Jobs in NoVA (DC/Maryland/Virginia) region

As someone else has asked about moving to California in another thread, I wanted to get everyone's advice on cybersecurity, information security and assurance, and networking opportunities in the NoVA region. As a Californian I'm used to high taxes, high cost of living, bad traffic, competition for jobs, so I'm really looking for opportunities to balance out the equation. I could deal with the annoyances as long as the job market for infosec is better in DC. Thoughts, anyone?

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Comments

Heny '06

I think all are the same other than the taxes, In Va its better. But other than that its the same. Plenty of well paying jobs, based on your certs you wont have an issue finding work in the DMV area [DC Maryland Virginia]

MiikeB

If you have a clearance the infosec market is amazing. If you dont start looking for any job that will get you one. Mostly likely for a great infosec job you will need TS/SCI but Secret could get you a good IA Manager job.

forestgiant

Has anyone made the cross-country move in either direction? What's your experience like?

Mrock4

As someone who's worked a lot in the DC area (very recently), I would never advise anyone to move there. My colleagues there make comparable salaries to what I make, pay 2x as much for their homes (actually, it's more like 3x), have state/county taxes which are much higher, etc..

That being said, I'm biased here, but the FL area is really growing a LOT with regards to the federal space, and from my perspective, it is going to be exploding in 2013. Not that we don't have issues, we have all the old people..but at least it's warm. Not trying to dissuade you- I am just not a fan of DC at all..but you should also know I can't stand cold weather

That being said, I made the move from Hawaii to FL. I had to take whatever job I could to make ends meet initially, but that didn't last long (a couple of months), then I landed a solid gig and it just got better from there.

forestgiant

I read somewhere that 60% of the world's Internet traffic flows through the Herndon, VA area, so that ought to count for something in our area of expertise and long term job perspectives.

I've visited the NoVA region a dozen times over the past decade, and every trip has been memorable so maybe I'm biased. Like I said earlier, hassles are not a big deal if they're not as bad as southern California, and as long as the job opportunities are there to keep one gainfully employed in infosec.

In the long run I'd like to get an EMBA from a top 30, and it appears only the NoVA area can offer that option while holding down a full time job. The three top EMBA programs in California are Stanford, Berkeley, and UCLA, but I don't see myself living in Los Angeles nor San Jose for numerous reasons.

Mrock4

I'm not knocking your choice of going there, but I've spent a lot of time there too (4 out of the last 6 months I was in Herndon, actually), and there's a lot of other factors to consider..and many of them offset the higher salaries that draw many people to the areas. That's all. That aside, getting your EMBA in the area is definitely a legit reason to go there.

networker050184

I loved the NOVA area, plenty of job oppourtunites, good pay, good area to raise a family.

forestgiant

Mrock4, if you had the time could you please list the specifics? Obviously I take this discussion very seriously because with a family I need to plan and tread very carefully.

forestgiant

networker050184 wrote: »

I loved the NOVA area, plenty of job oppourtunites, good pay, good area to raise a family.

Where in NOVA do you live?

YuckTheFankees

I'm from the Rocky Mountain region and a company just flew me out to the DC/NoVA area this past week. On the second day I was there, I received an offer for the computer forensic consultant position but evetually turned it down later this week because of the cost of living/taxes/traffic.

I loved the area but I couldnt come to grips with the housing prices/traffic/taxes.

Mrock4

forestgiant wrote: »

Mrock4, if you had the time could you please list the specifics? Obviously I take this discussion very seriously because with a family I need to plan and tread very carefully.

Again, I'm NOT saying "don't go there", I'm just saying- if you're attracted to the high pay there, think about other areas too. Here's my biggest issues, and keep in mind..we're all different, so what bothers me may not bother you at all.

-State Taxes
-In addition to state taxes, county taxes.
-Insane traffic (gas money, toll $$..)
-Horrible road conditions quite often (I have 3 kids, so the idea of getting stranded with them, OR in a bad accident, isn't very appealing)
-Reliance upon the gov't for work - I truly enjoy working with most gov't organizations, BUT- I hate the idea that if the gov't has issues, my income is at risk..that's a HUGE risk for someone with a family to take on. I have been around the government for about 8 years now, and have seen about 80 people total (30 in one cut, 10 in another, and soon to be 40 more) lose their jobs OR be told "you need to relocate to stay employed with us".
-Real estate cost is insane- My house cost $221k to build here in florida. In the DC area, a comparable home is $600k+..I don't know how real estate taxes are handled there. You can buy outside of the area a bit, but then the commute becomes hell.

