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Lots of issues raised and a lot of poor decisions all around, hopefully there will be some positive outcomes to offset the negative ones:

How “dongle” jokes got two people fired

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VAHokie56

That is just a bunch of drama...the chick who started it all needs to get off her high horse imo.

Iristheangel

If every guy in the tech field who made a pervy joke was fired, there wouldn't be anyone left in the industry

I would definitely be out a job :P

VAHokie56

Iristheangel wrote: »

If every guy in the tech field who made a pervy joke was fired, there wouldn't be anyone left in the industry

I would definitely be out a job :P

Seriously... and they where not even in the office!

t3ch_guru

It's funny, I had kind of a crush for this lady. I read her blog a little a few months back. It's unfortunate to hear that someone lost their job for making a few inappropriate comments at a conference. We have women employees in my department. If they ever complained about the things we say, I don't think any of us would have jobs.

tpatt100

I think this is a terrible example of sexism. The woman shouldn't have used public shaming if she wanted to make a point about "sexism". I have worked in situations with people who just had no class when it came to working with people of the opposite sex and they made excuses for it. This article was not even close or even related to something like that.

This was somebody just thinking "I gotcha now I am going to use the Internet to make myself feel good about shaming you".

New2IT

@iristheangel
I'm really suprised to see you say that you would be out of a job. Are you saying that you participate? As an African-American woman (who is not young) I have been re-thinking going into this industry...

Iristheangel

We're not sailors but I have been known to make a non-PC joke or two around trusted co-workers and definitely out at drinks after work. I think everyone has said something at one time that could have gotten them fired if heard by the wrong person or out of context. Basically, I'm a human being

I think the best thing to do if offended is to tell the person to stop, not publicly shame them or try to get them fired. They might not know what they are saying is offensive to you or you could have misheard whatever you thought you heard.

New2IT

@Iristheangel

You said, "They might not know what they are saying is offensive to you"

I just can't relate to that statement. There has been an orientation at every job that I've had. During these orientations someone has gone over corporate handbooks that talked about unacceptable speech and behaviors. Many of these orientations have included videos. I've always had to sign paperwork stating that someone went over the policies with me and that I understood the policies.

I'm really not trying to debate. I have my work history and at this point I guess I have certain expectations, just something for me to think about at this point.

tpatt100

I think the appropriate thing to do is tell somebody to stop but to be honest not everybody is comfortable with confronting people about their behavior. Often any reasonably intelligent person would realize they are being offensive and stop but I have seen some people who react negatively and or hostile. In today's workplace and the economy the way it is some people might be afraid to say anything out of fear of being labeled a troublemaker.

At one of my contracts we had a female who was Chaldean which is a Catholic religion in Iraq. Her parents immigrated to the US a while back. She was listening to music quietly in her cubicle and one of the techs goes "hey who is playing terrorist music!" I heard "dude seriously??". He says " I kid I kid". Later he got fired for sending out a company wide email complaining that the female coworker was chosen for a promotion over him due to her looks....oh boy.

People just know their friends and what they can say and not say with coworkers, unless you are dense and have no clue. In my old Guard unit we have females and male soldiers and we get stuck together a lot and I know who my friends are that know if I make an off color remark they know I am kidding and they do the same.

Except I know my "audience" so what I say there is not something I say at work where others might hear.

t3ch_guru

New2IT wrote: »

@iristheangel
I'm really suprised to see you say that you would be out of a job. Are you saying that you participate? As an African-American woman (who is not young) I have been re-thinking going into this industry...

I wouldn't let that stop you from entering the IT industry. Not all shops are the same.

W Stewart

I don't see why joking about a dongle or forking automatically has to be a gender equality issue.

Qord

If she was so offended, she should have either spoken up or moved at the next chance she got. In a way it's sad that this is what our society has come to, tweeting these kinds of things in such a passive-aggressive and non-confrontational way instead of simply asking them to stop.

Agreed, not all shops are the same. Unlike Iris, I was a sailor, so you really can't offend me with words or actions. However, I do understand what it and what is not appropriate for the workplace. And based on corporate culture and group attitudes, this varies quite a bit. Despite what policy says, inappropriate things will happen, the only question is in whose company and to what degree.

If you're at a conference/training/whatever, you should have enough respect to tell your jokes in a voice low enough as to not disturb your neighbors. Most of us have been there, sitting in an uncomfortable chair actually trying to pay attention to something and Chatty Cathy's right behind you talking about something completely unrelated. Pipe down man!

t3ch_guru

I was just reading that she was terminated as well. This will definitely be interesting...

'Sexism' Public-Shaming Via Twitter Leads To Two People Getting Fired (Including The Shamer) - Forbes

Roguetadhg

Bah. I tend to keep my wits about me, until i'm comfortable around someone. You can kind of guage what you can and can not say by testing the waters.

At my current work with a bunch of women, it's the complete opposite. It's more the women saying things that make me wonder "What the heck?" I'm not new to the concepts but I'll just say: Tassles, Pole Dancing, and well it sounded like something you'd see in a hardcore adult movie - without the entertaining music in the background.

