CCNP really worth it for me - 2+ years of experience.

Forsaken_GA

Somnipotent wrote: »

I don't know any employer you expects you to know everything. I work with a few CCIEs who will tell you straight up they don't know everything.

I'm always amused at how people think CCIE's are network gods who know everything. I get a good degree of it just from having passed the Written. The CCIE will not make you a network god, and I wouldn't expect and CCIE or JNCIE or equivalent to know everything. What it does tell me is that the person is capable of learning and applying advanced topics, so if I ask a CCIE to do something and they don't know how to do it, I have confidence that they'll be able to figure it out, I just have to build some lead time into my expectations.

Now, that would be an ideal world. Not yet a CCIE, but I'm the most advanced network geek on my team, and when folks get into the weeds, I get called in and I'm expected to figure it out real quick like. I haven't spent a second studying for a single Juniper exam, but I'm relatively certain that what I've had to learn on the fly at work would be enough for me to pass the JNCIA, and in the opinion of others who have taken the exams, the JNCIS as well. This is why I'm a valuable employee - not because of the alphabet soup of certs on my resume, because of my ability to rapidly acquire knowledge, and assimilate it into my workflow. The certs are due to the effect of my capability, not the cause of it.

If you have the ability, go get the certs, they won't hurt you. Make sure that ability shines through in an interview, and you'll have employers drooling over you.

Forsaken_GA

NOC-Ninja wrote: »

My point is, he needs to find an entry level full time networking job first since he has a CCNA. Getting a CCNP without a full time network job will only hurt him. I'm not the only one that have said this.

I don't quite agree with this. I wouldn't say it would hurt. The first thing it would do is make me suspicious of dumping, but I'd be able to figure that out in the interview. If the person seems to legitimately have the head knowledge, and has just lacked for opportunity, I'm actually pretty ok with that, but the person has demonstrated the ability to learn, and can hold an intelligent conversation on the subject matter.

I've never met a manager or a Sr network engineer that will trust a guy with a CCNP or CCIE without experience on touching a production network.

Not out of the gate. I'd trust them with some very basic and extremely limited effect tasks first, and likely have them paired with a babysitter to ride herd on them, and this would likely last out the probationary period. If they managed to survive that without making any major mistakes, my trust issues would start evaporating.

Now, with that being said, I *would* have to see an incredible amount of potential in a candidate to give them that opportunity. For the vast majority of folks out there, the advice in this thread is perfectly sound. Start with entry level to get your feet wet, and move on from there.

Excellent1

I think the interesting thing about this thread is that everyone is, for the most part, correct in their varying opinions. It's a matter of degrees and subtleties that really matter in these kinds of situations. I have a decent lab that I've been running labs on for the NP that have absolutely given me experience that can do nothing but help me. Does that take the place of a production environment and all the various real-world scenarios that can and will crop up? Obviously not. However, no one can say (if they are sane) that the experience gained in legitimately acquiring the NP is somehow hurtful.

Those urging people to stay away from the NP until they have more experience are in essence trying to advise people not to bill themselves as having a professional level skillset when that is clearly not actually the case. That is good advice, in my opinion. That said, it's really no different than anything else regarding your background, education, experience, etc, when you tailor your resume for a given job. There is nothing saying you have to put down that you have the CCNP on your resume for a position. You could very easily (and truthfully) claim CCNA status, then impress the interviewer with your superior understanding, given the fact that you have managed their expectations in your favor. It's similar to people who have Master's degrees only claiming Bachelor's in order to not be ruled out as overqualified: you tailor your resume for the position you're applying for.

In the end, pursuing and gaining knowledge related to the field you are intersted in, whether that comes through the study process of a certification, or in something you are actually employed to do, the end result is the same: experience. There are people I know with multiple years of "experience" who have done nothing but take up a slot in the IT department. The time they've spent on the job has been wasted because they haven't bothered applying themselves and improving. Conversely, I know people that are not yet employed in the field that have impressive skills because they are passionate and motivated. My point is that the quality of one's experience, whether from certification studies or real world employment, is dependent on the individual.

So, I think we're all trying to say the same things, but we're approaching it from different angles. The good thing about it is that as we've seen in this very thread: multiple approaches can and will work. The key is persistence. And, because I've already typed a small novel, I'll toss in Coolidge's quote again because it applies here as much as anything else said in this thread:

"Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent."

Forsaken_GA

Excellent1 wrote: »

I think the interesting thing about this thread is that everyone is, for the most part, correct in their varying opinions. It's a matter of degrees and subtleties that really matter in these kinds of situations. I have a decent lab that I've been running labs on for the NP that have absolutely given me experience that can do nothing but help me. Does that take the place of a production environment and all the various real-world scenarios that can and will crop up? Obviously not. However, no one can say (if they are sane) that the experience gained in legitimately acquiring the NP is somehow hurtful.

I suppose that depends on your lab setup My own, lets just say I've been able to seriously impress with it, and I take the diagrams and documentation for my home lab with me to interviews, because I mimic a full enterprise setup on the network side and on the server/application side. From an operations standpoint, the only difference between my lab and a potential employers live network is scale. I've lost track of how many issues I've been able to immediately resolve in production because I've seen them before in my lab, especially on the server side. Most folks won't go to those lengths for their self-study though. When I get a candidate talking to me about their home lab, I take interest, and see to what lengths they've gone. If someones gone to the trouble to setup multiple sites and setup an MPLS core in their home environment (and actually run it like that, not build it then tear it down) I'm a whole lot more impressed than a CCNA who setup a couple routers and configured OSPF. The former person likely has some instinctual insight into operational realities and I'd love to give them a chance. The latter is going to have to work a little harder to impress me.

I guess the moral of the story here is that if you're going to bring up lab experience in an interview, try to make it as un-vanilla as possible, it'll be to your benefit.

Legacy User

Forsaken_GA wrote: »

If someones gone to the trouble to setup multiple sites and setup an MPLS core in their home environment (and actually run it like that, not build it then tear it down) I'm a whole lot more impressed than a CCNA who setup a couple routers and configured OSPF.

Your right that does sound impressive. You've made great points all through out.

networker050184

It all comes down to opinion and personal preference. The only opinion that matters is the person reading your resume though.

drkat

Yeah, I honestly dont think too many folks build that in their house ... and if they did.. more power to them

Roguetadhg

Thank you for everyone's responses.

I wasn't expecting such a large volume of responses- From both sides: Those trying to get experience but have certifications, and those that have experience to give by the plentiful. The cases both sides have presented were instrumental in my choice to stop studying NP as a certification, but instead study to enjoy the information to gain. I'll go after the Security+ officially, because Im hoping it can lead to a well-roundedness that I can use for benefit myself and my next employment adventure.

I'll be expanding my knowledge to make sure that I don't get shot down when I list the CCNA. I'm hoping that the experience and the length of employment with one company can give me that little edge to make it to the interview room. At which case, I will definitely be better than the rest.

I'll re-through the ICND1/2 now that there's no pressure to take the test, I think I can actually enjoy reading through the material and focus on the theories again. I'll continue read through the CCNP mostly as enjoyment first and educational second.

drkat

Good luck Rogue