New Job Offer - Need Your Feedback!

Good morning TE!

I am in a bit of a career dilemma here. I have received a new job offer from a Fortune 10 company. I am currently well employed and enjoy my current role, but given this new offer (they found me), I'm conflicted.

My Current Role:
IT Operations Manager with a six figure salary
Large private company
Manage ~30,000 interal end points and a team of 15
Employed here for almost 2 years
Know the infrastructure well
20 minute commute time
Fairly low stress environment
Just received a 10% raise (that I didn't ask for) in lieu of performance
Middle range advancement opportunities (2 or 3 roles above me I could move into over 10 years)
Company may be IPOed in the next 5 years (Always scary)
More time to finish school work, and fairly flexible schedule
Role is about 80% management, 20% technical

New Role:
IT Security Manager role that more closely relates to security, and subsequently, my college degrees.
Being a Fortune 10 company, this is the kind of company people work at until retirement
Would manage ~2,000 client/external end points, and a team of 5-7
Federal data center support
1 hour commute (i'd probably move close after a year or two)
A 20-25% increase over my current base salary (even after my recent raise)
Likely higher stress given government support
HUGE advancement opportunities
More ridged schedule with possible requirement of shift work (12 hours shifts 4 one week, 3 following week)
Huge learning opportunities from new job duties
Role is about 30% technical, 70% management

Both companies support cert reimbursement, and both companies offer bonus and benefits. The new company has lower bonuses, but much better benefits. In both roles, I would manage a 24x7 staffing model.

Overall, there's a lot to this situation, and it's making my head swim. I've made a pros and cons (short and long term) list for myself to help decide, but some external feedback is appreciated. Feel free to ask questions, I'll be monitoring this thread closely over the next couple days.

Thanks in advance to my TE family!

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Comments

networker050184

Tough decision. A couple random thoughts that I would be considering in your situation.

The longer commute sucks, but if you think this is a company you would plan on staying with long term you could always move closer.

The advancement opportunities would definitely interest me.

The rigid schedule would be a turn off for sure.

Salary increase is a plus no doubt and with better benefits it would probably swing my choice that way.

Over all the new position sounds better to me, but there is something to be said for enjoying your job even if it pays less.

CISPhD

I very much agree with you Networker.

While the longer commute is less desirable it won't be my first time with a long commute. I used to drive 90 mins one way to work. It was killer, but as stated, I have the option to move closer.

The advancement opps are very interesting as well. Even if I don't like this entire department, this company is so large that I can transfer away from IT and into something crazy like fine foods (Good to know if I ever suffer an info sec mental breakdown :P).

I do enjoy my schedule quite a lot now. I have a question into the hiring manager for just what the schedule would be. That may be one of many deciding factors.

A lot of the trivial cons here may certainly be made up for by the 25% salary increase. At these levels, it's quite an increase.

Thanks for the feedback networker. Looking forward to much more from all of you!

MrXpert

A person's happyness is priceless I think. You really have to assess I think what benefits you in the long term. In my opinion if I were in a similar situation I'd consider whether an extra 25% salary is worth it or not because I have found that salary increases soon negate themselves if the job is overely demanding and the commute is longer, and you end up putting in more work than you anticipated. But then you've got the training aspects which as you mentioned appear to be very good.
Got to take the rough with the smooth and there seems to me more smooth than rough on the new company

What did you think of the people that you met with at the Fortune 10 place? did you meet the team?

jm0202

Well you have a nice job offer. However idk what your situation is:
Do you have kids?
Are you married? if it is so what does your wife thinks about it?
If you are single the questions is What do you really want for your career?

paul78

That is indeed a dilemma. How much time do you have to decide?

There are so many dimensions to making this type of decision and everyone has their own criteria and aspirations that on the surface there is probably no right or wrong decision.

My initial thought if I was in your shoes and given your description is to take the job. For me, the increased compensation would be the draw, followed by the opportunity to try a new organization and learn how that organization works and operates. If you will be working with a FISMA data center, that could be interesting as well.

