Considering Systems Administrator positions

For most systems administrator positions, should a CCNA and an MCSA be sufficient, assuming one had a decent amount of experience to go along with them? Or are employers demanding more than this?

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Essendon

They are also looking for MCITP's these days. ITIL is also in demand.

higherho

I had none and got one, but it really depends on the description. You have a CCNA and having that network backend knowledge is extremely helpful. However, if you lack the understanding of servers and need more education on that then I could get the MCSA. If it's a mid level SA position they might want a MSCA bare min. Do you have any experience with Windows or Linux server administration? Having that experience matters more than a certification.

CCNA's typically looked at toward networking jobs were the MCSA's of the world are windows. So the HR departments are going to look for that MCSA more so than the CCNA. However, like I said above it depends on the job description, who you know, and how much experience you have.

And as Essendon mentioned MCITP & ITIL is in huge demand for any position so I would suggest picking it up.

Cat5

higherho wrote: »

Do you have any experience with Windows or Linux server administration? Having that experience matters more than a certification.

CCNA's typically looked at toward networking jobs were the MCSA's of the world are windows. So the HR departments are going to look for that MCSA more so than the CCNA. However, like I said above it depends on the job description, who you know, and how much experience you have.

I can always study and get a certification. If I don't already have the experience, I don't have it. I figure having an MCSA would get me a sysadmin job quicker than not having the cert. I don't have the time or means (I have a wife and kids to support) to start out as an entry-level-assistant-to-the-jr.-sysadmin-helper just to get a modicum of experience that may or may not help me in the long run become a full-blown sysadmin. The best I can do is get the cert and hope an employer will suffice with someone who has the knowledge a cert brings but not the experience.

networker050184

That little experience is going to help you more than the certification. Look at it this way, spend you time studying for a certification or spend your time working and getting paid while you rack up some kind of experience. You could even study for the exam while working! Either way the certification will mean little to nothing without any kind of experience.

Cat5

networker050184 wrote: »

That little experience is going to help you more than the certification. Look at it this way, spend you time studying for a certification or spend your time working and getting paid while you rack up some kind of experience. You could even study for the exam while working! Either way the certification will mean little to nothing without any kind of experience.

Getting that small bit of experience would also mean taking a huge pay cut from what I'm making now (which is not a lot), which I *CANNOT DO*. If you read my other post, I have a wife and children to support, and we're barely making ends meet now as it is.

I don't think it's necessarily an either/or proposition - either I get the server experience or don't get a sysadmin job, but I understand the odds you're talking about. Sometimes life is a gamble, and I have to determine if I want to study for this, long odds or not. I got my first networking job with only a CCNA and no experience, so I may have to just bide my time and wait with an MCSA+CCNA, too. A city job just opened up where I live for a sysadmin position with city benefits, and it's just down the road instead of a 30-minute drive, which would be really sweet. Too bad I don't already have an MCSA.

higherho

Cat5 wrote: »

Getting that small bit of experience would also mean taking a huge pay cut from what I'm making now (which is not a lot), which I *CANNOT DO*. If you read my other post, I have a wife and children to support, and we're barely making ends meet now as it is.

I don't think it's necessarily an either/or proposition - either I get the server experience or don't get a sysadmin job, but I understand the odds you're talking about. Sometimes life is a gamble, and I have to determine if I want to study for this, long odds or not. I got my first networking job with only a CCNA and no experience, so I may have to just bide my time and wait with an MCSA+CCNA, too.

Out of curiosity, have you talked with your wife to see if you can look for jobs outside of your local area and a possible move? Getting the MCSA will definitely help. I also think you can land a better networking gig to with your current creds.

Akaricloud

You don't really "need" any certifications for a systems administration position, it's more a position that just requires that you know what you're doing.

A MCITP is likely to help but ideally you can just find a jr. systems administration position and get the experience you need. Another option is to volunteer or take a second part time job to get this experience.

Out of curiousity, What is the minimum amount that you need to make to support your current lifestyle?

lsud00d

-OR-

You hit a grandslam at the interview and guarantee them that you have might not have the technical skillset at this time but you learn at an incredibly fast pace paired with unparalleled intuition so taking a chance on you will be rewarding for the individual, the team, and the company/organization

blargoe

Experience trumps all. But if experience is somewhat of a gap, those are the certs I would add. If you have neither, a jr. admin or level 2/3 support position might be the next step as you inch your way into the better experience/relevant certs.

Akaricloud

lsud00d wrote: »

-OR-

You hit a grandslam at the interview and guarantee them that you have might not have the technical skillset at this time but you learn at an incredibly fast pace paired with unparalleled intuition so taking a chance on you will be rewarding for the individual, the team, and the company/organization

That's the route I took personally, problem is getting the interview without anything impressive on paper.

Cat5

I'm in a big enough city that I think I could find a jr. sysadmin position if I needed to. I'm on the burnout road in networking, and I've worked with enough Microsoft folks to know that it's more interesting to me than this.

I currently make about $40k/yr and no benefits (I seem to be a perpetual contractor with no promise of a FT position). Another reason to look elsewhere. My college degree and a buck gets me a cup of coffee.

After so many Cisco tests, testing with Microsoft will be a real breath of fresh air. And a new direction that I sorely need.

ptilsen

CCNA, MCSA, and existing experience in networking? Should be able to find a full-time gig easily enough, and probably for a pay raise. You might need to start in some sort of hybrid or generalist position, but as long as you can convey your knowledge, skills, certifications, and experience well enough on your resume and in interviews, you'd be perfectly qualified for most of those positions.

