CCNP with no expirience

Titinho

I am in the middle of IT vocational school but they leave a lot of gaps, they just tell you the commands to make stuff run but don’t explain how anything works.

So in my free time (which is a lot) I have been studying on my own and got my CCNA and wanted to continue on to the CCNP, but I have read that a CCNP with no work experience raises “red flags”.
What are your opinions about this, I will still study the CCNP material but depending on the responses I might not take the exams

PS: Sorry for any horrible misspell or any weird syntax, English is not my native language

shodown

If you are doing that much work, and you feel you can pass the test go for it. Now when it comes to resume time, leave it off and impress them with your knowledge beyond CCNA.

Imran_Haider

Spending your free time to learn CCNP is really great. I suggest you to carry on and don't think about experience thing. A simple thing how someone can get experience without getting a job. is not it funny calling Fresher for interview or test and rejecting him by saying we required experienced.

Anyhow you should continue your study and when you got good command over CCNP knowledge go for it job too

Iristheangel

I would say to read through the material but not to actually take the tests until you're in a position where you will be applying your knowledge every day at work. The longer you go without using book knowledge like the CCNP, the more you will lose with skill fade. It happens to the best of us and you don't want to misrepresent yourself to an employer by listing a certification that you haven't used in months. Baby steps first. You have an entry-level certification (CCNA) so you should worry about getting an entry-level job first. After that, you can take the next steps to progress your career.

Michael2

I can't imagine what "red flags" would be raised by a CCNP with no work experience. The only thing I can see being an area of concern is that you'd progressed so far in your education and still not gotten a job in IT meaning that either you weren't really trying, you weren't doing a good job "selling" your skills, or that you had something on your record. I guess most employers would assume the third case to be true (kind of funny I think because these people pride themselves on never making assumptions). Nevertheless, someone who merely has a boatload of networking knowledge is of very little value to most companies and easily replaceable.

I suggest you avoid spending the money on the CCNP exams and get your A+ certification instead. I recently came off route from earning my CCNA after coming to this realization and am currently dedicating the majority of my time to studying for A+.

Iristheangel

@Michael - The first red flag I could think of is how someone could receive a professional-level certification without any experience at all. I've interviewed a few people in that situation and I've always gotten the "paper cert" impression. Certifications compliment experience but it does not replace experience. Having a CCNP is great after working in the field for awhile but touting professional-level credentials without any enterprise experience will fall short the second the applicant is put in a real life scenario where they have to think beyond the book. Also: skill fade. How are you really retaining that information from the exam you took x months ago if you arent using it every day?

NOC-Ninja

Titinho wrote: »

I am in the middle of IT vocational school but they leave a lot of gaps, they just tell you the commands to make stuff run but don’t explain how anything works.

So in my free time (which is a lot) I have been studying on my own and got my CCNA and wanted to continue on to the CCNP, but I have read that a CCNP with no work experience raises “red flags”.
What are your opinions about this, I will still study the CCNP material but depending on the responses I might not take the exams

PS: Sorry for any horrible misspell or any weird syntax, English is not my native language

CCNA or CCNP without experience will bring red flags. Some interviewers are lenient and some are not.
Its tough to convince a engineer that someone has a CCNP without any experience. The engineer will definitely grill you on the questions. I think the right word is " try to destroy you ".

Don't let us stop you from getting your CCNP. IMHO... At the end of the day, we are all IT professionals trying to have a better life. Some do it the wrong way and some do it the right way. Do what you think is best for you.

wave

I think you should go for the CCNP. I personally don't agree 100% with the "certifications complement experience" comment. For me, studying for Cisco certs has given me a fantastic framework to worth within, and I wouldn't have been given the opportunities that have been offered to me in my current job if I hadn't been studying. If you are interviewing with people who understand certifications then they will value your efforts. In my recent job search I haven't struck one employer who didn't see the value of Cisco certifications.

To keep fresh just keep studying!

If you become a CCNP you will do better in interviews and you can can prove your dedication to learning, and that you know how to find information when troubleshooting etc. You're going to look much better than the other candidate who doesn't have the cert, that's for sure!

Roguetadhg

I'm on the side of:

Get the certification; However, don't list it on your resume. - Side.