The other opportunities are simply that- "opportunities" - there is no gurantee of promotion at either org and for myself, a 1 hour commute isnt a big deal.

The only hesitation that stuck a cord was the reduced management responsibilities and the shift-work. If there is only one manager, a 4 day shift seems odd. But then again, I bet a 10 hour day may be normal for a 5 day week.

A hearty congratulations to you on the job offer!

CISPhD

Thanks for the continued feedback.

@MrXpert: I'm right there with you on happiness My happiness isn't a HUGE deal, but it does certainly count. At present, I'm a younger professional who is carrying some debt (mostly student loans), so the increased salary will help me tolerate a small hit to my smile-levels. :P Furthermore, the increased work may not be a bad thing... Where I am now, I have a 40 - 50 hour week (not a lot), but I don't find myself actively learning at work... It's the same stuff day in and day out. Working with such a large organization who has such a wide array of projects, the learning potential is seemingly unlimited. Regarding the team itself... Being a F10 company, all interviews were over the phone, but extensive. I've likely spent a total of 5 hours on the phone in three separate instances. The team I would be managing seems to have a great sense of humor, and gets along great. Furthermore, my direct manager is a past CIO/EVP... So I have a good mentor to look up to throughout my employment. If you couldn't tell by my username, education, learning, and... well... over achievement are a big part of my life. :P

@jm0202: My current situation is married for almost a decade with no kids yet, but we are planning on kids in about a year or two. Hence, medical benefits are a HUGE deal, and this company does offer MUCH better benefits than my current role. However, in my current role, I can pick my own schedule, so working my schedule around "date night" is fairly easy as well. If I took this role, that "may" not be a possibility. Might have to move that to Saturday night? lol

@paul78: Thanks for chiming in, I feel like we're becoming old friends with as much as we feed off of each other here. :P I probably have until the end of the week (at the latest). This company is VERY eager to get me on boarded. I told them I'd appreciate giving my current employer a 1 month notice and they said if I could do two weeks it would be appreciated, but understood that I didn't want to burn any bridges. I also agree that there are quite a few layers to this opportunity. As MrXpert noted... you have to take the rough with the smooth. Having this company on a resume, should I ever leave, would be great. Even something as simple as working for this company will certainly open future doors. Also, FISMA compliance is a new field for me within Info Sec, so that is a big plus as well. Thanks for providing the "the other opportunities are just that" insight. I appreciate you providing prospective there. Finally, I agree that the reduce management responsibilities are a bit of a drag, but I'm "told" the management requirements will shift more towards the 50/50 range once the department (it's only a couple years old) reaches full development. One last thought, thanks for the congrats. I was pretty stoked when they called me out of the blue.

Thanks again to all for your feedback. Who else wants to buy in and change someone's life today!? :P

pert

I think it all sounds good except the 1hr commute part. 12 hour shifts with 1hr commute each way will kill you over time. Why cant you move now, you have no kids? I'd say move and take it.

spicy ahi

You have a great problem to have! To be honest, I think beyond compensation, happiness, and all that stuff what it really boils down to is this: are you satisfied? Are you satisfied with where your at? And if not, how far away are you from being satisfied? I try to look at my career as part of my life's journey and not all of it. So I take into account all of the different things in my life that make me satisfied. So I'd say to take a step back and try to visualize what your image of a satisfying life will be in 5 years, then 10, then 20 etc. For example, you mentioned kids. How much of a role do you want to have in their lives? Do you just want to be a provider? Or do you want to be that dad who coaches their soccer team? Drive them to school and/or pick them up? Also look at your relationship with your spouse. What do you have to do to make and keep her happy, and how are you going to work that into your life's story? What about hobbies? Are their things you like to do that you enjoy? Play a sport or fix cars? What do you like to do in your free time? Where will that fit in your life?

Sometimes people forget that there's more to life than getting that next awesome job (unless that's what you determine will satisfy you; if that's the case, then most definitely climb that ladder!) and constantly pursue those jobs while the other aspects of their lives lack attention and investment. I kind of look at life the same way they say you're supposed to look at your 401k. It's always best to spread your investment across different vehicles to insulate against fluctuations in the market. Life is the same way in that there will be highs and lows. If you spread your time as evenly as possible across all the things that make you satisfied with life, then you'll always be satisfied with life whether you hit a peak or a valley.

