Advice for Army NG Soldier finding work in IT

crnoller1

I enlisted into the Army National Guard, and I am currently in AIT at Fort Gordon for the 25B MOS (IT Specialist). I have a year of college that I did before I joined and was wondering what would be the best path to take to obtain an entry level IT job. Should I get my certifications (A+, Net+, Sec+, CCNA) ASAP after I am done AIT, or should I use the Guard benefits to back to school and get my Bachelors degree. I would probably either study Computer Science or Electrical Engineering, as they are the degree programs that are most relevant to IT in my area. Thanks in advance.

purpnexnex

Haven't been back to Gordon in a while, but my recommendation would be to talk with your AIT Instructors there at the schoolhouse about sitting in on an A+,N+,or S+ exam. Most installations have agreements with Pearson Vue as a testing center. However, it usually comes down to who is willing to pay for your voucher and since you are in student status whether AIT will cover it or perhaps your Guard unit may be willing to. Other option is GI Bill/TA. On the active duty side, it is a requirement for a 25B help desk technician to have a baseline (A+/N+ etc) and OS (linux, win7, etc) to perform their job function. My advice, go the extra step to get certified while all that knowledge is fresh. For Security+, Darril Gibson book is a weekend read and should prepare you along with your current studies for the test and complement your college coursework.

lmoworld

Any certification/schooling you complete now will benefit you in the log run. You can check on the Army's Credentialing Opportunity On-Line website (Army COOL) to see which certifications translates into your structured MOS. GOARMYED is also available to the National Guard. It pays 4500 every fiscal year in Tuition Assistance if you don't want to use your GI Bill.

-lmoworld <---- (Active Duty Cable Dawg)

crnoller1

I asked the instructors and they said that I should "focus on just becoming a 25B first since the course is hard enough already", and trying to obtain certs during AIT wasn't recommended. So I'll try and obtain the certs shortly after AIT. As far as what to study in college, would you guys recommend studying Computer Science or Electrical Engineering. There no IT programs in my area that would be covered under the guard tuition waver, but those curriculums are, and I prefer to study something math intensive anyway.

JockVSJock

Get your Security+, for sure.

That will get on your ERB and 10 promotion points.

A+ and Network+ will also get your promotion points, but that is about it. Won't help you get a better job on in the private sector.

Think long term, like CCNA, OSCP or RedHat Certs.

lmoworld

You would have to look into the curriculum of each program and see for yourself. Your instructors don't want to set you up for failure, so it makes since to focus on the school house related course. If you would like to read up on anything IT related you can go on AKO and under education they have a program called skillport. I'm not a fan of there skillport training lesson, but the cool thing about using skillport is that you can sign up and receive books24x7 for free. Books24x7 offers a ton of IT related books you can read (online only) for free. Not all IT related books are readily available through the website, but they do offer books like A+, Security+, Linux+, etc. FedVTE (google /bing the website) is also offered to all federal and military personnel. FEDvte offers virtual training in IT. Hope this helps you out.

-lmoworld

crnoller1

I may try and at least get Sec+ while I am here and pay out of pocket since they allow MOS-T soldiers to get vouchers if they get a high enough grade in the class (me being MOS-I I should at least be able to take it if I pay).

As far as getting an entry level IT job after AIT, what would be the main certs I should obtain (for help desk since that is what read is the entry point in IT). Would my AIT training alone warrant me enough to secure a job? Are there any other 25B guard soldiers on here that know what would be best for me after AIT as far as schooling or work? I only ask this because active duty 25B get work experience while active duty while my drill weekends won't count towards IT work experience.

And yes I am getting as much skill port done as I can.

ltj8765

This may be a little off topic in regards to your question and some of the above responses, but you are in a very unique position as a National Guard reservist. Check the usajobs.gov database for IT positions You will find there are hundreds of positions open and there are many that require National Guard membership. Being that you are an active duty reservist, I think you also have a hiring VEOA preference. You may need to start out at around a GS7 or GS9 position, but over time you will move up. In addition, almost all government positions will provide educational reimbursement. If you can get a security clearance, you can get even better positions with higher pay.

