CCNP really worth it for me - 2+ years of experience.

petedude

Roguetadhg wrote: »

Are braindumps really that brilliant?

I wouldn't call them "brilliant", but there are plenty of horror stories regarding amazingly close brain **** out there. Close or not, it's still unethical and defeats the purpose of the certification program.

lordy

I am kind of in the same boat with you, OP.

I got my first CCNA in 2005 and a fresh one in 2010. It's now time to recertify and I am going towards CCNP because it just doesn't make sense to me to do the same material, and stall at the same level, for the third time.

Once I have my CCNP I will, of course, put it on my resume. But anyone with some technical understanding will see that I have been focused on Systems and Security with CCNP just being a bonus. And that will be how I sell it. You get a Systems and Security expert and we will put a CCNP on top for the person hiring now! Don't wait! Lines are open! Call 1-800-HIREMENOW.

Roguetadhg

Poor choice of words, I've edited my post and deleted "Brilliant".

DarthVader

I totally agree with Iris,
Certifications are nice but without the experience to go with it, it's a little hollow. If you really like networking I would suggest finding a position (probably entry level) and get lots of hands on experience.
I have my CCNP and use it every single day. I can tell you though unless you have several years of consistant network engineering experience I would hold off for a little while. This is serious networking cert.

Really, try to get another position or ask the newtork people in your organization if you can cross train in thier domain?

NOC-Ninja

9 out of 10, the guy that will interview you is a old senior network engineer that only have a CCNA. However, he has a great knowledge of CCNP. If you cant find a network entry level job and you have a CCNP then red flags are all over your resume.

The interviewer will look for a CCNA with experience. Believe it or not, there are a ton of them out there.
Outcome 1: They toss your resume
Outcome 2: They will interview you and you will get destroyed.

Now, you might think, ahhh Ill get CCNP. Forget these guys!

Go ahead. Go get it. Although, remember me when you passed and you couldnt find a entry level networking job or you get destroyed in an interview.

Goodluck.

Roguetadhg

There's isn't anyone down here. I'm the only one in the company's IT department in this building - or south of the Mason-Dixie line. I'm flying solo with my boss(s) sending me messages like "Papa bear to Goldielocks...the porrage is in the bowl". It's part of the political disputes- the distance of this branches.

That said, I've already asked for networking projects. But there's not much of the way of networking here besides what I've already listed. Punching down outlets that don't work, finding barracuda broken. - I'm already looking for an ISP job.

Concerned Water

I know a CCNP with no experience that got a job. He had to fight for it, but when you think about it, you have to fight for any job you go for. I would go for what I believe. I'm an IT with no network experience and I'm going for NP. Truth be told, people are always going to have something to say, but you won't know in less you take a chance.

higherho

Knowledge gets you a job, that knowledge does not mysteriously change because you need experience. Everything you learned translates to the real world, you just have to know how to apply it. Experience is like a credit score, the higher the score the better chance a lender will give you more money. The more experience you have the better chance you will get more money from your employer.

Excellent1

Iristheangel wrote: »

The Bison software...

For some reason, this made me literally lol. Not sure why, but I appreciate it...

That said, I am in the same boat as the OP. I am pursuing my NP, and I don't care what anyone else thinks. I don't have to tell anyone that I even have it, but I LOVE networking. I get excited talking about route redistribution and I am completely unashamed by that fact. I don't know everything, and I likely never will, but I know this: letting other people's perception of my abilities inhibit my development of said abilities is absurd. Those who say experience is king are definitely correct. However, those who make a distinction between a certification and experience are equally absurd. Unless you are cheating, the process of legitimately acquiring a certification IS experience. Is it as much experience as having a job that uses that information? No, but it is still experience for all of that.

As long as you have the drive to keep that information in mind after the test is over (i.e., you DO actually use the information whether for fun, ongoing education, to pay the bills, etc.), there is no downside to acquiring the certification.

I just read a post from a guy who showed how to use the hex values in debugs to find the mismatched AS and/or K values of an EIGRP peer that won't form a neighborship. I don't need 10 years of experience in networking to find that extremely cool and worth learning. Anyway, as with so many other things, you have to evaluate your abilities, goals, and resources, and take the path that makes the most sense for your situation. Good luck.