I truly envy you because you have the opportunity to mold your career and your life right now. I've long since passed that point and with so many obligations it's tough to change gears. I'm excited for you, especially because it seems like a win-win situation either way you go. Good luck!

GoodBishop

CISPhD wrote: »

Good morning TE!

I am in a bit of a career dilemma here. I have received a new job offer from a Fortune 10 company. I am currently well employed and enjoy my current role, but given this new offer (they found me), I'm conflicted.
My Current Role:
IT Operations Manager with a six figure salary
Large private company
Manage ~30,000 interal end points and a team of 15
Employed here for almost 2 years
Know the infrastructure well
20 minute commute time
Fairly low stress environment
Just received a 10% raise (that I didn't ask for) in lieu of performance
Middle range advancement opportunities (2 or 3 roles above me I could move into over 10 years)
Company may be IPOed in the next 5 years (Always scary)
More time to finish school work, and fairly flexible schedule
Role is about 80% management, 20% technical

New Role:
IT Security Manager role that more closely relates to security, and subsequently, my college degrees.
Being a Fortune 10 company, this is the kind of company people work at until retirement
Would manage ~2,000 client/external end points, and a team of 5-7
Federal data center support
1 hour commute (i'd probably move close after a year or two)
A 20-25% increase over my current base salary (even after my recent raise)
Likely higher stress given government support
HUGE advancement opportunities
More ridged schedule with possible requirement of shift work (12 hours shifts 4 one week, 3 following week)
Huge learning opportunities from new job duties
Role is about 30% technical, 70% management

Both companies support cert reimbursement, and both companies offer bonus and benefits. The new company has lower bonuses, but much better benefits. In both roles, I would manage a 24x7 staffing model.

Overall, there's a lot to this situation, and it's making my head swim. I've made a pros and cons (short and long term) list for myself to help decide, but some external feedback is appreciated. Feel free to ask questions, I'll be monitoring this thread closely over the next couple days.

Thanks in advance to my TE family!

There is a lot to this situation. At some point though, it doesn't become about the money. Like you, I'm a IT manager with a excellent salary, and when I was looking for a job, I really focused on work-life balance, because I think happiness is a key factor.

I remember reading somewhere that people become very unhappy the longer their commute is. I think it would start to eat at you, doing that hour commute every day. Think about it - that's a extra 80 minutes per day out of your life that you will never get back. 80 minutes times 260 working days is a extra 346.7 hours per year that you will be commuting. Keep that in mind.

Also, remember that once you have kids, work-life balance will be very important. I have a 7 month old (who just said da-da for the first time today, woo!), and my wife works, so we have to juggle our professional lives and day care, and raising a family too. I appreciate the flexibility that my job offers me to leave early for day care (of course, when my wife asks me how I can leave early, I tell her that I'm the boss, and then I have this song going in my head - Like A Boss (ft. Seth Rogen) - Uncensored Version - YouTube

)

This job does have a lot going for you, a 20% raise is nothing to sneeze at, plus Fortune 10, plus great advancement opportunities. The thing that I would worry about is the high stress, the shift work, and the commute. If you go into work every day stressed... after a while it will be like Ivan Drago saying "I will break you".

Think about it, and let us know what you decide.

N2IT

Not much to add. Make sure to think it through the gig you have now sounds pretty sweet.

JDMurray

Is the new job what you see as your next step (or two) in your career goals? You need money for a future house, kids, schools, vacations, taxes, healthcare, and retirement, so more money is definitely better in 2013. Unfortunately, you won't know if the new job is a good working situation (personalities, politically) until you been at for a while. It's difficult to work somewhere when you aren't happy regardless of the money.

You've already done so much thinking about it you probably already know what you want to do.

paul78

If you have until end of week, then I would say don't rush the decision but don't wait until Friday afternoon either.