Just an idea and maybe something to look into if you have not already?

lmoworld

I definitely agree with Itj8765. I work with 25B and they definitely said to obtain A+ at least. Most federal helpdesk position requires A+. You can use USAJOBS to see what is required for a GS7/GS9 position. As far as security clearances goes, you should have one. I believe it is a requirement of the 25B MOS. That is a big plus when looking for a job. I haven't came across any other Bravo on this website yet, but hopefully others on here can definitely give you more information

ltj8765

Another point to remember about federal positions is that when you are applying for a GS7 or GS9 position, etc., it is not so much about experience as about how you score on your qualifications. It is hard to explain, but for almost all federal positions GS11 and below, you will be hired based on category and score. Highest category for hiring are 30% or higher disabled veterans. Next is 10 or greater but less then 30 percent disabled veterans. After that it is VEOA (Active Duty and honorably discharged veterans). Being in any veteran category gives you "preference points" that are added to what ever score they give you based on your responses to the application. All federal positions base there hiring and interviews on a scoring system.

What does all this mean??? Everything gets you points. The more certs, the more points. Then you get points for your veterans preference. How this works is if you apply for the position and another non veteran applies for the position, you will be hired first as you are a higher hiring preference. If you apply and another veteran applies and you both are at the same preference level, then the one with more points will be hired. It is as simple as that! The interviews are more a formality to make sure you understand the position and accept it as they are mandated to higher based on preference and score.

There are entire books written about this but the basic thing to know is that you are in a higher category then most applicants and having certs gives higher scores. As mentioned, it is not so much on experience as it is getting your ticket punched (certifications) and preference.

purpnexnex

Having the cert would give you a good lead since A+/N+/S+ is easily understood by industry and gives a better understanding for future certs such as CCNA, etc. While your skillport lessons are valuable and can be documented, may not be quite the same to a potential employer. some of our active duty 25B are catching up while they are ETSing and just starting A+ when they really already have the knowledge to have done CCNA.

SteveLord

If I am not mistaken, the Guard will reimburse you certification costs up to a certain amount every year. Especially if it's related to your MOS. Contact your state's education officer.

ltj8765 wrote: »

This may be a little off topic in regards to your question and some of the above responses, but you are in a very unique position as a National Guard reservist. Check the usajobs.gov database for IT positions You will find there are hundreds of positions open and there are many that require National Guard membership. Being that you are an active duty reservist, I think you also have a hiring VEOA preference. You may need to start out at around a GS7 or GS9 position, but over time you will move up. In addition, almost all government positions will provide educational reimbursement. If you can get a security clearance, you can get even better positions with higher pay.

Just an idea and maybe something to look into if you have not already?

These are federal technician positions. They are limited and extremely competitive. You would have to be out of your mind to think they would easily hire someone fresh out of AIT. The "active duty reservist" label means nothing. He is in training. He gets no "preference" because every other guy applying will also be a Guardsman.

ltj8765

SteveLord, I have to disagree with you. Yes, they are competitive, but that is not a reason to not apply. There are a lot of IT jobs open and veterans preference DOES make a difference! It is not the active duty reservist label that makes a difference...it is THE VETERANS PREFERENCE that makes a difference. Now, I am not sure if this person can claim a preference? If he can, then he would be out of his mind to not apply!


What a negative attitude towards advancing ones career...The only people that never get the positions are the ones that never apply! I will never tell someone to not try at something just because it might be too "competitive!"

spicy ahi

crnoller1 - shoot me your email in a pm and I'll help you as best I can. I've helped a few 25B's and 25U's transition to civilian life (and most of them went AD to guard/reserve on my advice) I'm always willing to help another motivated soldier.

SteveLord

ltj8765 wrote: »

SteveLord, I have to disagree with you. Yes, they are competitive, but that is not a reason to not apply. There are a lot of IT jobs open and veterans preference DOES make a difference! It is not the active duty reservist label that makes a difference...it is THE VETERANS PREFERENCE that makes a difference. Now, I am not sure if this person can claim a preference? If he can, then he would be out of his mind to not apply!