Legacy User

@dr kat lol well played

Now to the OP I have a story not exactly related to i.t. but about sacrifice and working to achieve your dream. My older brother tried to get a position as a clinical researcher he had some certification and background in the medical field but not for that exact position. All the jobs looks from a min of 3 years of experience. He was turned down interview after interview until he got desperate but aggressive.

He decided to offer his services for free so the next 2 interviews he offered to work for free for 1year if they like him to hire him. He figure if anything he can use the internship as a reference if they didnt hire him. Surely enough the one place tried him out and hired him but under a different title doing the same work after 1 year unpaid he was paid $35/hr.

He then made friends with some high up manager in the field and after that year he applied for a clinical researcher position asking for 3 years of experience. End result with 1 year internship, 1 year paid and with a recommendation from that manager he was hired for that job paying $95k/yr work from home he flies everywhere. He moved from jersey to miami beach 10 min from the beach in some high rise.

Moral of the story if you want something bad enough you have to go out and get it. If you feel the ccnp will give you a leg up do it. Whats the worst that will happen if it helps great if doesnt well try a different approach take it off the resume and keep plugging away. You won't know what could be unless you take that risk. Think about it this way you pay your bills noone else does so do what you have too. Someone once told me you cant wait for opportunities you have to make your own.

m3zilla

NOC-Ninja wrote: »

Go ahead. Go get it. Although, remember me when you passed and you couldnt find a entry level networking job or you get destroyed in an interview.

Why does having a CCNP mean he'll get destroyed in an interview?

xbuzz

...because obviously, by the logic in this thread, someone without any experience, the further they go up in the cisco ladder, the less knowledge they have of what they have studied. Someone who has done CCIE rs without experience, isn't even expected to remember their own name, for example.

NetworkVeteran

I've been thinking that going through the CCNP studies, for the most part isn't going to help. I'd really like to get a career using my knowledge. At the very least, something so I can get in the thick of things. It excites me.

I agree. If your job doesn't require configuring or troubleshooting network protocols, a CCNP isn't going to do much for you. You have a CCNA! The next step is to find a job where you can use it.

mguy

NOC-Ninja wrote: »

9 out of 10, the guy that will interview you is a old senior network engineer that only have a CCNA. However, he has a great knowledge of CCNP. If you cant find a network entry level job and you have a CCNP then red flags are all over your resume.

The interviewer will look for a CCNA with experience. Believe it or not, there are a ton of them out there.
Outcome 1: They toss your resume
Outcome 2: They will interview you and you will get destroyed.

Now, you might think, ahhh Ill get CCNP. Forget these guys!

Go ahead. Go get it. Although, remember me when you passed and you couldnt find a entry level networking job or you get destroyed in an interview.

Goodluck.

Funny I'm currently reading your blog for motivation, and tad bit disappointed to hear this from you. Didn't you post that you made a career change from software testing engineer (bug tester), and got laid-off, then studied for CCNA then got hired. These things got you to started studying for CCIE right?

mguy

NOC-Ninja wrote: »

9 out of 10, the guy that will interview you is a old senior network engineer that only have a CCNA. However, he has a great knowledge of CCNP. If you cant find a network entry level job and you have a CCNP then red flags are all over your resume.

The interviewer will look for a CCNA with experience. Believe it or not, there are a ton of them out there.
Outcome 1: They toss your resume
Outcome 2: They will interview you and you will get destroyed.

Now, you might think, ahhh Ill get CCNP. Forget these guys!

Go ahead. Go get it. Although, remember me when you passed and you couldnt find a entry level networking job or you get destroyed in an interview.

Goodluck.

Or are you putting them down as quoted in your blog, "I promise you this. The guy you put down will probably end up being on top one day. You’ll only motivate them to be better, but for the wrong reasons."

drkat

OP,

I'm going to be honest with you and whoever doesnt like it well.. that's their problem. I dont have a fancy blog or tons of certifications, as a matter of fact I only have the 2 certs I do have because my employer forked up the cash and said "get these" - what I do have is experience, almost 10 years of it in IT and I'd like to consider myself a down to earth kind of guy when it comes to this stuff.

First off, you have a CCNA? That's fantastic! -, the problem here is when you attempt to market yourself. The applying for the jobs that want a CCNP and not having the relevant experience, or the jobs not mentioning CCNP and you're applying showing you have a CCNP and well that may throw up a flag.

