CCNA certification/simulation software?

networker050184

Santillana wrote: »

GNS3 is somewhat attractive, but the IOS remains a problem. Is there in fact any way of actually buying an IOS that would work, not from the uninterested jerks at Cisco but from Juniper/somebody else?

Nope, the only people that make Cisco IOS are Cisco. You can buy used gear with the IOS on it, pull one from work etc but legally you are only supposed to get the IOS from Cisco and use it on their gear.

Santillana wrote: »

Routersim's and Boson Sim's CCNA-related software products both come at $179 (the market economy seems to be working). Roguetadhg seems to favor Boson Sim out of experience. Has anyone actually experimented with both products? They only work with Windows (bummer!) - can they tend to be sluggish because of the sluggish/mediocre OS they run on?

Personally I wouldn't waste the money on Boson or any other simulator stuff. Just not worth the money for a buggy sim that you can't go off course from what they have programmed for you. The real learning for me always comes from digging and debuging. For a lab I'd pick up some 2950s and 2600s or use GNS3 for the routing piece.

Roguetadhg

Most people recommend buying switches, first. The running GNS3 to provide the routers. As you can scale the amount of routers cheaply - using just a single IOS image that it accepts. What i'm building is a lab that'll last through Voice/Security/Wireless/R+S. Im trying to buy a little as possible, so my options are a bit... out there. It mostly follows the CCIE Build labs, with a few changes (PoE, mostly).

If you click on the banner to the left, for CertificationKits. They have one. Actually there's a thread about Certification Kits, has a listing of websites people have used. eBay is the major site people hunt for equipment. As it's for education use, buying used isn't a real problem so if it goes down, it's not an immediate problem.

This, however, can be a problem. I've seen a few 'tips' over the time I've spent on these forums for buying on eBay:

1) Make sure that you can get switches that have ports that go green. Else, expect it doesn't work. Not every seller will list the terminal output, not every seller will give you a lot of information you need to make informed choices. Atleast you can buy something that works.

2) You risk money by buying a used PoE switch. Forsaken stated one time he doesn't buy used PoEs. I value his experience, but I still went against this and went ahead and purchased my first switch from ebay (PoE).
- PoE is just allowing electrical power (Phones, Wireless,...) to be transmitted over Cat5/6.

3) Try to get information about the IOS version. IOS versions change. Commands, and command syntaxes change over time. I'd try to get the most recent (Which I don't know off-hand what that would be.). Because it's not cheap to upgrade IOS and this, too, is a grey area.
- You can find some switch IOS files, I think the 3550 you can actually buy with the SMI version, and then upgrade it (Free from cisco) to the EMI version.

If you must use a emulator/simulator. Boson provides an all-in-one solution. Labs, Terminal access, even little tips and tricks. But that's it. You can't stray, you can't experiment, you perform show commands and find some commands there. Did I mention you find that they have bugs? So you're fighting the program and you never really know which is which.


I recommend:
You would get more out of a physical lab, if you've never had hands on experience. Nothing can beat seeing blinking lights, and knowing that what you're doing is actually making things work. It's a different feeling. I've had hands on experience while I was in NetAcad, and Simulator/Emulator just doesn't do it. It's one thing to program routers, ping across routers in GNS3. You're thinking "Yeah, it works."

But then you use two crappy machines on a KVM, ping across a network you made work. Configure windows, and bam! You're transferring real files. Honest to goodness cat video files from one crappy machine to the next. Oh! It's on par with Oreo Sonic Blasts from Sonic. I'll never forget that feeling of hold counter-strike games over networks we made. Because at the end of that day I realized that all this theory stuff works. It's not just some moldy old man talking his head off and likes to sniff the white-board markers. Although he comes in looking like Hitler a few times. (All seriousness, great teacher and mentor. So if he reads this, Cliff says thank you.)

Make what you learn real. You're able to connect theory, OSI, for example is a large theory mongolian cluster in ICND1. All those protocols, monograms, sausage pizzas, frames, bits... it's a lot. But then when you sit down and make something work. I mean you can go as far as to put large fans in your room, put the AC to 40 degrees and paint your room white for that authentic server room feeling :P You'll find out that being in that room trying to troubleshoot sucks after a while.