But work with a bunch of men, and the jokes become just the same. Really. It's not like it gets any better.

This is in a conference, so I can understand the sensitivity - but most people tend to have the common sense not to in public.

...Still....

She should've said "I'm offended" or let them know. Yes. If it's really that "Offensive", and she wanted to resolve the situation at that moment, she should've said something. Once they start to heckle, and berate her, it would definitely be time to take further action.

Networking innuendos abound, Gaming Innuendos.

Another thing - we don't really know what was said, in what context.

I just hope she doesn't watch any Family Guy or American Dad or South Park or Simpsons.

t3ch_guru

I know exactly what you mean.

It looks like she is getting bashed left and right now because of this. She is being cyber bullied on Facebook and twitter now. Will be interesting to see what this does to her career.

tpatt100

I doubt she was offended but probably saw an opportunity to make an online statement for purposes of advancing her online "brand".

Iristheangel

I agree, tpatt. Looking at some of her old tweets, there are a bunch of racist ones and there was even one talking about male genitalia the day before she got "offended."

wes allen

My, personal feeling is that "two wrongs don't make a right", and she should not have gone nuclear so quickly. The backlash is way out of line, though I agree that she wouldn't be able to be effective in her role at sendcloud anymore, so firing her was right from their perspective. Feel bad for the guy that got fired - he put out a nice apology at least, so unless there is more to it, I think his company kinda over reacted.

For a bit more background, I found this blog informative. https://amandablumwords.wordpress.com/2013/03/21/3/

nosoup4u

Wow, if people heard how we talk here we'd probably get thrown in jail!

ccnxjr

I'd like to bring to bear that some of us got into technology because of poor people skills!
It's also a bit unreasonable to expect that everyone in the IT industry or any industry for that matter behaves uniformly based on policy passed by a management team!
It's also a big reason why many brilliant technicians never see management positions, they can't (or choose not to learn ) the nuances of playing with other professionals in different disciplines with different personality types.
Likewise, if you spend long hours in social isolation (server room/data center or working the overnight shift on your own) you simply forget how to react around other people.
The stresses around this type of work are different from what a 9-5 er goes through in a cubicle around other people that do a slight variation of the same job.
Unfortunately these are long term personality traits and it's a bit unreasonable to expect someone to flip an internal switch from solitary mode to being-around-people mode.
This shouldn't be an excuse for someone that knows better to behave in-appropriately, but one must consider the context of the action before passing judgement.

antielvis

Iristheangel wrote: »

I agree, tpatt. Looking at some of her old tweets, there are a bunch of racist ones and there was even one talking about make genitalia the day before she got "offended."

Plus +10 and some points for those green things.

olaHalo

Geez
I probably would have joined in with the two guys and kept the jokes going.

Poor man lost his job over nothing.

tpatt100

The unfortunate thing overall is the job loss but also the inevitable backlash that will bring out all the negative sexist comments which will be far worse with the anonymity of the internet .

WilliamK99

There is a right way and a wrong way to respond to offensive comments and she went about it the wrong way which ending up with her getting fired as well. I honestly believe people can pick and choose "when" to get offended to suit their purpose and in her case she chose the wrong venue to express her outrage...

apr911

ccnxjr wrote: »

I'd like to bring to bear that some of us got into technology because of poor people skills!
It's also a bit unreasonable to expect that everyone in the IT industry or any industry for that matter behaves uniformly based on policy passed by a management team!
It's also a big reason why many brilliant technicians never see management positions, they can't (or choose not to learn ) the nuances of playing with other professionals in different disciplines with different personality types.
Likewise, if you spend long hours in social isolation (server room/data center or working the overnight shift on your own) you simply forget how to react around other people.
The stresses around this type of work are different from what a 9-5 er goes through in a cubicle around other people that do a slight variation of the same job.
Unfortunately these are long term personality traits and it's a bit unreasonable to expect someone to flip an internal switch from solitary mode to being-around-people mode.
This shouldn't be an excuse for someone that knows better to behave in-appropriately, but one must consider the context of the action before passing judgement.

+1

I work for a company with a pretty open policy about what is and isn't allowed. With the exception of hate speech and a few other things that clearly cross the line, there are few concrete rules on what is inappropriate.

Further muddying the waters is the fact that it varies from shift to shift even within my own company. When the 1st shifters go home and the after hours crews take over, there is a noticeable relaxation in the "rules."

I work on 3rd shift and before coming to shift, I rarely cursed and was always careful not to say something offensive but in 3 years on 3rd shift my speech patterns have really shifted. Cursing is more the norm on the 3rd shift teams and Ive definitely picked up the habbit when talking with people Im comfortable/familiar with. Now when Im on a day time shift I need to be really careful to apply the filters around the same people and others whom Im comfortable around and it can be really hard to do at times. Ive slipped up and cursed in front of people I would never have done so in front of before (my parents for one) and while usually I catch myself immediately after I say it, sometimes I dont and if I continue to slip, a little reminder is nice.