That's about it for me. I DO think the area has plenty of work, and I DO think it's a good place for a family..infact some of the neighborhoods are really nice. The salaries CAN be good (not always, I've been lowballed more than a few times for work in the Herndon/Chantilly areas), but again- you have to weigh the impact of taxes among other things to determine how good the salary really is.

As I said, I honestly don't want to dissuade you if this is a place you and your family want to move, these are only my opinions, and truthfully, it doesn't matter what I think..because I live where I want, and you are free to live where you want, so I hope you'll choose what is ultimately best for you and your family. And for whatever it's worth, if you make the move, feel free to shoot me a PM and I'd be more than happy to check for any openings with my current company since we do a lot of work in the area.

broli720

I live in the nova and I love it. I moved to Reston right out of college last summer and it's a nice place to live. Very safe, very clean, and a 20 min metro ride to DC. Now since I'm a college grad I got an apartment for a pretty good price. I'm paying about 1k for a 1 bedroom a month with utilities included. My complex has bigger and has more luxurious apartments but they are all under 2k. It's 2 mins from my job and 15mins from the closest metro station.

Now if you want to buy a house in this area it can be tricky but if you shop around I'm sure you could find something affordable. Yes it's expensive but the jobs here pay great salaries. I mean really great salaries with great benefits. Add the great schools and scenic and safe environment, I say it's worth it. I'd stick to the Alexandria, Herndon, Reston, and Mclean areas though.

jmritenour

If you're willing to put up with a 45-60 minute commute, you can make a killing in the DC metro area, and live just outside of it for a cheaper cost of living. I've got an hour drive, but my cost of living is dirt cheap compared to my colleagues that live in the area.

WafflesAndRootbeer

The IT market here is not that great unless you are a seasoned professional with a security clearance. There are non-government related IT jobs but they are few and far between and most of it is just outsourced field tech work in the private sector that does not pay enough to live on and has a high turn-over rate.

powerfool

I would be careful considering a move to the greater Washington DC area... I think it is coming close to having its own bubble burst, especially in regards to defense spending. The Pentagon announced 45k in job cuts and traditionally strong contractors are shedding benefits and cutting upper management with talks of reducing labor rates to stay competitive.

higherho

I live in Old Town Alexandria - 1190 a month, all utilities included making low 80's. Yes rent is high (and really high if you want to move into those fancy places :0) but your in an area where you will never be bored and a lot of people here rent out rooms. Cyber security is never going to get cut from the government and they have a lot of fat to trim.

Just like Waffles said If you do not have a clearance then your choices shrink a lot. I've been offered Sys admin jobs here from Law firms and what not but the competition increases ALOT and not many positions that do not require a gov clearance.

EDIT

Roads are bad - in terms of heavy traffic. I elect metro for a majority of my DC travels. I work outside of DC so going to work actually isn't bad for me because a lot of the people come in from MD to DC

but during bad weather it can be bad. Car tax (Virginia), State tax, etc is a little higher but MUCH better than CA or NY.

Houses are pretty expensive mainly because of the locations. In Chantilly VA I can get a house for 250k (3 bed, 3.5 bath etc) but for that same house lets say in National Harbor, MD (close to Old town Alexandria too) I'm going to be paying 560k. My wife and I moved down here from PA and were having a blast because theirs so much to do. During the winter they close everything if theres 2 inches of snow on the ground

Thats because no one in this area can drive haha

higherho

I just took notice to your certs. You can easily bring in 110K here and I know people making that with less creds than you.

spiderjericho

My military experience has taken me from CA to VA to FL in the last two years.

First, I'm definitely confused by the NoVA. I've heard it called the DMV or NCR.

And there's definitely a lot of GS and contracting jobs in the area. They're not going anywhere due to national security and the growing cyber war. Things might become more competitive with prospective needing more experience, education/sought after certs.

If the company desires you, they'll pay for the security clearance/investigation. With your credentials, you'd definitely qualify for Infosec/IA/Security. You've got multiple IAM level 3 and level 2 certifications.

I lived in the Stafford area and knew plenty of people who commuted to Northern VA, D.C. Or Maryland. The more southern or northern you go, the cheaper the real estate.

