ccna to ccie...why no prerequisites

iyareiyare Member Posts: 46 ■■■□□□□□□□
I have been advised by three CCIE's to go straight for the CCIE written. All three of them say it is a waste of money to go through the CCNP exams and I will get offers if I at least had the written. I am obliged to believe them. However, I have received good advise from this forum when I was doing my CCNA. Why is that Cisco doesn't require prereqs for the written if you are truly meant to do the NP first?
CCENT, CCNA(EXPIRED), BS Electrical Engineering (Communications/Optics/Nanotechnology)

Comments

  • IristheangelIristheangel CCIEx2 (Sec + DC), CCNP RS, CCNA V/S/R/DC, CISSP, CEH, MCSE 2003, A+/L+/N+/S+, and a lot more from m Pasadena, CAMod Posts: 4,133 Mod
    There is no "meant to" when it comes to the Cisco exams. If you're new and you're just learning, it's natural to go through the natural progression from associate>professional>expert, but if you already have the knowledge then you just have to prove it for the exam. The CCIE has the lowest pass rate for almost any test in any field (26% overall) and there's a reason why only about 20K or so people actually have the credentials. Cisco doesn't need to put prerequisites for it since the test stands alone in difficulty.

    That being said, it's impossible to BS the CCIE lab so unless you actually know what you're doing, you'll fail. If you pass, then you deserve the credentials and who cares what certification steps you took to get there?
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  • networker050184networker050184 Mod Posts: 11,962 Mod
    You have to learn it all anyway so you might as well have some stepping stones along the way. Studying for a year straight with nothing gained in the middle can be pretty demotivating. Getting three exam passes and a new certification along the way can help to set milestones and keep you motivated. That CCNP will help you get jobs better than no certification as well.
    An expert is a man who has made all the mistakes which can be made.
  • jasong318jasong318 Member Posts: 102
    The CCIE was the original Cisco certification and didn't have any prereq's because it was the first, everything else came after. We now have the NA and NP because not everyone needs an IE. I would recommend going for the CCNA and then CCNP as this will give you the building blocks for the IE, especially if you don't have the recommended 3-5 years experience. Plus, I would think you would be more likely to get picked up with a CCNA or CCNP then just the CCIE written.
  • MrBishopMrBishop Member Posts: 229
    I definitely agree with taking the initial baby steps in getting certified unless you know your stuff and its not going to be needed. Instead of having this long build up of anxiety and stress placed upon your for a long duration of time without any gratification can be demotivating like stated above. Even though the gratification is short lived for me, it still give me a feeling of accomplishment in short term goals. I don't know how others feel once they pass an exam, but I feel excited and discouraged at the same time. Just because I'm still waiting for that opportunity to open up and have all this hard work finally pay off.
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  • NOC-NinjaNOC-Ninja Member Posts: 1,403
    Because Cisco doesn't mind taking your $350 from written and $1500 from lab.
    Its the toughest test out there under CCDE
  • shodownshodown Member Posts: 2,271
    There is no "meant to" when it comes to the Cisco exams. If you're new and you're just learning, it's natural to go through the natural progression from associate>professional>expert, but if you already have the knowledge then you just have to prove it for the exam. The CCIE has the lowest pass rate for almost any test in any field (26% overall) and there's a reason why only about 20K or so people actually have the credentials. Cisco doesn't need to put prerequisites for it since the test stands alone in difficulty.

    That being said, it's impossible to BS the CCIE lab so unless you actually know what you're doing, you'll fail. If you pass, then you deserve the credentials and who cares what certification steps you took to get there?