What a negative attitude towards advancing ones career...The only people that never get the positions are the ones that never apply! I will never tell someone to not try at something just because it might be too "competitive!"

You are giving misleading information on those particular jobs, which is not beneficial to the OP. Technician jobs almost always require the applicant to already be a member of the Guard. So your "preference" tactic makes no difference because EVERYONE APPLYING IS ALREADY A SERVICE MEMBER.

The OP is not a veteran. Veteran status is defined a little differently depending on where you are. But it usually means the individual has to have served on active duty for a certain period of time and discharged from it. That is NOT including their initial training.

I never said not to apply. You just didn't give enough information or gave more misleading information. Let's actually be realistic when we recommend career options though. Otherwise, you might as well be his recruiter.

ltj8765

SteveLord: Fair enough and I see your point and agree with most of what you say. The problem is that you missed the entire point of my OP. I was never talking about Guard IT jobs only. Usajobs is more then just DOD, it is the entire federal government. Thus, I was not being misleading as I was simply informing other places to consider and federal employment is a good option "if" one has veteran preference. Even without veteran preferance, one can still find federal employment in the IT field and there are lower entry level type positions avialble. Basically, I am saying look at the forest and you are saying look at the trees. Neither of us is wrong. Thus, I would appreciate it if you would refrain for stating that the information I am providing is misleading.

Yes, I know exactly what it takes to claim veterans preference. I am a 10 point preference veteran, but at my level it does not really do me much good other then give me the extra points and throw me into a higher category.

TheCudder

crnoller1 wrote: »

I asked the instructors and they said that I should "focus on just becoming a 25B first since the course is hard enough already"....

That's hilarious. I was there in 2004 and was the easiest thing ever. But I was already into computers prior.

ltj8765 wrote: »

This may be a little off topic in regards to your question and some of the above responses, but you are in a very unique position as a National Guard reservist. Check the usajobs.gov database for IT positions You will find there are hundreds of positions open and there are many that require National Guard membership. Being that you are an active duty reservist, I think you also have a hiring VEOA preference. You may need to start out at around a GS7 or GS9 position, but over time you will move up. In addition, almost all government positions will provide educational reimbursement. If you can get a security clearance, you can get even better positions with higher pay.

Just an idea and maybe something to look into if you have not already?

I wouldn't bother applying for anything on USAJobs unless you know the right person or if its something within the unit you're going to be assigned to. I've been trying to get in for years. I've been in the Reserves for 9 years , I have one OIF deployment, BS in IT Management, A+ & S+. The gov't hiring process is a joke. 9 times out of 10 the hiring manager knows who they're going to higher before the posting even goes to USAJobs. I'm currently a gov't contractor with NGC? I'd recommend getting S+ as soon as possible and looking into Defense contractor positions when you complete AIT.

SteveLord wrote: »

If I am not mistaken, the Guard will reimburse you certification costs up to a certain amount every year. Especially if it's related to your MOS. Contact your state's education officer.

These are federal technician positions. They are limited and extremely competitive. You would have to be out of your mind to think they would easily hire someone fresh out of AIT. The "active duty reservist" label means nothing. He is in training. He gets no "preference" because every other guy applying will also be a Guardsman.

Correct, you can take pre-approved Cert exams (pass or fail) and they'll reimburse you if you submit the paperwork. +1 on the limited and extemely competitive part, this is basically what I was saying in reply to ltj8765

coty24

If you love IT and have a clue 25B school isn't hard; are you IET or prior? That makes the difference on what other work you can do.

coty24

JockVSJock wrote: »

Get your Security+, for sure.

That will get on your ERB and 10 promotion points.

A+ and Network+ will also get your promotion points, but that is about it. Won't help you get a better job on in the private sector.


Think long term, like CCNA, OSCP or RedHat Certs.

