Degree or Experience...Location of degree

kylepossible

I had two questions and I think here's a good place to post them.

When it comes to getting an above entry level IT job..

What is more important experience or a degree?

Will not having a degree hurt you in the long run? As in you can only go up so much in the ladder without a degree.

Are online computer science degrees worth it, does where you got it from matter when it comes to online degrees or will all online degrees be put on the same level as say a community college degree?

Thanks.

paul78

I don't have a degree so I would like to think that it hasn't limited my opportunities.

But that said, if you are relatively young and you have the opportunity to do so - get your degree.

ptilsen

We have variations of this conversation all the time. However, the great majority of us will agree that given a binary choice between a degree and experience, experience is vastly more important. I will hire you to do a job you've already proven you can do before I will hire you to do one you might have sufficient education to do or figure out how to do.

Now, moving beyond that rather unrealistic choice, a degree can help a lot. How much is up for debate, but a lot of jobs and even lines of work require it or essentially require it. I tend to think it will help for most jobs, and most ads I've seen at least list one as "desired," at all career levels.

Online is a factor, school is a factor, and what type of degree it is is a factor. Whether or not a degree is "worth it" can be complicated. Once again, some advice most of us agree on:
1. Regional accreditation is one of, if not the biggest factors in a school's valuation. Taking two non-traditional schools, ITT and WGU, for example. WGU is the clear winner in terms of reputation for that reason.
2. Computer Science, Electrical Engineering, and similarly titled degrees have the best reputation and provide the best overall education. However, they provide relatively little in the way of immediate practical skills for an IT infrastructure professional. CIS, IT, and similar skill-oriented degrees are not necessarily the wrong choice, but if you have the capacity and opportunity for Computer Science it may be worth any extra work and even money.
3. Online degrees have a stigma, but it is not universal. Just as no having a degree can hurt, it doesn't have to be a barrier. Overall, online is better than no degree.
4. School reputation can also transcend format and accreditation (online vs B&M). University of Phoenix is not going to look as good as Anywhere State University, and Almost Anywhere State University is usually not as good as Big-Land-Grant University of Almost Any State. Once again, what school you go to doesn't need to be a barrier in your career, but that isn't to say more prestige doesn't potentially add resume value or even legitimate education value. I would say there is a diminishing return as you get to more prestigious and expensive education. The value of getting your BS in Computer Science from Anywhere State University is going to be a bigger gap over ITT Technical Institute than University of Any State is over Anywhere State University. (ITT is a potent example because it is more expensive than some of the most prestigious state universities, yet provides less value than the cheaper state universities)
5. Bachelors is three times the work of Associates and thirty times the value. Answering your specific question, an online bachelors degree from a regionally school is definitely going to be better than any tech-related associates degree from a community college. Nothing is wrong with CCs, and in many cases they are the best way to get all your freshman and sophomore credits, but that should be the only reason you go there. An online BS in CS is way better than any two-year degree.

Getting back to the question of entry-level specifically, the "choice" of experience and degree again doesn't make sense. A truly entry level job cannot require real experience. You can do volunteer and side work, but if it's entry level it would by definition be your first career-relevant job. Of course, the reality is that many entry-level job ads do ask for and even require experience, which is a silly catch-22 that many employers play (often to their own disadvantage).

Ultimately, I will always argue that any early-to-mid career experience you get is ultimately more valuable on its own than any undergraduate degree, and even most graduate degrees. At the end of the day, if you want to truly work in infrastructure, a four-year degree won't get you far above helpdesk. You definitely don't need a four-year degree to get started in helpdesk (an A+ and HS diploma will do), so from that standpoint the degree is not necessarily valuable. Long-term, however, a bachelor's degree can unlock opportunities and even expand earning potential.

Edit: I have to add that I would look at local options if you really want computer science, specifically. I have not seen many (any?) reputable online CS degrees, and there can be a big boost if you're going to stay local. Once you go online, the chances of name recognition go down. Local employers are most likely to look favorably on local, state institutions.

paul78

ptilsen wrote: »

However, the great majority of us will agree that given a binary choice between a degree and experience, experience is vastly more important.

I think that the distinction in most of our conversations about this topic though is that to an employer - having experience is more valuable than the degree. But if it's a choice of whether someone should forgo getting a degree over starting full-time-employment to gain experience, I would still fall on the side that it's better to get the degree if possible.

kylepossible

Thanks that was very helpful and informative! I think if i was to go the online route i'd stray away from devry,phoenix and ITT. University of Illinois has an online CS degree program not sure how respected it is.(University of Illinois Bachelor Degree in Computer Science Online)

Another question for the most part are CS>IT/IS Degrees? As far as salary?

ptilsen

Oh, I do agree with you there, and I don't mean to convey otherwise. If I went back in time, I would have gone to a university (or CC, then university) right out of high school. I question if my early-twenties outcome would have been better, but I think my long-term outcome would have. Going to school while employed full-time, especially traditional B&M school, is hard. If one has the opportunity to attend school full-time and work part-time or not work at all, I think it is the right choice long-term. On the other hand, someone making ends meet on a single-digit hourly wage with the capacity to study entry-level IT skills and get a job that nearly (or actually) doubles that wage would be hard-pressed to choose the delayed-gratification of college.

Really, though, what I wanted to get at is that it's almost never a binary choice. Frankly, I think anyone under 45 in this field (an arbitrary number not meant to dissuade those even older) could see value from even a WGU bachelors, no matter how many years of experience. So even if one forgoes a degree early on, going back isn't impossible.

paul78

ptilsen wrote: »

Frankly, I think anyone under 45 in this field (an arbitrary number not meant to dissuade those even older) could see value from even a WGU bachelors, no matter how many years of experience. So even if one forgoes a degree early on, going back isn't impossible.

Absolutely agree. I didn't know about WGU's existence until I started hanging out at this forum last year. I have to admit that my perspective about online schools have changed significantly since then.

The tough part about the WGU curriculum though, is that its geared at people with limited IT experience. So the effort to get low-level certs which are likely meaningless is a tough one to justify for people with 10 to 20 years of IT experience.

Everyone

kylepossible wrote: »

Thanks that was very helpful and informative! I think if i was to go the online route i'd stray away from devry,phoenix and ITT. University of Illinois has an online CS degree program not sure how respected it is.(University of Illinois Bachelor Degree in Computer Science Online)

Another question for the most part are CS>IT/IS Degrees? As far as salary?

University of Illinois is very respectable, but I may be a little bit biased... I live in and am from Illinois, and this college is one of my customers.

IMHO traditional CS degrees are geared more for programming/developing. So comparing CS to IT/IS is apples to oranges.

I'll also ad that I am one of those that don't have a degree. That being said, I've had a very non-traditional career path, and my results aren't typical.

BigMevy

Another consideration in the decision to get or not get a degree is that many companies are making it a requirement to being considered now. My company just changed their policy at the end of the year, even deskside support jobs will require a bachelors moving forward.

instant000

BigMevy wrote: »

Another consideration in the decision to get or not get a degree is that many companies are making it a requirement to being considered now. My company just changed their policy at the end of the year, even deskside support jobs will require a bachelors moving forward.

That's kinda horrible, if you think about it.

It was 2010 before I got my bachelor's. I'd hate to think that I wasn't qualified to do IT grunt work for the first ten years of my career!