If anyone is really really serious about doing anything with routers and switches. Put the time in, buy a few things, get your hands into it. Open up Wireshark
I'm rambling, and now this thread went on too long. I need to hit the Security book!

NetworkVeteran

Santillana wrote: »

Is there in fact any way of actually buying an IOS that would work, not from the uninterested jerks at Cisco but from Juniper/somebody else?

You can buy used Cisco devices on eBay that have a Cisco IOS on them you could use for GNS3. Some, less scrupulous people, actually just Google IOS and download one.

They only work with Windows (bummer!) - can they tend to be sluggish because of the sluggish/mediocre OS they run on?

Boson Netsim isn't sluggish. It takes 5-10 seconds to load a lab topology, and from that point onwards it's as fast or faster than a real device (specifically, faster on reloads).

As for the sluggishness of your system as a whole, that depends on your system builder. None of my personal systems (any OS) are sluggish. Each OS posts its recommended minimum RAM/CPU and some have higher requirements than others.

spd3432

Roguetadhg wrote: »

3) Try to get information about the IOS version. IOS versions change. Commands, and command syntaxes change over time. I'd try to get the most recent (Which I don't know off-hand what that would be.). Because it's not cheap to upgrade IOS and this, too, is a grey area.
- You can find some switch IOS files, I think the 3550 you can actually buy with the SMI version, and then upgrade it (Free from cisco) to the EMI version.

I see this mentioned in a number of threads. I believe it is possible to download (for free) the EMI version of the software for the switches, the legality of actually upgrading them to the EMI version is something else entirely. In my own lab, I have saved the original IOS that each router and switch had installed when I obtained them. When I eventually start getting selling off / giving away bits and pieces, it will have that same original IOS on it. It may not be the same IOS it had on it when it was shipped by CISCO, but it'll leave me with a clear conscience (and hopefully free of any legal entanglements).

2) You risk money by buying a used PoE switch. Forsaken stated one time he doesn't buy used PoEs. I value his experience, but I still went against this and went ahead and purchased my first switch from ebay (PoE).
- PoE is just allowing electrical power (Phones, Wireless,...) to be transmitted over Cat5/6.

I don't know about buying a used PoE switch, but along those lines and my previous comments, I won't buy an SMI switch on EBay that shows it's being shipped with an EMI IOS on it.

NetworkVeteran

NetworkVeteran wrote:

The only nits I experienced were--(1) the product would be a more efficient tool if they'd identified the 12-16 labs you need to know to pass the exam; (2) Occasionally, maybe 5-10% of the time, they didn't recognize a valid solution; (3) If you delve outside the parameters of those labs, say configuring extra protocols, the simulation will make mistakes.

Networker wrote:

Just not worth the money for a buggy sim that you can't go off course from what they have programmed for you.

You could pay Cisco thousands for access to a classroom where you have a single topology (pod) and are only expected to complete the 10-15 labs they ask you to do.

I don't consider a simulator a bad value that allows you to complete 12-16 core labs, plus another 64 for further exploration at your convenience, that is pretty accurate as long as you complete the lab tasks they ask you to. If you complete all those labs, you'll be a stronger candidate than most CCNAs. If you complete the bare minimum, you'll finish your faster than other methods.

I mostly use GNS3 now, but I still fire up Boson from time to time, for its 3550s/2950s.

Which is not to say real equipment, Cisco Academy, and GNS3 don't have their perks as well. There are many paths that lead to the same destination.

astrogeek

At the very least make sure you can console into a switch or router before getting hired. When I got hired I barely touched real equipment in my CCNA Academy class because we mostly only used Packet Tracer, or if we did use equipment we were logging in through a web interface. You have no idea how stupid I felt when my boss asked me to console into a switch to do some basic configuration and I had to ask him "How do I console into this switch?" (dee dee dee)

I still laugh about it today....but seriously, I looked like a total idiot lol