    That use to be the case. There are people dumping the exams these days. I'm not going to say there methods, but a lot of people **** and pass the lab.
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  • MrBishopMrBishop Member Posts: 229
    Actually, no! The method is out there to get an idea of passing the lab but you still have to know a lot about networking! If you think you're just going to look at some workbooks and go pass the lab exam, just look at all the failures! I mean, it is possible but these people are only hurting themselves without putting in the hours of doing lab work (Not experience!!) I don't think someone needs years of experience to pass it but I don't like people taking the exam 3 or 4 times hoping to get a specific lab they studied for! <----This is just ridiculous!
    Degrees
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  • spiderjerichospiderjericho CCNA, CCNP Enterprise, CISSP, CASP, SEC+, Pentest+, CYSA+, CISA, CGEIT, CRISC, CISM, VCP 6.7 San DiegoRegistered Users, Member Posts: 869 ■■■■■□□□□□
    What Showdown means is that there are steps one can takes to learn the ins and out of the troubleshooting Lab. I discovered a site and was like wtf!! Is nothing sacred. The only issue is keeping pace with Cisco. Now if you don't know what you're doing then you're assed out, which is why it helps to know the stuff in case Cisco does an Aha.

    Edit:I agree Mr. Bishop.


    And passing the CCIE written test doesn't give you the qualification. So if you're trying to progress and maybe trying to obtain credentials to advertise/pad your resume, then getting the CCNP would be good.

    Having said that, I know someone who passed the CCIE without getting a CCNP.
  • EssendonEssendon Member Posts: 4,546 ■■■■■■■■■■
    One of our mods, Ahriakin, got his CCIE: Sec straight from CCNA. He too doesnt recommend it.
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  • iyareiyare Member Posts: 46 ■■■□□□□□□□
    Wow, this is why you guys rock. You tell the hard truth that I don't want to hear in such a nice, forceful manner. I kinda thought it would be a big jump to go from CCNA to CCIE written but the temptation to be amongst the big dogs is nice. I am going to see about getting advise for the NP. I have no experience in this field at all but it is fun stuff!
    CCENT, CCNA(EXPIRED), BS Electrical Engineering (Communications/Optics/Nanotechnology)
  • kj0kj0 Member Posts: 767
    This should give you just a little idea.

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  • SettSett Member Posts: 187
    If you have just ccna and no experience it doesn't make any sense to go for CCIE. At all.
    Non-native English speaker
  • kj0kj0 Member Posts: 767
    What is your career Goal? Why do you want a CCIE right now? Have you done much enterprise Network support using just CCNA knowledge?
    2017 Goals: VCP6-DCV | VCIX
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  • AhriakinAhriakin SupremeNetworkOverlord Member Posts: 1,799 ■■■■■■■■□□
    Our dept. has a CCIE minimum mandate, exceptions are made if candidates can prove they have equivalent experience/talent/knowledge but I can tell you I wouldn't look twice at a resume that had CCIE written and nothing else before it. It screams book knowledge with no experience. Ask those 3 again if they skipped ahead, I'm pretty sure they will say no. It's easy to say something like this in hindsight when the realities of doing it this way don't affect you.
    Besides the CCIE written exams are very different from the intermediaries. Yes they're a bit tougher but for most tracks they are also less real world relevant. They test areas that are often completely unimportant for the actual work you would be doing at that level.
    We responded to the Year 2000 issue with "Y2K" solutions...isn't this the kind of thinking that got us into trouble in the first place?
  • Ryan82Ryan82 Member Posts: 428
    As Dr. Phil once said to a misfit teenage girl on his show "there is so much that you don't know, that you don't even know what you don't know". icon_lol.gif

    Follow the advice given by the other posters and work your way up the ladder. You have your CCNA, next I would read Network Warrior and TCP/IP Illustrated Vol. 1. Try to get a NOC position or another entry level networking position to build some experience. You will find that things do not always work as nicely as the books will have you believe and their is so much to learn that you will never find in a book or certification track. It is battling these scenarios in a production environment that make you a real engineer. The certs just complement this experience.

    Good luck in your journey
  • pumbaa_gpumbaa_g Member Posts: 353
    I am not as well qualified as most of you guys but I do agree, recently I did come across a guy fresh out of college without an iota of experience giving the CCIE Security. That just felt wrong, I mean with no practical experience you are setting yourself up for disaster.

