Agile and Scrum

timone_g

Hi everyone,
I am PMP Certified Project Manager with 3 years of Project Management experience and I have cleared PMP 4 months back. I am currently looking for information on what path in Project Management to take next. I would any advice regarding the options available, apart from this can anyone let me know what is the difference between Agile certification and Certified ScrumMaster?

universalfrost

so you just said that you have 3 years of PM experience and are PMP certified... So i am assuming you worked almost non stop on PM projects during that time (i am getting at the hours of experience you need to even apply to take the PMP)...

also, several different agile certs, which one are you interested in?

the website toe the certified scrum master answers most of your questions (the class is expensive and is a requirement for the test). one of the folks here recently sat through it and passed the test... he might be able to provide more insight on it (it is on my to do list, but they dont offer it in afghanistan at the moment and i have to wait until the spring when i am in the states to take it).. .

timone_g

Just to clarify I have total work experience of 10 years, out of which last 5 to 6 years I have worked on project in various capacities and last 3 years as Project Manager.

I am currently working on multiple Projects to implement Vendor solution to various clients whose services are managed by my company.

What I wanted to understand was which certification would be relevant for me in the future. I have gone to the Scrum Website and found it to be confusing. Does Scrum or Agile certification have specialization.

I might sound dumb but I am trying to understand what next after PMP.

Quantumstate

Well Scrum is a subset of Agile methodology. I chose to study mainly Agile, and it's done on your own.

I did take the class for ScrumMaster and passed the test. I had a very good instructor and so the class was easy. Today I have a one-day class for the ACP, but that's not even a fraction of enough by any stretch of the imagination. So I have alot of self study before I can sit for the ACP.

You have to have almost a year of actual Agile experience before you can get the ACP, and all you guys over there getting the ACP do not have the practice hours and are cheating. It's rampant and corrupt. I think that is BS. It's going to give the ACP a bad name if PMI doesn't do something about it, from you guys coming over here not knowing what the Hell you're doing. I'm not even sure I'm going to want the ACP in six months for this reason.

timone_g

Quantumstate : Can you clarify this please "You have to have almost a year of actual Agile experience before you can get the ACP, and all you guys over there getting the ACP do not have the practice hours and are cheating. It's rampant and corrupt. I think that is BS. It's going to give the ACP a bad name if PMI doesn't do something about it, from you guys coming over here not knowing what the Hell you're doing. I'm not even sure I'm going to want the ACP in six months for this reason"

charlemagne

If you already have the PMP and 3+ years as a project manager, seems logical to check what advanced certification(s) are good in your target industry or company. I'm a member of PMI and you should know all about their advanced certs. You could go through APMG (Internationally recognized) and they have Agile specific certifications (with a PMP I think you'd qualify for the Agile Practitioner exam) but all you have to do is look them up on Google and they have a US office. You can do self-study and take the exam. Seems, though, with a PMP and experience, you already have what a lot do not have. Seriously, you ought to consider the Agile cert through PMI.
Ignore the naysayers. Pay attention to what those in your target industry are looking for. Call or write HR folks in companies you are interested in working for. Ask and you will find out exactly the information you need and it will be accurate and good for YOU since your goals are unique to you. There are always going to be people that differ in opinion regarding Scrum or non-PMI related certifications. Play it safe and ask the people in companies that specifically seek Agile certified folks and you'll get an answer. Beyond the PMP and experience, there isn't much more you can do better than get experience in Agile PM. What next after the PMP and your experience? ONLY YOU know your goals. Everything beyond the PMP should be as focused toward achieving that goal as possible and it might not (probably wouldn't) require additional certification.
Bottom line: Ask the people that are doing what you want to do upon achieving any Agile certs. Plus, given that you have a PMP and years of project management experience, it's rather confusing that you "are trying to understand what next after PMP?"
What comes next seems like a clear focus on exactly what job you want, where you want to work, etc. If you can't answer this considering your credentials and experience, passing another exam isn't the answer. You have to know your destination in order to chart the path to get there.

charlemagne

Quantumstate wrote: »

Well Scrum is a subset of Agile methodology. I chose to study mainly Agile, and it's done on your own.

I did take the class for ScrumMaster and passed the test. I had a very good instructor and so the class was easy. Today I have a one-day class for the ACP, but that's not even a fraction of enough by any stretch of the imagination. So I have alot of self study before I can sit for the ACP.

You have to have almost a year of actual Agile experience before you can get the ACP, and all you guys over there getting the ACP do not have the practice hours and are cheating. It's rampant and corrupt. I think that is BS. It's going to give the ACP a bad name if PMI doesn't do something about it, from you guys coming over here not knowing what the Hell you're doing. I'm not even sure I'm going to want the ACP in six months for this reason.