Look kiddo, you need experience. Experience -is- king. Getting a CCNP which says you're no longer an entry-level worker... which the CCNP books state that you're thinking about Planning. You're no longer that Entry-Level, Green monkey doing all the command work anymore. As an Entry-Level person, you're bound to ask a lot of questions. You're learning. You're learning that the CCNA isn't the Be-All, End-All to knowledge. For example: How do you order a brand new MPLS line to your branch office? How do you deal with upper management and telling them "This is what I need to make it work". You're a mentor at this /B]CCNP[B level; It's time to think like a Professional.

Certifications are merely a framework of knowledge, wrapped up in a neat little package to test if you know it to their expectations. However, going outside of the box is needed, sometimes. For example, Using Wireshark to track down corrupt packets, navigating Cisco's Website I]This should be it's own certification[/I Personally I'm not happy with just the CCNA level stuff. It's why I read the CCNP:Route, I enjoyed the BGP chapters, especially.

With that said... I'm not going for my CCNP. Mostly because of Cost (Which isn't an excuse looking at the cost of the Voice/Security labs now) but also because If I get it, I want to be damn sure I slap "CCNA" off and put "CCNP". I'd probably bold the "P" section, font: 20, Italics, Blue. BUT! Because you have it, doesn't mean you can't be an awesome CCNA. CCNA, afterall is required for the CCNP. *wink*

QHalo

NOC-Ninja wrote: »

CCNA or CCNP without experience will bring red flags.

Sorry but a CCNA with no experience is going to raise a red flag? You do realize that that is an entry level certification right? It would be fairly trivial to test a CCNA's knowledge in an interview to find out if they really understood the material. Now CCNP, eh I can agree with that to an extent. All of these certs are easily vetted quickly in an interview whether or not the candidate knows their stuff if the interviewer is asking the right questions.

NOC-Ninja

QHalo wrote: »

Sorry but a CCNA with no experience is going to raise a red flag? You do realize that that is an entry level certification right? It would be fairly trivial to test a CCNA's knowledge in an interview to find out if they really understood the material. Now CCNP, eh I can agree with that to an extent. All of these certs are easily vetted quickly in an interview whether or not the candidate knows their stuff if the interviewer is asking the right questions.

No, CCENT is entry level.
CCENT - Career Certifications & Paths - Cisco Systems
Cisco Certified Entry Networking Technician (CCENT) validates the ability to install, operate and troubleshoot a small enterprise branch network, including basic network security.

Although, I get your point. I'm too lazy to prove my POV. back to studying.

BroadcastStorm

Just make-up a fictitous company and have your BFF or GF act as the President of IT, problem solved

atorven

Until you get reference stage.

Hopefully I will be done with the CCNA soon and I will most likely get started on CCNP: Route, doubt that I will take the exam any time soon and even if I did I would never list it on my CV, that's just painting a target on your back without experience, I would rather impress people with this knowledge whilst they think I know less.

WiseWun

Forget about CCNA/CCNP with no experience, try meeting CCIE's that have never touched a production device! I have and I don't know how they got their #. I guess its possible to braindump the written and **** on the lab by purchasing the questions online.

I came across one person who is a CCIE but never talks about it, he's making less money and can't even answer simple questions. Best believe you will be tested in an interview if you include your # in the resume.

QHalo

NOC-Ninja wrote: »

No, CCENT is entry level.
CCENT - Career Certifications & Paths - Cisco Systems
Cisco Certified Entry Networking Technician (CCENT) validates the ability to install, operate and troubleshoot a small enterprise branch network, including basic network security.

Although, I get your point. I'm too lazy to prove my POV. back to studying.

I knew you would go back to that. I've never seen a job post that mentioned CCENT. I don't see any threads on this board where people with no experience in networking say, "I'm shooting for CCENT". Some, including myself, got it simply because they chose to take the two exam approach to the CCNA. CCENT is also rather new, CCNA was the entry level cert and is really what people look at when they take the venture into Cisco networking. Did you get your CCENT before you got your first job? Sorry, but no one goes simply for CCENT. It's one half of the CCNA, why would someone only do half and then go looking for job?

jamesleecoleman

Going off topic: A IT vocational school that leaves a lot of gaps should raise a red flag all by its self. Do you have to go to this school?

