Question: To those with loads of certs in their profile...

harrell

Hello again. To those of you who have loads of certifications in your profile, I'm curious to know what kind of professional position do you have? Are you the lead architect at your firm, are you a professional IT consultant, do you own your own business?... etc.

I must say, after glancing at a few profiles (Iristheangel, JDMurray, to name a few), I'd like to know what type of work you do on a daily basis and has getting all of these certifications been worth it?

Not to get too personal, but I'd have to assume that you make great money? or is it more of a job security thing that's more beneficial by having these certs?

To any of you all who have multiple certs, please do respond. As for me and my few certs, I make really great money for my age and experience (and I only have 4 certs!). I must also say that I have been blessed with the opportunities I've been afforded. The other advantage I have is that I live in the Washington, DC area where jobs are abundant. But, I'm curious as to how I would compare in those in smaller markets.

thanks

mrvl13

I also have multiple CERTS, i bought a pack yesterday, the new cinnamon ones taste great and really freshen your breath. .....just kidding

I have the same certs as you do plus one other, and also live in the DC/MD/VA area. the jobs are abundant for those who know how to do the job. certs are only an indication that you studied and past the test.

i have been in this field for 11 years and the most Technical guys never had any certs....go figure!

harrell

mrvl13 wrote: »

I also have multiple CERTS, i bought a pack yesterday, the new cinnamon ones taste great and really freshen your breath. .....just kidding

I have the same certs as you do plus one other, and also live in the DC/MD/VA area. the jobs are abundant for those who know how to do the job. certs are only an indication that you studied and past the test.

i have been in this field for 11 years and the most Technical guys never had any certs....go figure!

the cinnamon flavor is the best!

you made a HUGE point. I've been in IT for about 9 years and its true!... the guys with the most experience at the jobs i've worked at, have almost NO certifications! That has always puzzled me and i really questioned if getting the certs that i have was worth it!

One thing that I use to justify my certifications is: Most of those guys have been in 'the game' for a LONG time and have the experience to compensate. As for the newbies straight out of school, it's necessary to get certs in order to validate the qualification for the job.

just my thoughts...

rwmidl

I'm the Sr. Windows Admin for the project I'm working on.

NetworkVeteran

harrell wrote: »

I make really great money for my age and experience (and I only have 4 certs!).

I make good money for my age and experience.. so do my team mates who have CCIEs.. but I don't think any of us have more than one useful certification per person.

(That's not to say I wouldn't like to have two or three!)

"harrell wrote:

Most of those guys have been in 'the game' for a LONG time and have the experience to compensate.

The folks at the top of their game often have both experience and certifications.

JDMurray

Certifications can help get your foot in the door for the first-round of a job interview. As you walk in to that interview, you leave all of that paper behind and dazzle the interviewers only with what you can say and do to help the hiring manager and the business.

Certs can open doors to find potential customers too. Some people use an arm-length of certs as self-promotion to sell their services or products. Once again, as the salesman steps into the first meeting with a potential customer, all of that paper is left behind as the salesman is only judged for what s/he can really do for the customer.

Certs can help you start and maintain a career, but often they are only just part of the first step of what you are really trying to achieve.

EV42TMAN

I have a lot of certifications just because when i first started doing them my employer gave me a $300 per exam bonus. That died when the economy crashed, but i like learning about new things and improving my skill sets. some of the people you mentioned went to WGU where certifications are a part of the degree program. I just started at WGU and transferred in most of the required certs but, if i didn't have to do project+, MTA web development, and CIW certs for the degree i would never touch them, unless I was financially encouraged to do so. Every certification i have listed on the side i decided to do because i wanted to learn about it and explore new career paths and was before i started at WGU.

drkat

I only have 3 Certs and they're all network related. I'm just a Network Engineer

MickQ

Consultant, own business, and network admin.

al3kt.R***

The thread topic from my point of view goes a bit like "certs are overestimated" in terms of real skills, but as JDMurray has described, it's not ONLY about the real skills that IT workers possess one can "sell", it's also a matter of the marketing campaign one depends on to earn his living. Certs as paper are such a campaign, offer a good first impression to other parties, excite the curiosity just like a nice book cover or an expensive costume, the rest is up to the "inside" i.e. "can you DO the job???" It was just a matter of time for certs to become pretty much like status symbols, both void and precious, for the industry. But I feel we should NEVER underestimate their value, certs as knowledge+training gained in combination can make up a professional profile with extremely good odds for win-win scenarios for both employer and cert-holder in terms of "skills bought" and "money earned", assuming the cert-holder succeeds in maintaining his aquired skills in the long-term.

Btw I am a N/W Security Engineer, been in the IT field for 8y+, last 3 of them also as a freelancer consultant, and while living quite satisfactorily, I must admit feeling somewhat underpaid compared to NA or Northern Europe collaborators in the same field of expertise (even if some of them have fewer "titles to showcase"), but at the same time heavily overpaid compared to many other geographic regions of our World, regardless of the occupation (scary global-economy "gears" ).