A lot does depend on what you ultimately would like your career to go. I realize as many others have stated that there needs to be work-life balance. But the ratio and perception of balance can be so individualized. Available time away from work is only one dimension of the ratio in my experience. If you are younger and since you have no kids, now may be the time to seize the moment.

I admit that I work long hours. I left the office around 9:30pm today for example. But the trade-off is that I have worked to a senior level over the past 20 years where at least I can call the shots at work and no one is counting the hours that I spend in or out of the office.

The balance for me is the higher compensation. This translate to many things; like: my spouse's job is to stay at home and care for our daughter, we have a nice home, we can afford to sent my daughter to one of the best private schools in the country, etc.

PurpleIT

Well, I seem to be a day late, but a few things stood out for me with your post.

First, as others have said, this is a good problem to have. I will do everything I can so I have to face such issues in the future!

It sounds like your current job is comfortable, but maybe it is just starting to get a little boring? As someone who has a tendency to stay at a job until it starts to bore or frustrate me to the point that I have to get out, I say, if it is getting boring you should look at leaving before that becomes an issue. As an overachiever I wouldn't think that "settling" like this would really satisfy you.

Not knowing where you live, but given that you are near a Fortune 10 company, I am assuming it is one of the larger metro areas and probably has a higher cost of living. This somewhat offsets the six figure salary, so the raise is more than just "nice", especially if you are looking to start a family later.

This can be a time of investment; not just with the extra money, but with learning, networking and preparing for the time when you do start a family and will probably want to adjust your priorities.

The one big issue I see is the commute time, unless you can take a train or something and make use of that time it would be a killer (for me); but if you can move closer and that would be to an area you would want to live with kids...

How does the spouse feel about the potential schedule change and the loss of "date night" flexibility?

On the whole, I would go for it; if it doesn't work out long-term it sounds like you have the experience and credentials to make another move after a couple of years so you aren't locking yourself into a bad situation.

CISPhD

Hey everyone, just dropping in for a quick update here. I sent a counter offer back to the company today requesting fair market value. Their offer came in at around 43% of market value. I asked for another 10% in pay, which would move this to about 51% of market value. For the size of this company, that nominal increase shouldn't be hard to swallow.

Regarding the commute... The wife and I have discussed everything regarding the drive, and we both agree that if, after about a year or two, I still enjoy working for the company, we will move a bit closer. We have lived in our home for about 3 years now, and in about 2 years, it will be time to upgrade in lieu of a recovered market, growing family, and overall desire for an increase in quality of life. The home we have now is what might be called a "starter home". It's a very nice home, but leave something to be desired in the amenities area. That being said, the area that we are looking to move to would cut the commute time down from 60 minutes, to only 20 minutes.

An additional point the hiring manager made clear was that the shift work would not be my own. I manage the team doing the shift work, yes, but my hours are my own to set. So even the 1 hour commute wont be in traffic as I'll likely work something like a 6AM to 3PM shift. This should allow me to miss the traffic jams both ways.

The long and short of all this, If they come back with anything close to my counter offer, I think I'm going to take it. The phenomenal benefits, the hike in pay, the extra learning opportunities, the extra networking capabilities and the potential for "hire-to-retire" are all enough to seal the deal. The only "bad" think I can glean out of this is the commute... And let's face it, given everything there is to gain, why let that stop me?

Here's the Pro and Con list I mentioned earlier:

Pros

Pros

Long Term (5+ Years)
o Known Infrastructure
o Close Drive
o Recognized Performance
o More management than technical
Short Term (< 5 Years)
o Recovering Market
o Fairly Low Stress
o Flexible Schedule
o School friendly
o Tuition Reimbursement
o Cert Reimbursement

Long Term (5+ Years)
o Higher income
o Security clearance
o Huge Advancement Opportunities
o Great Learning Opportunity
§ Federal DC
§ Security array
o Security focused job
o Much better benefits
o Hire to retire
o Fortune 10 company
o Cert reimbursement
Short Term(< 5 Years)
o Smaller team
o Smaller Device Footprint (2K end points)
o Manager as Mentor

