy does take off you'll do very well...lay the ground work now. What can you contribute to the company, bottom line etc..

Back to topic of CISSP. I have the experience for this exam already. I think for me this test will not be that hard. I could be wrong, but study, etc.
I should not have to study for a year, everything was familiar.
I looked through Shona Harris' AIO yesterday at barnes and noble for a couple of hours. I may have a prospective to help
people looking at this.

Guys try to imagine that you are on top of the building, like king kong. You own the business, building and are responsible for everything.
Now, go. The building gets blown away by a tornado, or hurricane. The servers are now just metal chaff blowing in the wind.
What do you do? Back ups, notify people, etc.
The mindset will help you wrap your brain around the exam. Just my thoughts.

JD I enjoyed our chat and look forward to many more. We gotta pay it forward as they say.

J

kalkan999

I seem to be a little behind you guys, but not too much. But to date myself, we affectionately refer to the RadioShack computer as the 'Trash-80.' I always loved computers. My first home pc was the Commodore Vic-20. I mowed lawns from age 12 (1982) JUST to upgrade computers in the house that my whole family used. I 'repaired' systems that my neighbors threw out, so I have exposure to more obscure systems that you two talk about JD and Jacob. I mean, we are talking Timex Sinclair 1600's and Atari 400 systems here!
I was the first in the neighborhood with all the new computers, save the expensive ones like the XT's. I was the 13 year old who sat there scratching his head, wondering how some teenager like David Lightman in 'Wargames' could afford an Elephant disk, a phone phreaking black box, a 2400 baud modem, and a voice synthesizer.
I want to add TWO addendums to the Y or Millenium generation reading our threads:

1. Find a local ISSA chapter and join immediately. It's good to make nice with other InfoSec people, as we are an excellent resource for advancing your careers. Most of us who are in ISSA do it because we enjoy teaching one another tricks of the trade, and we are always in it for the free lunches provided by vendors peddling their wares for an hour at a time.

2. Volunteer to teach what you know to those younger than you. Not to tout myself, but I volunteer my services during the school year to a program for teens called CyberPatriots, sponsored by the Civil Air Patrol. I have the very fulfilling honor of teaching the brightest of our young people (ages 14 -20), who are themselves, taking time away from their own hectic teenage schedules to learn and to compete against 1000 other teams throughout the nation. Teaching what you know is a great way to keep up on the latest and greatest technologies, AND it keeps a lot of the information fresh and at the front of your brain, ready for instant recall.

Jacob18

I remember kids like you. And yes we should pay it forward. One of the reasons why I support scouts.
You would have been in awe of me back then...tracking AND gates, OR gates through schematics through registers, bubble charts, microsoldering components on boards, and living the hunt for red october...LOL now you could teach me some things.

It's nice to advance knowledge, we get as much out of it as the kids. And it does keep us fresh in our mental processes.
We have a lot to teach the young ones. BTW take a look at the stories on FLAME that are starting to come out. Impressive.
Complex C&C, network printers. I wish I had the skills to really analyze this piece of software. I am curious to see if it uses a centralized or decentralized C&C, suspect both. 20mb virus/worm, slash whatever. A real piece of art from what I can decipher so far. thinking one way to stop it would be analyzing for obscure ports being used for communications. I really think comms would be the way to go there. Just my thoughts.

J