    The foundations you will build will help later, as they say before you start running you need to learn how to walk :)
    [h=1]“An expert is one who knows more and more about less and less until he knows absolutely everything about nothing.” [/h]
  • itdaddyitdaddy Senior Member Member Posts: 2,089 ■■■■□□□□□□
    blood sweat and lots of tears work hard. Pray and get that number! God bless to all.
  • Legacy UserLegacy User Unregistered / Not Logged In Posts: 0 ■□□□□□□□□□
    Whoever gives a green tech with a CCIE RS the head architect job should resign lol. With that said I wouldn't be surprised if that green tech would be brought on as a junior for a short term project based support role and to learn on the job but expect definitely expect CCNA level pay though. I've seen odder things..
  • NOC-NinjaNOC-Ninja Member Posts: 1,403
    because cisco loves to collect that 2k test cost. lol
  • IristheangelIristheangel CCIEx2 (Sec + DC), CCNP RS, CCNA V/S/R/DC, CISSP, CEH, MCSE 2003, A+/L+/N+/S+, and a lot more from m Pasadena, CAMod Posts: 4,133 Mod
    hahahah man, this was 5 years ago? I was so so so naive. Since then, I've met so many fake dumper CCIEs. Sigh... Past Iris, meet future Iris. Future Iris is going to smack some sense in you. k. thx. bai.
    BS, MS, and CCIE #50931
    Blog: www.network-node.com
  • ErtazErtaz Member Posts: 934 ■■■■■□□□□□
    hahahah man, this was 5 years ago? I was so so so naive. Since then, I've met so many fake dumper CCIEs. Sigh... Past Iris, meet future Iris. Future Iris is going to smack some sense in you. k. thx. bai.

    This sentiment deserves it's own thread. If you would have told my younger self that I would go from "IT Outlaw/Configuration Cowboy" to "IT Sheriff/Compliance Whisperer" I would have horse laughed you out of the room. Times change and, if we're lucky, we use the experience to become enlightened without being bitter.
  • SlowhandSlowhand MCSE: Cloud Platform and Infrastructure, MCSA: Windows Server 2003/2012/2016, CCNA Routing & Switchi Bay Area, CaliforniaMod Posts: 5,161 Mod
    Oh, there's always a way to ****, lie, or steal. It's up to us to be vigilant and stay on the path of the righteous. . . and get medieval on the wicked, wicked dumpers. icon_wink.gif

    Also, I'm kind of surprised no one mentioned to the OP that the reason behind there being no formal prerequisite for the CCIE is historical: it used to be the only credential available from Cisco. It wasn't until a few years later they'd start offering Associate an Professional level certs as stepping-stones but kept the non-requisite for the top-level cert intact.

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  • IristheangelIristheangel CCIEx2 (Sec + DC), CCNP RS, CCNA V/S/R/DC, CISSP, CEH, MCSE 2003, A+/L+/N+/S+, and a lot more from m Pasadena, CAMod Posts: 4,133 Mod
    Ertaz wrote: »
    This sentiment deserves it's own thread. If you would have told my younger self that I would go from "IT Outlaw/Configuration Cowboy" to "IT Sheriff/Compliance Whisperer" I would have horse laughed you out of the room. Times change and, if we're lucky, we use the experience to become enlightened without being bitter.

    I'm not too bitter yet. When asked for **** these days, I'm happy to provide them. Make sure they always get a good variety: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bristol_stool_scale

    Ok... Maybe not bitter but definitely sarcastic and sometimes cynical ;)
    BS, MS, and CCIE #50931
    Blog: www.network-node.com
  • IristheangelIristheangel CCIEx2 (Sec + DC), CCNP RS, CCNA V/S/R/DC, CISSP, CEH, MCSE 2003, A+/L+/N+/S+, and a lot more from m Pasadena, CAMod Posts: 4,133 Mod
    Ertaz wrote: »
    This sentiment deserves it's own thread. If you would have told my younger self that I would go from "IT Outlaw/Configuration Cowboy" to "IT Sheriff/Compliance Whisperer" I would have horse laughed you out of the room. Times change and, if we're lucky, we use the experience to become enlightened without being bitter.

    I'm not too bitter yet. When asked for **** these days, I'm happy to provide them. Make sure they always get a good variety: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bristol_stool_scale

    Ok... Maybe not bitter but definitely sarcastic and sometimes cynical ;)
    BS, MS, and CCIE #50931
    Blog: www.network-node.com
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