National guard in my experience doesn't know how to apply the points to your 4100 (promotion sheet). I showed my S1 the milper message and they were dumbfounded....

ltj8765

crnoller1: I know there have been a lot of messages back and forth in response to your questions, and while some may say one thing and others say another, ultimately it comes down to what you are looking for. I would take up the offer of help from spicy ahi. People like him (spicy ahi) are few and I applaud him for helping people like you. That is a valuable resource that is worth much! For the rest of us, it is just advice and no advice is really bad advice, it must simply be weighed for what you want and where you want to go.

My point is this…you are always going to hear reasons why you should not do something or why something is a waste of time when you seek advice from others. On the same note, you are also going to hear encouragement and ideas on other options. However, always believe in yourself and your goals and weigh the advice for what it is. No goal is ever too high if you believe in yourself! Set your sights on where you want to be and then do what you need to do to get there. Never quit and always be persistent. You will never be disappointed in what you achieve or yourself.

Good Luck

crnoller1

Yea the G7/G9 jobs required a couple years experience anyway so that is out of my league...

Since certs are the key to obtaining an entry level job, my main concern is what to study in college. I want to study a technical degree like CS or EE and I want to see if anyone on this board did it before and what the outcome was.

And how do you PM someone? Lol I can't get into my inbox and there's no send message feature anywhere.

Mrock4

My $.02 is that your major in college is almost irrelevant in this field. Many people have history, music, business degrees- often in this field just having a degree is enough, RARELY do they want a specific major. To add to that, many colleges have less than impressive IT curriculums (with regards to networking/systems admin type stuff..there's always a CS major as you mentioned). Honestly, I'd pursue whatever you're interested in at your school of choice- take some electives related to this field, and focus on your certifications and gaining hands-on experience.

I concur with the above poster with regards to 25B school. I went there in 2005, and it was a joke. I found the lack of technical schooling disappointing..more pressure was on instructors to just rush everyone through, so whether you understood it or not you were moving forward (as long as you didn't screw up outside of the classroom). That being said, I'm not sure I'd try to TAKE an exam while in AIT, but I'd definitely grab a book and start studying for one.

ltj8765

Mrock4 wrote: »

Honestly, I'd pursue whatever you're interested in at your school of choice- take some electives related to this field, and focus on your certifications and gaining hands-on experience.

This is good advice (by Mrock4) and that is great that you want to continue in college!! If you are on the fence between a CS degree and an EE degree, I would take the EE degree route unless you really like to write code, which then take the CS route. Either one is great, but I really believe the EE will open more opportunity for you later then the CS route. If I could go back and do things again...which I cannot and I am happy with my choices...I would have taken the EE route instead of CIS/CS based on what I have learned over the years.

crnoller1

Why do you think EE is better? Better job prospects/pay? More interesting?

JockVSJock

coty24 wrote: »

National guard in my experience doesn't know how to apply the points to your 4100 (promotion sheet). I showed my S1 the milper message and they were dumbfounded....

That's all you needed to say...Nasty Girls...aka..."National Guard."

instant000

Mrock4 wrote: »

I concur with the above poster with regards to 25B school. I went there in 2005, and it was a joke.

Mrock:

You say you went there in 2005? Did you get out in 2011? When I served, I had to go for a MINIMUM of 6 years, and got out in '06.

We need to talk ...

instant000

crnoller1 wrote: »

I enlisted into the Army National Guard, and I am currently in AIT at Fort Gordon for the 25B MOS (IT Specialist).

You chose the second best MOS in the Army. #1 would be the Warrant version
25B, HOOAH!