Anyway, to wrap it up, cert-holding has surely benefited my home economics (up until now) and definitely broadened my career prospects and sharpened my professional skills, so I think I'll keep the process running for as long as it is rewarding (both in terms of monetary return and pro experience gained).

Iristheangel

As of the moment, my official title is "Network Engineer" and I love it. I've been in the IT field for about 5 years now and I would say I make a good living. I'm not making anywhere in the ballpark of what the network architect who works as a consultant next to me. He makes a varying 300-500K/year since he incorporated himself and consults directly for several different major companies. He is all I want to be. Droool. I would say that my certifications are from a combination of mistakes, necessity, and wise choices.

I earned my CompTIA certifications when I was just starting and I remember how ridiculously proud I was when I got that certificate that said "Certificed IT Technician." I walked around my job showing it off and feeling so proud of myself. Sigh... I wish I could smack 25 year old me. I honestly wish I didn't waste the time or money on most of them since I had a lot of the core knowledge already but I just didn't understand the ROI on those certifications. I was young and naive!

I went through my Microsoft certifications before applying for a service desk job but through a combination of luck, social skills, and interviewing well, I instead got a position on a security team and never really applied most of that MCSE knowledge so that faded away. It was fun to learn and I can still set up DHCP, AD, DNS, replication, etc but if you asked me to implement it over a large enterprise or combined them with a bunch of different systems, server OSes, etc, I probably would struggle a little more in getting everything working correctly. Since I didn't really apply most of that knowledge professionally either, I consider it a useless certification ROI-wise to me (not to everyone else necessarily). I also picked up two Citrix ones while working for a MSP for 3 months but I doubt I'll end up doing much with those though it probably is a positive for me to understand those virtualization and load balancing technologies.

Many of my other certifications were earned through school (WGU) like the CIWs, Project+, etc. I list them on here or my Linkedin because I socialize or answer questions for people working through the same degree/certifications. My resume is actually a lot simplier. I list a few of the CompTIAs, CCNA (got through school and loved it), CISSP (A personal challenge to myself) and my MCSE (Don't apply for system admin jobs but it's still good to show I at least understand SOME things on the server-side).


I feel that I've come a long way in 5 years as far as professionally and maturity. I like the salary I make. I wouldn't mind getting more. A lot of my certifications were mistakes or just incidental but I've learned from them.

EDIT: I forgot to add - the network architect who is consulting for 300-500K a year has no certifications whatsoever but been in the IT field since 1995. You can make it with or without certifications if you just pursue knowledge and experience

paul78

I realize that you are polling the folks with the bushel of certs but I wanted to chime in on the topic of people who have no certs. I started in IT in the late 80's. Back then, the IT job landscape was very different. So for those of us that have no certs (or few certs), it's really because having a cert was less common and not as highly-prized. In today's IT landscape, certs help as a way for validating structured education.

For people just starting their IT career (less than 5 years experience) - it's probably not worth comparing having certs to people with 15-25 years of IT experience. I carry certs only as a means for structured education and to satisfy my interest in various IT disciplines.

GoodBishop

Just got a job as a IT manager, though I don't manage anybody.

Process and policy, that's what I manage. And everyone else, albeit indirectly.

Age: 31

GoodBishop

harrell wrote: »

Hello again. To those of you who have loads of certifications in your profile, I'm curious to know what kind of professional position do you have? Are you the lead architect at your firm, are you a professional IT consultant, do you own your own business?... etc.

I must say, after glancing at a few profiles (Iristheangel, JDMurray, to name a few), I'd like to know what type of work you do on a daily basis and has getting all of these certifications been worth it?

Not to get too personal, but I'd have to assume that you make great money? or is it more of a job security thing that's more beneficial by having these certs?

To any of you all who have multiple certs, please do respond. As for me and my few certs, I make really great money for my age and experience (and I only have 4 certs!). I must also say that I have been blessed with the opportunities I've been afforded. The other advantage I have is that I live in the Washington, DC area where jobs are abundant. But, I'm curious as to how I would compare in those in smaller markets.

thanks

Stuff I do on a daily basis: Create secure processes, update policies, review multi-million dollar contracts for security stuff, advice the architects, run network scans, evaluate risks, grant exceptions, manage vendor relationships... honestly, I do something new each day, and it's quite interesting. Gotta love it.

wrightj

paul78 wrote: »

I realize that you are polling the folks with the bushel of certs but I wanted to chime in on the topic of people who have no certs. I started in IT in the late 80's. Back then, the IT job landscape was very different. So for those of us that have no certs (or few certs), it's really because having a cert was less common and not as highly-prized. In today's IT landscape, certs help as a way for validating structured education.