RouteMyPacket

Iristheangel wrote: »

I would say to read through the material but not to actually take the tests until you're in a position where you will be applying your knowledge every day at work. The longer you go without using book knowledge like the CCNP, the more you will lose with skill fade. It happens to the best of us and you don't want to misrepresent yourself to an employer by listing a certification that you haven't used in months. Baby steps first. You have an entry-level certification (CCNA) so you should worry about getting an entry-level job first. After that, you can take the next steps to progress your career.

Iristheangel wrote: »

@Michael - The first red flag I could think of is how someone could receive a professional-level certification without any experience at all. I've interviewed a few people in that situation and I've always gotten the "paper cert" impression. Certifications compliment experience but it does not replace experience. Having a CCNP is great after working in the field for awhile but touting professional-level credentials without any enterprise experience will fall short the second the applicant is put in a real life scenario where they have to think beyond the book. Also: skill fade. How are you really retaining that information from the exam you took x months ago if you arent using it every day?

Absolutely 100% spot on!

I would NEVER bring someone into my Enterprise who did not have years of hands on experience. Real life isn't some book and that would also be a red flag for me and I would simply toss the resume to the side.

Iris really said it all, CCNA cert in place, ok now try to land something that will utilize some of those skills on a daily basis. You've already proven you are willing to learn through getting the certification, now it's time to get the experience that your certs should supplement.

Titinho

jamesleecoleman wrote: »

Going off topic: A IT vocational school that leaves a lot of gaps should raise a red flag all by its self. Do you have to go to this school?

Yes, the problem is that it is public, and we have teachers with no work experience, or the don’t have a clue of how it is in the real world, some of them are high school level math teachers add to that teacher tenure and you get lazy teachers that have no idea on what they are talking about


PS: thanks for all the advice

iyare

Would you guys rather he sat on his rear and did nothing? Man, go ahead and get that NP.

dpjackal89

QHalo wrote: »

I knew you would go back to that. I've never seen a job post that mentioned CCENT. I don't see any threads on this board where people with no experience in networking say, "I'm shooting for CCENT". Some, including myself, got it simply because they chose to take the two exam approach to the CCNA. CCENT is also rather new, CCNA was the entry level cert and is really what people look at when they take the venture into Cisco networking. Did you get your CCENT before you got your first job? Sorry, but no one goes simply for CCENT. It's one half of the CCNA, why would someone only do half and then go looking for job?

I agree with Qhalo. The CCENT is a worthless cert and I am only going after it because it is on my path to CCNA.

Ismaeljrp

Exactly, go for it. Or at least study for it, and give yourself time to gain more experience ( I would say 1 year worth of CCNA/CCNP experience ) then test and get certified. The main reason I say this, and not the " get certified but leave off your resume " is because of the expiration date. If you did get your cert, by the time you should confidently put it on your resume, how much time left do you have ? 2 years? 1.5 yrs?...doesn't make sense to me , you'd only be a year or so into your "CCNP" career and already it's about to expire....I say this because I'm sorta dealing with a similar situation, only thing is my situation is; if I get my CCNA by March 2013 as planned, I still don't graduate college until May 2014.

In my opinion you don't want to stall both education and career. Try to find a balance and good timing as to when to further your education ( or certify your education ) with respect to what you are doing at your job.

JasonIT

Maybe another POV? I would get the CCNP, it cannot hurt you. Be realistic in the job you are searching for though. Even with a CCNP and zero experience, I would hire you for certain networking jobs. I would think a CCNP with zero experience would be a better hire than a CCNA with zero experience for the same job? More education rarely if ever hurts you, as long as YOU are being realistic with the job you are after.

Good Luck either way in your future endeavors.

J

sratakhin

Following your logic, a CCIE with no experience would be even better than a CCNP with no experience.

YFZblu

I have sort of evolved to the point of agreeing with those who think CCNP is best left to the practitioners. Get the CCNA, and scramble to find paid networking work as soon as possible. In the meantime, broaden your knowledge with the specializations: Security, voice, wireless.

CCNA with experience > CCNP without experience

.02

NOC-Ninja

sratakhin wrote: »

Following your logic, a CCIE with no experience would be even better than a CCNP with no experience.

This ^

Why waste time on CCNP if you can go CCIE without experience?