Cons

Cons

Long Term (5+ Years)
o Limited Advancement Opportunities
§ Director or VP only
o Large Device Footprint (30K end points)
o Potential IPO insecurities
Short Term (< 5 Years)
o Not actively learning
o Boss is a “dud”
o Small Security Footprint

Long Term (5+ Years)
o None yet?
Short Term (< 5 Years)
o Unfamiliar Infrastructure
o Unfamiliar culture
o Higher workload?
o Longer commute
o More technical than management

buzzkill

Well done etc etc. I would take the new job based on what you've said. Sounds like you're leaning that way also.

I also feel compelled to point out that you have twice used the term "in lieu" incorrectly. It means "instead of" or "in place of".

paul78

Good luck and hopes it works out. Even if they don't accept your proposal, it sounds like a good offer.

JDMurray

CISPhD wrote: »

If they come back with anything close to my counter offer, I think I'm going to take it.

Do you know of anyone at your company that was in the same situation under the same department and took the company's counteroffer? Did any problems result for the employee after that? Usually retaliation (very difficult work assignments, continually passed over for raises/promotions, etc.) because of perceptions of greed, feelings of envy, being rewarded for disloyalty, taking advantage of a situation, etc. are the result of the actions of a specific manager. It would be beneficial to note if this has happened before in your management structure before and what resulted from it.

UnixGuy

CISPhD wrote: »

....
HUGE advancement opportunities
...
Huge learning opportunities from new job duties

..

^^

Take the offer and don't look back.

CISPhD

JDMurray wrote: »

Do you know of anyone at your company ...

Personally, I get concerned when I offer a job to someone who doesn't haggle a LITTLE bit with me. The concept of someone countering an offer suggests, to me at least, that the person knows what they are worth, and knows that what they are bringing to our organization is worth more. Missing the concept of a counter offer might make someone assume that the prospective employee is desperate for anything, and may not be invested in the job so much as they are invested in the pay check. I think a single counter offer is pretty standard, and I've personally never resented a prospective employee for coming back with one. I've also never experienced any type of alternate assignment or retaliation issues from someone I've worked for as a result of making counter offers.

On a final, and very happy note, I got a call back from the company today. They found my counter offer workable, and I've officially accepted the position! I'll be putting in my notice first thing Monday morning. A quick question, does anyone thing it is unacceptable to deliver a resignation first thing Monday morning, and have your last day be Friday of the following week? Given it's first thing Monday morning, I assume it'll be fine, but I'm curious what others think.

Thanks for all the feedback TE team! This is a very exciting time!

ptilsen

New gig sounds better to me. The old one sounds pretty great, too, but the new one seems like a significant improvement even without more money. The commute is a major downside though. To be honest, I don't even look at jobs that would be a longer commute, and in your shoes I probably wouldn't have even interviewed. However, if you're in a position to relocate if it's truly somewhere you're going to stay awhile, then I say go for it. An extra 40 minutes for a year or two is well worth the money alone.

I think it's fine to resign Monday afternoon and end the following Friday. It's still "two weeks" or close enough. I actually gave more than two weeks last time, but the job before that I gave two weeks starting the day I gave notice. That one day is not that important, and even two weeks is only a convention, albeit one I like.

cyberguypr

Congrats!

In regards to the one week resignation, you will get all kinds of answers. Keep in mind that giving notice is a courtesy. I always strive for 2 weeks as there are usually projects to wrap up and knowledge to transfer. However, if there are special circumstances I wouldn't hesitate to do one week. Worst case, they take it personal and mark you as not "rehire". May be difficult to use them as a reference.

Ultimately it's your call. Decide what you can live with.

forestgiant

In my case I actually gave 1 month notice. Once you reached the manager or higher rank there's probably enough business, operations, and technology processes and procedures transfer to keep you busy as you make the transition. However rule of thumb is 2 weeks as every else indicated. As you climb the corporate ladder it gets lonelier at the top so it helps to keep more friends 'cause you never know when you might need them again.