For people just starting their IT career (less than 5 years experience) - it's probably not worth comparing having certs to people with 15-25 years of IT experience. I carry certs only as a means for structured education and to satisfy my interest in various IT disciplines.

+1

I started in the 90s and while I've pursued the structured educational vantage point (e.g., BS in IFSM, MS in Cybersecurity, and CISSP), experience really speaks volumes. I work for the Department of Defense and in this sphere, experience has always meant more than education/certifications. I will say, however, there has been a significant shift as it relates to information security. It's not enough to have experience, the designated certifications that reflect the understanding of the methodologies and processes for IT/Cyber security is consequential. Experience will always reflect highly, but certifications (especially in IT/Cyber security) are now the ticket stamp that get you in a position where you can gain the necessary experience. In some circles, it's mandatory (e.g., the DoD where directives stipulate that certain positions must maintain certain credentials such as CISSP). For example, my position is designated as an Information Assurance Manager level II (IAM-II) where I'm required to have either: SANS GSLC, (ISC)2 CAP, (ISC)2 CISSP, or ISACA CISM.

All-in-all, I agree that comparing those just starting out to those with 1 or more decades of experience and certs with how it may relate to job quality and compensation might not be a valid comparison. I do think with both, however, you're in a much better position and it can only increase your overall value. The more understandings you have of various disciplines and a cross pollination of experience will catapult your career ... most of the time.

Ciao-
J

universalfrost

I use my certs as a selling point to show that I am "better" than the other person and this allows me to get my foot in the door for an interview or leverage when it comes time for internal promotions. ( I have several more MS certs that are old and outdated, like my MCSE for 2k, and will only list them on a resume if the job is looking for those types of certs)

I work in the government in a team lead / mid management role (yes it is confusing to hold dual roles)... for me a cert shows that you have an understanding of a topic and have taken the time to prove your understanding. i too know many many folks that are very knowledgeable on certain areas, but have zero certs... and on the flip side, i know several folks with more certs than you could imagine, but literally have zero technical experience and could not perform basic help desk roles.

bottom line, the certs will help get you into the interview, but you have to sell yourself after that... also if you have a cert, expect to be quizzed on topics from it ( i always like to quiz folks with networking or OS certs, and more often than not i get bogus answers back, which only hurts them worse than someone with out a cert, since i am assuming they used **** or other methods to "****" their way to a cert)...

Ch@rl!3m0ng

JDMurray wrote: »

Certifications can help get your foot in the door for the first-round of a job interview. As you walk in to that interview, you leave all of that paper behind and dazzle the interviewers only with what you can say and do to help the hiring manager and the business.

Certs can open doors to find potential customers too. Some people use an arm-length of certs as self-promotion to sell their services or products. Once again, as the salesman steps into the first meeting with a potential customer, all of that paper is left behind as the salesman is only judged for what s/he can really do for the customer.

Certs can help you start and maintain a career, but often they are only just part of the first step of what you are really trying to achieve.

Totally agree with JD here. Certs are for getting you to the interview stage. But as soon as you get into the interview stage its up to you to prove that you can do what your Certs and CV say you can.

Why do I do certs??

It helps me to structure what I want to learn. Doing a cert for me is like ok what do I need to know to pass the exam. Right what else can I learn whilst studying for this exam?( ie if am studying RIP or OSPF can I learn more than what i need to pass my CCNA? Yes I can so i look at it in more depth)

harrell

Wow... you all are awesome! Really great responses. I can't help but feel a little discouraged however. I have the Solaris 10 certification (required for DoD 8570 mandate), but if my employer were to ask me to configure the Solaris Volume Manager from scratch (a feature in Solaris 10), I'd have to go back to the book and start at page one!!

Maybe what I need to do is set up a testing environment at home. I was recently at an interview for Cloud Computer / UNIX. I have the UNIX thing down-packed, but the Cloud hypervisor configurations...etc, are foreign to me, so i failed the interview . But one thing he asked me was if I do any networking/testing at home. I had to tell him no.

But some of the more "seasoned" veterans (the architects) at my old jobs DO HAVE networks and labs at their homes! I think what I'll do is, continue pursing certs and do some of my own testing at home. Couldn't hurt!

dontstop

1. It's already been said but Certifications are really good for getting you in the door, Experience/Reliability/Proven Delivery are what get you the Projects/Big Paycheques/Respect.

but if my employer were to ask me to configure the Solaris Volume Manager from scratch (a feature in Solaris 10), I'd have to go back to the book and start at page one!!

2. In relation to the above, How often do you perform the following task? If "not very often" is the answer then i wouldn't sweat it. You can only store so much knowledge in your head (tasks that your perform daily/weekly), the rest you should know where it is (not Google) and the rest (the stuff you don't know you don't know) are where Certifications and Mentors come in.