While I recognize my behavior as "wrong" in front of 1st shifters, my parents, etc. It is the "right" behavior in front of my peers on shift.

Bottom line, what is and isnt appropriate behavior varies from person to person. Further policies governing acceptable behavior vary from shift-to-shift WITHIN companies... Now throw in the fact we are talking about a developer conference where the people are from DIFFERENT companies, maybe different shifts and likely different backgrounds... Well, she should have recognized the possible cultural differences and said something herself to try and stop it as opposed to pouring gasoline on the fire and torching this guy's career. As a technical worker in this day and age with people getting fired over their OWN posts to facebook/twitter/etc she should have realized the only logical outcome of such a post would be a serious reprimand if not firing (as was the case) of the guy she posted about. It may not have been apparent that she'd get fired too but the outcome of her post should have never been in doubt as it pertains to the guy she was posting about.

Oh and in case anyone forgot... There was a dongle joke in a superbowl bestbuy commercial this year... So apparently she most have been offended by the commercial as well (but her own, sexually based comments about placing filled socks in your pants for TSA agents to find are OK)... I dont recall any news story after the superbowl expressing public indignation and outrage at the commercial so what made the dongle joke inappropriate? Granted we dont know the actual comments made but still shows the fact that want is/isnt inappropriate changes from person-to-person, day-to-day, hour-to-hour, minute-to-minute.

Even Adria admits in her blog post that she initially wasnt going to say anything but changed her mind when when the presenter changed the slide to a photo "of a little girl who had been in the Young Coders workshop."

apr911

wes allen wrote: »

My, personal feeling is that "two wrongs don't make a right", and she should not have gone nuclear so quickly. The backlash is way out of line, though I agree that she wouldn't be able to be effective in her role at sendcloud anymore, so firing her was right from their perspective. Feel bad for the guy that got fired - he put out a nice apology at least, so unless there is more to it, I think his company kinda over reacted.

For a bit more background, I found this blog informative. https://amandablumwords.wordpress.com/2013/03/21/3/

Interesting read on that blog. Apparently Adria has a history of selectively taking offense to things in the name of her internet "brand" and getting what she wants. Maybe her firing was more deserved than I would have thought.

VAHokie56

New2IT wrote: »

@Iristheangel

You said, "They might not know what they are saying is offensive to you"

I just can't relate to that statement. There has been an orientation at every job that I've had. During these orientations someone has gone over corporate handbooks that talked about unacceptable speech and behaviors. Many of these orientations have included videos. I've always had to sign paperwork stating that someone went over the policies with me and that I understood the policies.

I'm really not trying to debate. I have my work history and at this point I guess I have certain expectations, just something for me to think about at this point.

You need to follow whats appropriate and the handbook blah blah blah sure but I think there is a place for building re-pour and comradery with your co-workers and if you find someone has the same since of humor as you, awesome!! In my last job you might as well have changed the sign above the door from "network" to "walking HR disasters"...but the stuff said there was just between the team. I am with iris if you find like minded people at work you can have fun with do it and make friends...I enjoy going to work because of it.

WilliamK99

As someone who made a thread entitled "PMPing aint' easy" on the Project Management sub-forum, I may be the next to feel her wrath lol...

New2IT

Iristheangel wrote: »

I agree, tpatt. Looking at some of her old tweets, there are a bunch of racist ones and there was even one talking about male genitalia the day before she got "offended."

She is an adult and can discuss whatever she wants to outside of work and conferences. She has every right to complain about those guys. They violated the code of conduct at the conference. You start out saying that someone should just tell you when they are offended, but then you provide the perfect example of why HR departments and policies are needed when you come back with your "offended" remark. No matter what I say outside of work I am not required to listen to you say anything you want to at work.

Before someone comes back talking about she violated the code of conduct at the conference. She did not. The code was changed after her tweet to prevent future "public shaming" Those guys did violate the code of conduct and it was dealt with. That is a fact.

Everything changes and eventually people in the Tech industry will be required to behave in a more professional manner. Plus even now, juvenile behavior is going to catch up with some of you all at work. You may think no one is paying attention, but it can and will be used against you.

New2IT

ccnxjr wrote: »

I'd like to bring to bear that some of us got into technology because of poor people skills!
It's also a bit unreasonable to expect that everyone in the IT industry or any industry for that matter behaves uniformly based on policy passed by a management team!
It's also a big reason why many brilliant technicians never see management positions, they can't (or choose not to learn ) the nuances of playing with other professionals in different disciplines with different personality types.
Likewise, if you spend long hours in social isolation (server room/data center or working the overnight shift on your own) you simply forget how to react around other people.
The stresses around this type of work are different from what a 9-5 er goes through in a cubicle around other people that do a slight variation of the same job.
Unfortunately these are long term personality traits and it's a bit unreasonable to expect someone to flip an internal switch from solitary mode to being-around-people mode.
This shouldn't be an excuse for someone that knows better to behave in-appropriately, but one must consider the context of the action before passing judgement.

Thanks for the insights.