Don't focus too much on "servers" or anything like that. The reality is you might be a perfect fit for a hybrid position that involves DST, server admin, switch/router/firewall config, dealing with ISPs and vendors, etc. ITIL and documentation skills are also good stuff to look into, but I would say MCSA 2008 (AKA MCITP:SA) is definitely the right goal for you.

onesaint

1. ^^ What PT said. The main point being you need to up sell your knowledge and underpin that with your previous experience. Land a hybrid position and focus on the server side.

2. What city? There are lots of folks here who may be able to point you in the right direction for a new opportunity.

Cat5

I'm in Orlando, Florida.

ChooseLife

As someone who has this combo, I can say that MCSA + CCNA will suffice for many sysadmin positions. It seems to impress HR enough ("Microsoft and Cisco certified.... Great....") to get an interview with a hiring manager where the real evaluation of qualifications and experience takes place.

If you have the experience, don't worry about certifications. My certs have always been lagging behind, and it was never a problem AFAICT - I applied to and was approached about positions that stated "requires certification X" and always got an interview because of equivalent work experience.

Cat5

Now I have a new question after investigating. There's an MCSA both for Windows 2003 and Windows 2012. Should I pursue one over the other? What are employers going to value the most?

lsud00d

You can't get the old MCSA or MCSE's anymore, and MCITP's will be unavailable within a year because MS is shifting again to a new MCSA which is different from the old one. I would say MCITP in the System Administration realm would be most practical because it's relevant technologies and it will be years before any company can roll out 2012 servers enterprise wide.

ptilsen

@lsud00d, the tests for MCITP:SA grant MCSA 2008, and all MCITP:SAs retroactively possess MCSA 2008. Since MCSA is by far more commonly known, we just refer to it as MCSA now. Besides, MCITP:SA is a real mouthful. Also, there's no MCITP in Systems Administration. There's "Server Administrator" (SA) and "Enterprise Administrator" (EA).

lsud00d

Interesting points about the MCSA 2008, apologies for verbage issues (sys/server). I would be interested to see where MCITP:SA gives you MCSA 2008 on Microsofts webiste because what I've seen for MCSA is Server 2012 based. All things aside, saying old MCSA = new MCSA is pandering to HR because MS is rebranding it to set it a part, similar to the failure of MCITP considering non-techs defacto adoption of server 2003 certifications.

ptilsen

Here you are. Notice the tests are the same as the MCITP:SA. We had threads about this a while ago. Everyone with MCITP SA or EA got MCSA 2008 on their MCP transcripts. The situation is pretty maddening, with MS basically screwing over IT professionals with the MCITP line, then deciding to switch "back" to the "new" MCSA/MCSE. Anyway, the reality is MCSA has continued to be a far more common request than MCITP:SA, and now that's set in stone since there's no difference other than what "SA" stands for (which is completely immaterial) and the version of Windows (which, frankly, isn't very important in many cases, either).

To OP, all that matters is that you get those three tests, which will give you both MCITP:SA, MCSA 2008, and two MCTS. You'll want to list both MCITP and MCSA on your resume, just for purposes of resume searches. It's stupid -- four certs that take three tests with only two worth listing and one needed -- but HR and even most IT professionals have no idea what Microsoft is doing, and both MCSA and MCITP are going to get name recognition by the computers that search are resumes and hiring managers.

Devilry

I think you have the right skillset to add the MCSA certs and then be able to get into a sysadmin role. Don't worry about it too much. My only advice would be to not just get the cert, lab like crazy. The labbing will make the test easier (not saying much) and it will help you with the competence levels when you slide into that role.

Cat5

Devilry wrote: »

I think you have the right skillset to add the MCSA certs and then be able to get into a sysadmin role. Don't worry about it too much. My only advice would be to not just get the cert, lab like crazy. The labbing will make the test easier (not saying much) and it will help you with the competence levels when you slide into that role.

What would you say is essential lab equipment for an MCSA lab?

There are four tests for the MCSA - l already have a Security+ (which counts as an elective); I was going to take the test for Windows 7, then the two mandatory Server tests, and I should have the cert.

Does one have to have actual servers in a home lab to pass the server tests, btw?

ptilsen

CAT5, I've been referring to MCSA 2008, not 2003. Granted, you can still take 2003, and if you think you can get it done I won't discourage you, but I was really indicating at 2008. The 2008 MCSA will get you upgrade paths to the new MCSEs and other 2012-era tests. Of course, you can also upgrade MCSA 2003 to 2xMCTS (70-64

and then take one test for MCSA 2008 (70-646), but it doesn't really save any time compared to just taking all three MCSA 2008 tests.

Anyway, either path will work fine. I personally like going straight for 2008 a bit more, but if you have the drive and the time, go ahead and get 2003, then newer tests later.

Cat5

ptilsen wrote: »

CAT5, I've been referring to MCSA 2008, not 2003. Granted, you can still take 2003, and if you think you can get it done I won't discourage you, but I was really indicating at 2008. The 2008 MCSA will get you upgrade paths to the new MCSEs and other 2012-era tests. Of course, you can also upgrade MCSA 2003 to 2xMCTS (70-64 and then take one test for MCSA 2008 (70-646), but it doesn't really save any time compared to just taking all three MCSA 2008 tests.

Anyway, either path will work fine. I personally like going straight for 2008 a bit more, but if you have the drive and the time, go ahead and get 2003, then newer tests later.

I can't find the info online of the differences in what tests to take between the 2003 and the 2008. Is there a link someone could provide? I know four have to be taken for the 2003. Thanks.