A thing i find helpful is having some kit at home that i call my "Production Network", it supports my Home connection and other Network services and i find this is much more useful than having a lab off in an isolated Network. Once you are held accountable for its stability, reliability, it becomes a different beast. It's the difference between "ill just reload it" to "i need to fix this ASAP without using a destructive process" or set it up in a manner for quick recovery. All good skills that translate directly to workplace scenarios.

ex. My Home Network

* DNS (I run my own Bind Server for my Domain - Split Zones) Primary and Slaver Servers
* DHCP (Boot PXE, Dynamic Pools, Static Assignments)
* WWW (vhosts, Multiple Sites and Services, Blog etc)
* Nagios & Cacti for Monitoring
* Squid WWW Proxy Cache
* Fileserver (CIFS, NFS etc) soon to be a ZFS backed Fileserver (we use this at work)
* Juniper switching as i need to know Juniper for Work
* WPAD via DNS and Proxy Auto Config for clients
* Syslog Server for remote logging
* Rsync to remote Servers (linode and work backup Server)

Future:

* Asterisk Box for my IP Phones i bought
* Will be getting some Cisco Routers up and Running while i lab for ICND1/2
* SRX Router for home Internet Connection & Firewall
* ESXi Server will move into Production, currently Dev
* ZFS File Server
* Bought a cheap Tape Driver to start doing backups of my Fileserver

I've gone through iterations of this and each time you get better and the skills/issues that arise always translate back to work. This has cost me a fair bit of cash to setup, but it's been over a long time, some of it back on tax (training material) and it makes me better at my job.

bryguy

The certifications that I earned were more of a confidence factor for myself, rather than a requirement of my employer (although some of them were definitely required). Studying for these ceritifications forced me to familiarize myself with details that I wouldn't have otherwise considered. If I hadn't studied for these certs, I would have only learned what was required to do my day-to-day job and not much more. In short, studying for these certifications has made me a much better and confident help desk analyst, operations supervisor, network engineer, and security analyst.

Am I earning a 6 figure salary? No, but I like what I do, and I'm confident in doing it, and I wouldn't trade that for twice the money I'm making now. That's where the value of my certs come into play.

paul78

harrell wrote: »

I can't help but feel a little discouraged however.

Yeah - I suspect everyone gets in a rut sometimes. But you have many years ahead and it sounds like you are doing ok and simply by engaging your peers with questions is a great start.

harrell wrote: »

Maybe what I need to do is set up a testing environment at home.

Absolutely... A lab is a MUST-HAVE if you have a passion for your craft and you wish to have it translate to your career. Also, I would say that would be true regardless of profession. My brother-in-law has a furniture business and he once said that he would never hire any woodworker that did not carry their own tools. Similarly, I have friends in medicine and they keep the oddest things (medical and diagnosis equipment which I have no idea what it does) in their home office.

The lab by @dontstop is a good example.

undomiel

As far as my certifications go the A+ was a requirement for my Dell phone support job at the time and the MCSE helped open doors for interviewing for senior level jobs. The rest of the certifications have been a combination of taking advantage of my employer paying for certifications and helping them keep Microsoft partnership levels. The job title I have is systems architect but the work is more like a senior engineer. The pay level isn't six figures yet but I'll be there soon. I do a lot of the certifications for the fun of it and to help establish a baseline of knowledge in an area.

Looking around at work, lots of people that work for my employer don't have any certifications or have expired certifications. Lots of NT4 MCSEs floating around. From the pool of people I've been interviewing so far I have yet to run across a guy with an MCITP. We only had one other MCITP:EA on staff and he was completely useless. You had to hold his hand through the simplest things and it eventually got to the point of we couldn't even trust him to swap out a user's desktop properly.

In the end I think certifications are good for getting an employer interested in talking to you and in helping you learn about a technology, but they most likely won't decide your salary. That's up to your skills and your ability to sell those skills to a prospective employer.

kalkan999

Well, to be honest, I don't even list all of my certs, as they are a bit redundant. CISSP, coupled with newer Microsoft, RHEL, or CISCO certs is a great way to go if you are wanting to stay technically savvy, while PMP, ITIL, CISM will put you down the road to Management with a technical focus. As a person who manages off and on, if I see a LOT of certs, what that sometimes tells me is that the candidate's former employer/s had a decent education budget, but did not necessarily reflect the person's abilities. Hiring managers and executives set the bar for certification requirements, as does the US Government for military contract positions (DoD 8570.01-m). If you want to make it in today's world, don't be an introverted, arrogant techie guy who scoffs at everyone and everything; those guys should have gone the way of the WANG way back in the day, but they didn't. Now they are. Be Personable, Get INVOLVED with your local IT and ISSA, ISC2 local chapters. Volunteer for a good cause where you can share your expertise and get noticed.