Whichever the case may be! Dont question your own ability - I've doubled my salary in the past 2 years, not by certifications but by hard work and dedication to what I believed I was good at. Nobody on a forum in the "cloud" will be able to honestly tell you anything about your own situation - we can take advice and ask questions, but in the end it is up to us to decide.

A lot of times people get really hung up on certifications (myself included) - or you have folks who collect them... maybe they're like Pet Rocks to these folks? who knows.. but what I'm trying to get at is this: You have a CCNA, you have experience, now continue to gain experience, and I dont mean just come in and do the bare minimum on your job, but go beyond it, find out the root causes to the problems, if you dont know why, ask - I've been a firm believer in "If you dont know how it works, you wont know why it doesnt." - Once you're feeling super comfortable with your skillset and you're gaining EXPERIENCE, remember that word.. my first certs were this year and I've never had an issue getting a position that I really wanted, because I could show the folks I can do the job.. You need to show people you can do the job.. not just read about it, but be about it.

You dont have to know everything and you dont have to remember everything in the book.. if you want to study for your CCNP but hold off on taking the exam, or even omitting it from your resume while applying to entry level jobs - that's fine too... You can reveal it later after your prove yourself on the job. I mean honestly, half the employers dont care about certs - they're merely for you to get past HR.

I sincerely recommend that you take some time to gain the needed experience in order to be successful - You will learn a lot about what you want to do and what you dont want to do. You might not even like the NP type of job, who knows.. Just dont go chasing certifications, they arent the end all to IT and wont guarantee you anything.

I wish you the best of luck and dont let ANYONE put your aspirations to the side.

MAC_Addy

This thread is a little intense. Sheesh.

Now, I currently only have my CCENT, but I do work a lot with Cisco equipment and had future goals of going onto the CCNP, or maybe even higher. My job right now I don't configure too much, but I'm always helping out whenever I can (not primarily in the networking dept). I've just been handed the role of setting up new ASA's for remote offices. Now I'm second guessing myself whether or not I should go for NP.

NetworkVeteran

Mac_Addy wrote:

Now I'm second guessing myself whether or not I should go for NP.

Well, at least going for CCNA is a no-brainer.

NOC-Ninja

mguy wrote: »

Funny I'm currently reading your blog for motivation, and tad bit disappointed to hear this from you. Didn't you post that you made a career change from software testing engineer (bug tester), and got laid-off, then studied for CCNA then got hired. These things got you to started studying for CCIE right?

I guess you didn't read my post thoroughly. I'm not hating the guy. Im giving him advice, real world advice. The difference is I got a full time enterprise network job after my CCNA.

My point is, he needs to find an entry level full time networking job first since he has a CCNA. Getting a CCNP without a full time network job will only hurt him. I'm not the only one that have said this.

If you will search, you will find gurus here that are great engineers for production/enterprise/mid size network that posts the same advice again and again. From mike, turgon and probably networker050184. If mike and turgon are still here then they would jump into this asap. lol

I've never met a manager or a Sr network engineer that will trust a guy with a CCNP or CCIE without experience on touching a production network.

NOC-Ninja

mguy wrote: »

Or are you putting them down as quoted in your blog, "I promise you this. The guy you put down will probably end up being on top one day. You’ll only motivate them to be better, but for the wrong reasons."

Like I said before, Im not putting him down. Im telling him what I've seen again and again. That is why I told him go ahead and do it, so he can experience it for himself.

Again, I've never met a manager or a Sr network engineer that will trust a guy with a CCNP or CCIE without experience on touching a production network.

ChooseLife

xbuzz wrote: »

So you are recruiting 2 people with absolutely zero experience. Both have equal aptitude and passion for the role. One has CCNA and the other has CCNP and both in a technical interview perform perfect on both their areas of knowledge. You're saying you would hire the person with the CCNA?

I would be very cautious about the person with CCNP and zero experience, and try to figure out what's the story there. I also believe one cannot have perfect CCNP level knowledge without any work experience, so this sounds like a hypothetical case (as networker pointed out)

MAC_Addy

NetworkVeteran wrote: »

Well, at least going for CCNA is a no-brainer.

Indeed!