I have a year of college that I did before I joined and was wondering what would be the best path to take to obtain an entry level IT job. Should I get my certifications (A+, Net+, Sec+, CCNA) ASAP after I am done AIT

In my opinion, you can get your A+ and Security+ NOW, while you are still in AIT. You have plenty of time to study, and based on your already having a year of schooling, and currently being in this MOS, you should have the aptitude to clear those two in quick fashion. After that, you are advised to start studying for your CCNA. I don't know what access you have to labs while there (when I was in, we lived in dorms, so much of what you did was restricted), so until you can lab, you could read up on theoretical books in your abundant free time to keep your mind up-to-speed. (You get more free time, later in the program.)

or should I use the Guard benefits to back to school and get my Bachelors degree. I would probably either study Computer Science or Electrical Engineering, as they are the degree programs that are most relevant to IT in my area. Thanks in advance.

Yes, you should also use your Guard benefits to go to school. If you're desiring to get a Computer Science degree, then go for it. I'm not going to tell you what not to study.

EDIT: You can still pursue certs while going to school.

Also, the sooner you start a job and pile up the work experience, the better. Don't forget that there are many school options out there that don't lock you into a certain geography. Of course, that depends on how much you value flexibility.

Mrock4

Joined in 04', did basic/AIT..then in 05' went to my second AIT. Got out in 2011. Total time served about 6 1/2 yrs'ish (actually a bit more but I could care less about the specifics).

ltj8765

crnoller1 wrote: »

Why do you think EE is better? Better job prospects/pay? More interesting?

Hi and sorry for being a little slow to respond back to you. To answer your question, I will need to provide a little background. I started my career in Bell Laboratories back when it was still one big Bell Labs and was the place to work if one wanted to get into the latest technology, etc. After about 4 years in the Labs, I progressed into building large fiber optic networks all over the world and now work in engineering and operations for these same types of networks. I can honestly say that back from the time I was in Bell Labs to the present, almost all of the people I have worked with have an EE for the undergrad work and many of them had the ME in EE. Yes, there were the CS majors, but CS people simply wrote code. Eventually, some would move into project management, but it was a PM over a application development project, etc. The ones who really got into the cool stuff were all EE people.

I do not think one degree is better then the other, but I think the EE degree will for sure allow you to take more diverse routes in your career. Some may disagree with me on this, but a CS degree takes you down one path and you pretty much stay on that. People with EE as a background can do programing as well as other things besides just programming. Basically said, a person with an EE can also write code, but a person with a CS degree will usually only write code. If that makes sense?

I know some here will probably disagree with me, and that is fine. However, I can personally say that the EE degree provides much more in the way of options and growth in your career.

Mrock4

ltj8765 - I just have to say, you're definitely dating yourself when you speak of Bell Labs! It sounds like you've done a lot there, so that's awesome, just had to point that out

spicy ahi

I agree with this! EE is more versatile in the sense that there are many other job types (engineering firms, architecture firms, etc.) that accept this degree in lieu of. If you're looking for something a little more diverse, then EE is your best bet. Of course, the lower level curriculum for both EE and CS is similar enough for many colleges where you could easily minor in CS and major in EE. Just a thought if you want to cover all the bases. Of course, if you're truly a masochist you could double major.

ltj8765 wrote: »

Hi and sorry for being a little slow to respond back to you. To answer your question, I will need to provide a little background. I started my career in Bell Laboratories back when it was still one big Bell Labs and was the place to work if one wanted to get into the latest technology, etc. After about 4 years in the Labs, I progressed into building large fiber optic networks all over the world and now work in engineering and operations for these same types of networks. I can honestly say that back from the time I was in Bell Labs to the present, almost all of the people I have worked with have an EE for the undergrad work and many of them had the ME in EE. Yes, there were the CS majors, but CS people simply wrote code. Eventually, some would move into project management, but it was a PM over a application development project, etc. The ones who really got into the cool stuff were all EE people.

I do not think one degree is better then the other, but I think the EE degree will for sure allow you to take more diverse routes in your career. Some may disagree with me on this, but a CS degree takes you down one path and you pretty much stay on that. People with EE as a background can do programing as well as other things besides just programming. Basically said, a person with an EE can also write code, but a person with a CS degree will usually only write code. If that makes sense?

I know some here will probably disagree with me, and that is fine. However, I can personally say that the EE degree provides much more in the way of options and growth in your career.