@Quantumstate: Although I'm a member of PMI, I'm not a big fan of theirs. Nevertheless, they are the only group that meets ISO International standards and whatever certification (ACP) they offer, it's not what you or I or the guy down the road thinks: It's ultimately the HR manager at the place someone wants to work. If you are aware of cheating that, as you state, is "rampant and corrupt," then you ought to enlighten the appropriate people with factual evidence of this or just admit that it's your opinion. You have "PMP" listed so you ought to know.
"...all you guys 'over there' getting the ACP do not have the practice hours and are cheating. It's rampant and corrupt." Oh, please! These are serious accusations so prove it to the appropriate people or treat people with respect. It's okay to disagree. Seems you are rather angry and venting. PMI didn't get their current position when it comes to the prestige of their certifications by practicing in a foolish manner. Oh, as a PMP, read the ethical rules you are supposed to adhere to. As our second president, John Adams, once said: "Facts are stubborn things." IF YOU DON'T HAVE FACTS TO SUPPORT your claim of "cheating" then let it go. Don't make serious allegations that you cannot factually support. If you can, then contact PMI. If not, then I would imagine most folks here would appreciate civility even if you're addressing a serious point.

Quantumstate

You seem to think that I have done nothing about this charlemagne. You are wrong.
According to the H1Bs at work, backing each other up is the only way for them to get past audits over there.

Why wouldn't I be angry about cheating? If you are not, you must be in their camp. Where are you located charlemagne?

And no, it is NOT enough to have the hours in as a PM. You must also have almost a year's actual practice in Agile before you qualify for ACP.

universalfrost

from my point of view it is fishy for the OP to be asking these questions when he is already an experienced PM ...

as for scrum, if you are in the software industry then it would be beneficial to go that route.. .otherwise a knowledge of scrum would be all that you would need in the "normal" IT PM industry (or any PM industry)....

As for agile, it was born in the software sector, but has really matured in the manufacturing sector. I did my Masters Thesis on Agile methodologies (did a pro/con for majority of the methodologies and even made a point that traditional methods are still useful for inexperienced PM's or certain sectors of the industries)...

having a knowledge of the methodologies and when to implement them is very helpful... i recently went into an interview and one of the folks asked about my knowledge of agile and scrum... after me explaining everything to them (including the agile manifesto) for nearly 20 minutes I had their undivided attention and I could tell that they had almost no clue about agile other than that is the latest catchy phrase (and i later found out 1 of them had his agile cert , but not his PMP)... the first steps agile implementation in projects is to understand the agile methodologies and how they assist in the Project life cycle... for my projects i have implemented traditional overall plans, but for sub projects or deliverable i might implement agile methodologies for the smaller picture items (i work in the DoD IT industry that is still in the dark ages of project management and program management even though they claim to have embraced agile, but the acquisitions structure and regulations are hindering true agile implementation).


anyway start reading and researching (agile manifesto is a great place to start)....

pumbaa_g

I think a simple question asked by someone seeking guidance has been turned into a debate on ethics and outsourcing.
Quantamstate could you please explain why you will think that just because a person is from a location outside US that it automatically means that you can relate them to a stereotype (H1B's)
I dont read anywhere that the person who asked the question intends to get certified without getting the actual required experience in Agile, was that an assumption?

Quantumstate

pumbaa, please read my above post #8, more carefully this time.

Youall are busted.

charlemagne

Quantumstate wrote: »

pumbaa, please read my above post #8, more carefully this time.

Youall are busted.

Where I am from is none of your concern. I am an academic by training and have no inclination in wasting my time in a futile attempt to have a rational discussion with you. When one makes assertions (i.e. you) that have no logical foundation upon which to form a reasoned argument to prove a point, then it would be (upon viewing your other posts) counterproductive as you have already formed conclusions and this is not an arena for such "discussions." You're free to believe as you desire. I will have no part of it.

Aldur

Ok kids, it's time to start playing nice again, or I'll have to lock this thread.

And please stay on topic of the thread, it's gone way off course.

Quantumstate

Make no mistake Aldur, this is not kids' play. This is a serious and widespread problem. But I understand it is OT.

Scrummatt

Firstly congratulations on your PMP certification, i know they dont come easy. Regarding your question i would say it depends on what field are you comfortable working in. PMP in general has a lot of applications in multiple fields, may it be IT or Infrastructure or so on and so forth. Once you have identified that you need to understand what kind (size and scale) of work would you be comfortable handling to begin with. Based on that you could approach firms that are looking for project managers and take it from there. Also there are websites available online for counseling as such but for a fee. You could opt for the free ones like scrum-master.info and go to the ask an expert section and post your query there for a more valuable input.

Scrummatt

Hi,

Regarding your question, agile and scrum are both Methodologies currently being sort out by the IT industry to help manage the SDLC in a better manner. Essentially scrum is a part of agile but in terms of certification and know how most training providers providing both these courses will briefly touch up on the concepts of scrum while teaching agile (owing to the fact the number of methodologies included under agile ) so might be more of a brush up if you already know the concept but virtually of no use to people looking to adopt Scrum. I would suggest Scrum Master Certification then Agile Training to grasp both better.

Alanbaldwin558

Well Scrum is an Agile methodology which is most widely accepted and matured. It is a process control tool which enhances productivity. Agile is a broader concept consisting of XP, Scrum, Lean, Kanban, etc. Scrum Master certification is offered by Scrualliance.com, Scrum.org and Scrumstudy.com. They offer the same certification with different names. But 2 day training doesnt make you the master. You need to develop your skills with experience.

timone_g

Thank you Scrummatt and Alanbaldwin558