If I got out, I could've qualified for a 6-figure easily and with your credentials so can you, especially if you're contracting.

forestgiant

Thanks, all. There's a lot of useful and practical information here and the negatives mentioned so far are not far from my 20+ years living in southern california. In many cases NoVA appears better suited for a young family and my infosec career than SoCal, so I'm going to put my targeted applications out there and gauge the market.

Challenges I foresee are getting clearance and convincing employers for pay (or help pay) for the cross country move. I'm gonna make this post a blog of my job search in NoVA. Of particular interest is the Pentagon's cut that Powerfool mentioned, but so far the cuts are in military support and civilian posts, which I think do not include cyber security. The President and his cabinet members have cautioned against cutting national infrastructure defense and increasing funding for information assurance. While nothing is for sure, I do have confidence that cyber security efforts will gain both political and budget traction in the coming months.

spiderjericho

A few considerations are the weather. Last summer was rough in North Virginia and then there's obviously the winter. As far as California, the taxes, gas and price of real estate there is really high. The IT job market is pretty decent there though, obviously, lol. And if you were interested in getting your foot into the government, you could do so there (San Diego, 29 Palms, Oceanside, Barstow, etc).

They will pay for your clearances if they WANT you. There is no question. We have people here who are worth green poo poo getting hired and getting TS/SCI.

And trust me, there are a multitude of IT jobs in that area. The well will never dry up. And if you look at current events, the Cyber Security workforce will only increase, especially with Iran, China, Russia, criminal rings and other cyber cells out there. The face of warfare is changing.

Just remember contracting jobs pay higher than GS jobs. GS jobs are for long-term security. I do know GS will pay for moves.

forestgiant

I live in San Diego, zip code 9212x (where x is between 1 and 9). CNN Cost of Living calculator lays it out as follow:

Assuming one makes $50K in San Diego:

Price difference in Washington-Arlington-Alexandria, DC-VA
Groceries 4%more
Housing 28%more
Utilities 8%less
Transportation 3%less
Health Care 10%less

So on average NoVA is about 14% more expensive. However, I've lived in Los Angeles (12% difference) and San Jose (-8% difference), so I consider financial variations of <20% to be tolerable. The key differences are job opportunities and quality of life.

WRT to some of the other issues, here's my subjective take:
gas: SoCal is definitely more expensive than NoVA
traffic: SoCal is worst or equal to NoVA on most week days
public transportation: NoVA wins. Public transportation in California is always a work in progress, but never there
housing: about the same, cost and quality
entertainment: NoVA
education: NoVA (I'm a product of UCSD, and alumni association is weak)
weather: this one's a toss up. Love the sunshine, but Santa ana winds suck.

So it comes down to two different but comparable places, and while I love San Diego, with a few exceptions (Websense, Qualcomm, Viasat, etc...) it's not exactly known for cyber security. As I stated earlier, my long term goal includes an EMBA from top 30, so that alone automatically eliminates San Diego, and while I haven't made up my mind yet, the case for NoVA just keep getting stronger and stronger.

spiderjericho

I wouldn't live in the places you mentioned. Like I said, I lived in Stafford and it wasn't bad. I was RENTING a three bed room apartment for $1,100 and had no issues making ends meet. Course, there is a cost of living related housing allowance factored into my salary. But I would've probably done better residentially speaking if I bought a place.

The more South and North you go, the cheaper the housing becomes. The trade off is the commute to wherever it is you're working. But, personally, I don't mind driving far for a nicer, inexpensive house. And as you become more well established, you can move to a closer home.

Just realize the machine you're going to become a part of. Politics, some substandard coworkers, the slow pace of the government process (take a look at the fiscal cliff), but this is b.s. associated with any job.

If you're looking for government jobs, there is usajobs. Contracting, there is General Dynamics, Verizon, AT&T, Raytheon, SIAC, Northrop Gruman, Lockheed Martin, HP, L3, Harris, etc.

If you get your MBA, it'll take you further. However, you shouldn't have a problem qualifying for a GS13 or a X00,000 contracting job. I know plenty of servicemembers who transitioned to working in the area and doing very well.

powerfool

higherho wrote: »

I live in Old Town Alexandria - 1190 a month, all utilities included making low 80's. Yes rent is high (and really high if you want to move into those fancy places :0) but your in an area where you will never be bored and a lot of people here rent out rooms. Cyber security is never going to get cut from the government and they have a lot of fat to trim.