Iristheangel

BroadcastStorm wrote: »

Just make-up a fictitous company and have your BFF or GF act as the President of IT, problem solved

Unless you're applying for a medium to large sized company that actually makes sure of the company you listed and the references. This happened with someone that almost got hired at my current job where HR could find no record of the company the new employee listed so they asked to see their tax returns to verify the company name. Needless to say, that employee wasn't hired when he couldn't provide them

Iristheangel

iyare wrote: »

Would you guys rather he sat on his rear and did nothing? Man, go ahead and get that NP.

No, We've been pretty clear. Find a job to utilize the CCNA knowledge first and then go after the NP after the CCNA material is solidified from daily use.

xbuzz

Where most people fail, is that they do certs like ccna/ccnp etc, when they don't have a networking job, then they lose all that knowledge after a few months because they are not working with the technology and don't bother to keep studying the material to keep it fresh in their minds. That's why alot of people have negative reactions to these questions, because most people just get these certs and then lose all the knowledge because they can't be bothered to keep studying the material to retain knowledge, then go into jobs/interviews and can't answer simple questions.

So my advice would be to do whatever cert at whatever level you want, but when you're done with that cert make sure to keep studying the material so that you retain the knowledge.

For someone in the workforce to get CCNP before they even have a networking job is weird, because they should have gotten a job after CCNA, but since you're currently in full time education (?), you have a legitimate reason for not getting a job after CCNA. Just beware that for every cert you do you'll have to keep studying after doing the exams, the higher the cert the more stuff you will have to go over to retain the knowledge and it can consume alot of time.

bermovick

Gotta disagree. I got my CCNP with (next to) no experience, and I don't think it's hurt me any. Frankly I got it BECAUSE I wasn't getting any real-world experience at the job I was doing, and wanted to move forward in whatever way I could (experience would have been preferable of course, but that wasn't a choice I had)

At the interview for the job I'm starting next week, when asked about my weakness I was right up-front that I had all the "book knowledge", but it was mostly theory, I was light on 'real world' usage of it.

I mean it's really guesswork for me if the NP got me the interview or the offer (or my bubbly personality did!), but I really can't think it hurt any.

Obviously something like this is going to be like having your resume reviewed - what one reviewer says TO NEVER DO, someone else will say YOU MUST DO.

WiseWun

I agree with bermovick on this one. It doesn't hurt to get your NP or even IE as long as you know the theory and being honest with the employer. I know a friend who worked at helpdesk and had his NP. When asked why arent you utilizing the cert, he said he wanted to gain some experience first, he didn't even listed on his resume but knew NP Voice material very well without any practical experience. All this time he was studying (reading/labs)

After a year, he applied for another gig and doubled his income. Is his current employer too concerned about his pasts? Probably not. He was heavily tested by IE's and upper management. We all need to start off somewhere, someone out their will give you a chance so be prepared when the opportunity comes.*

The market is very competitive and I would do what it takes to put dinner on the table as long as its ethical. When I attend interviews, the panel are impressed that I'm dedicated and willing to learn/master different technologies. Majority have said I got the potential to become something great.'. I don't BS on my resume, I list items that I know whether it's from practical experience or self study (theory).

What I dislike is people who get a certification by cheating and think they are a SME. Had a coworker last week tell me or should I say brag all about his credentials, he loves the letter "I" and enjoys taking credit and making lots of noise for others to notice him. He said he got his NA several years ago and jokingly I asked him so you know your networking stuff, his response was "f&@& you, I been doing this since you were drinking milk". I didn't know whether I should have laughed or take it personally. He sure did the latter.

No I didn't report him to HR but I kept my distance. Was told by others that he's not technical at all and I should ignore him. Topic stemmed when he saw some papers I left behind which were VLSM exercises and he didn't have a clue. He even jumped in on a BGP topic I was having with another coworker, he said the silliest thing (I think it was about convergences) and tried to argue.

Theres a recent thread about someone with similiar experience who made 6 figures in just 2 years with his VCP cert, I'm on my mobile but search it up yourself. I apologize for the long post but here are the key takeaways.*

1) Be honest at all times.
2) Obtain and retain knowledge.
3) Ignore silly coworkers.

Legacy User

NOC-Ninja wrote: »

No, CCENT is entry level.

Even though the CCENT is entry level many people do not know what that certification is. When I just had only my CCENT listing it on my resume the phone screeners always asked what is that certification and I had to explain it. But once I added the CCNA to my resume the phone screeners would say wow I see you have your ccna thats good.