NOC-Ninja wrote: »

If mike and turgon are still here then they would jump into this asap. lol

No kidding! Speaking of which - where are they these days?

unclerico

If I'm interviewing a candidate that has a professional level certification with no experience it throws up a red flag. Now, the red flag isn't necessarily an automatic disqualifier, but it will make me take note of your lack of experience. The tone of the interview changes from easy going to grilling. Why?? Because all of your knowledge is from a book, not from experiences in the field. If you are interviewing for an engineer role then I need to make sure that when the sh** hits the fan that you will know what to do and not freeze up or say "i don't know, i didn't learn that in my book". When you reach the professional/expert level you are expected to play the role of mentor/teacher and not the student. I am going to visit Narbik for his CCIE training the week of 7/23; do you think I'd want to go learn from him if he was "only" a CCNP?? What can he teach me?? Maybe I'm a snob when it comes to this stuff. Maybe I've seen soooo many paper tigers in my day that I am cynical as hell. I don't know, but if your practical experience does not match up with the certifications that you hold then I have issues. Look at the way the CISSP or PMP certs work; you don't even get considered for them unless you have x amount of realworld, applicable experience. IMHO, that's the way it should be.

techdudehere

CCNP with no experience would be silly, but if you want to increase your knowledge you have to start somewhere. Taking a test does not teach you anything, but the test motivates some people to read the books and do the training which provides some framework and background information. That might give someone enough knowledge to understand conversations around the office, do some basic tasks, or just pick up the basics of a new position a little faster. These days you need someone who can learn fast, if there's a toss up between two candidates a certification could decide. More often it happens like this though, I hear about X guy getting certified in Y, we talk shop and I find some stuff he can assist with if his manager lets him, over time he takes on a little more and comes to me with stuff partially diagnosed, before long a position opens up and well the guy is 3/4 of the way trained so guess who gets the position?

NOC-Ninja

MAC_Addy wrote: »

Indeed!

No kidding! Speaking of which - where are they these days?

Yup, I guess it needs to go through them gurus so guys here dont get offended.
I dont know. Mike just disappeared out of nowhere. I dont know the story behind Turgon. Maybe they both passed CCIE?

m3zilla

I don't understand why everyone say CCNP with no experience is bad. Sure, a CCNP isn't going to help you get the job if you have no experience, but the knowledge gained from the CCNP will surely help.

You guys make it sound like you shouldn't continue learning until you have real world experience. If a CCNA with no experience wants to go deeper into routing/switching, why is that a bad thing? Or is it only bad if they decide to get a CCNP while they're at it?

mguy

NOC-Ninja wrote: »

I guess you didn't read my post thoroughly. I'm not hating the guy. Im giving him advice, real world advice. The difference is I got a full time enterprise network job after my CCNA.

My point is, he needs to find an entry level full time networking job first since he has a CCNA. Getting a CCNP without a full time network job will only hurt him. I'm not the only one that have said this.

If you will search, you will find gurus here that are great engineers for production/enterprise/mid size network that posts the same advice again and again. From mike, turgon and probably networker050184. If mike and turgon are still here then they would jump into this asap. lol

I've never met a manager or a Sr network engineer that will trust a guy with a CCNP or CCIE without experience on touching a production network.

So from someone who got a networking job without direct networking experience and just a CCNA you are saying his CCNP will actually hurt him?

ok. i can live with that. hear that guys? yey!

As long as you can get a networking job without experience and just a CCNA, that's something positive to look forward to for a lot of people here.

Great blog btw! I wish you all the best.

xbuzz

Maybe for someone with no experience, straight after they get the CCNP, they should just go for the CCIE, so that they don't get destroyed in those interviews! ;p

Somnipotent

I got my my first networking gig (still at that gig btw) with just a CCENT and a CCNA in progress. I completed CCNA and eventually got my CCNP. It's been just under two years now. I'm actively in the role which my certification validates. Needless to say, I still don't know half as much as I should, though I can say I know enough to be dangerous and I'm learning new things everyday. The CCNP is just a certification. What you know really shows in your everyday interactions on the job. During an interview, you can tell the dumpers from the true NPs. As long as you know your stuff AND you have an idea of how to handle the situation as they come to you, you shouldn't have any issues.

I don't know any employer you expects you to know everything. I work with a few CCIEs who will tell you straight up they don't know everything. You should expect, though, to know what you should at your level of expertise. It all comes down to if you don't shoot for the stars and land on the moon, you end up in the toilet. Just go for your NP, learn your stuff, know it, and that dream job will come.

kanecain

This tread makes me happy and makes me lose all hope in my profession all at the same time.