Never is a pretty definitive word that I would be extremely careful to use. The requirements for Cybersecurity will not likely go away... but the funding can certainly dry up. Over the years, there have been plenty of unfunded mandates. Plus, if word gets around the DoD the job that one contractor is performing for a specific agency with its limited resources, you can imagine funding is going to get cut. Let me put it to you in numbers... the agency spends 1/3 the average by headcount on cybersecurity, yet it consistently gets among the highest audit rating for CCRI, DISA, and FISCAM. If that gets out, funding will be cut.

Mrock4

Yes, I've done a LOT of gov't work, and I would agree with the gentleman who said something about the DC bubble bursting sooner or later. It's already starting. An agency I worked for in the past has put out a mandate to cut 15% of their contractor workforce over the next 5 years already..and that's just the beginning. That 15% equates to thousands of workers. The new MOS the Army has put out (cybersecurity?) is another flag that they're trying to offload the work to more of the military, most likely due to the huge cost savings.

I don't think the work is going to leave ever, but I do think it'll start drying up quite a bit.

spiderjericho

You guys are trying to scare him. I say put a feeler out to see the jobs out there. Don't purchase an expensive house in an expensive area to reduce some of the risk.

Is the government going to cut back on spending at the moment, yes? The writing is on the wall. But the demand for jobs in infosec will still be there. And I can't speak for his experience but he definitely sticks out more than other infosec applicants I've met.

And Mrock, I think the quality of soldiers/sailors/Marines/airmen in these positions will be low or the turnover will be high. No one is going to want to work someplace doing the same work as a civilian or contractor who is making twice their salary. I saw it a lot in Virginia. I wouldn't be surprised if the retention rate of a NOC service member were 25/35%.

Mrock4

I'm not trying to scare him at all man, just stating the facts..I guess I'm also just BS'ing with others too. I would want to know the facts too. I do agree the quality of mil members in those positions will be low, but the gov't doesn't always care about quality..it's about the lowest cost these days.

And I'm talking to him on LinkedIn about opportunities in NOVA with my company, so hopefully it all works out for him.

powerfool

I'm not trying to scare anyone; I am trying to inform. It is like when the Spaniards thought the New World was paved in gold... I wouldn't want him to pack up his life and move out to DC and have it not be what he was expecting. A few years ago, everything looked to be on an ever growing upward trend... the the "balanced budgets" of the late 90s and the "surplus" were all based on the economy never slowing down, and it certainly happened. Whenever some place gets too hot, it burns out all of its fuel. And while I am a government contractor and that is how my bread is buttered, I am more upset with the massive spending. While I would prefer cuts to be directed to the areas that are really at fault, military spending is high (even if it can be seemingly be justified). That being said, just by drawing down conflicts, spending should decrease without any other changes since reservists won't be relied upon as heavily... you don't have to decrease your enlisted ranks or anything else.

Of course, this is just a web forum... we aren't going to convince a bunch of politicians of anything on here.

Mrock4

Spending could REALLY decrease if there were incentives for units/organizations that did NOT spend all of their budgeted money at the end of the fiscal year....those gov't workers know what I'm talking about

higherho

powerfool wrote: »

Never is a pretty definitive word that I would be extremely careful to use. The requirements for Cybersecurity will not likely go away... but the funding can certainly dry up. Over the years, there have been plenty of unfunded mandates. Plus, if word gets around the DoD the job that one contractor is performing for a specific agency with its limited resources, you can imagine funding is going to get cut. Let me put it to you in numbers... the agency spends 1/3 the average by headcount on cybersecurity, yet it consistently gets among the highest audit rating for CCRI, DISA, and FISCAM. If that gets out, funding will be cut.

This is true and I agree with you. I should have worded my statement better. I just think its going to be harder for them to cut technical people in the Infosec world within DISA.

spiderjericho

powerfool wrote: »

That being said, just by drawing down conflicts, spending should decrease without any other changes since reservists won't be relied upon as heavily... you don't have to decrease your enlisted ranks or anything.

Well since we're being honest, the government is reducing troop numbers so the budget cuts are real. Speaking from my service, they're cutting 20,000. The Army is cutting 80,000. So that's 100K right there not counting the Navy and Air Force who I'm not sure what their reduction numbers are. Throw in the possible cutting of government service employees (which i think is a good thing) and it's definitely not a great time, but he seems to have credentials that make him competitive against a lot of new hires. If he had a master's, it would probably be better.

So I hope he takes a pragmatic and careful approach to deciding whether to move his family across the country. It's why I mentioned not moving to Arlington, D.C., etc and instead one of the outlying, cheaper counties.