WGU BS IT SEC - No more CCNA??!

I just printed the "updated" program pdf guide and it appears that CCENT/CCNA are gone and Network Fundamentals (98-366) and CompTIA Net+ are to replace them? (Please look at the class descriptions, not the class list)

I also see CCNA Security still listed for the BSIT Security track, but I'm confused as they got rid of CCENT/CCNA? Are we supposed to go from Network Fundamentals -> Network+ -> CCNA Security?

I read that Cisco is updating their CCNA program and calling it CCNA Routing and Switching now, which I assume is why WGU is doing whatever it is they are doing, but CCNA is the whole reason I am interested in this program!

Somebody please tell me that I'm reading/interpreting this wrong. Thoughts, opinions?

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Comments

Psoasman

In taking a look at the BS IT Sec degree, it shows under What you'll earn - IT Certifications, that you will earn the CCENT>CCNA>CCNA: Security. Same info also shows up under the .pdf guide.

http://www.wgu.edu/wgu/prog_guide/BS_IT_SECU.pdf

Online IT Security Degree | Information Security Degree | WGU College of Information Technology

CoolAsAFan

Thank you for the reply, but I believe you missed what I am talking about in that guide that you linked.

In the class descriptions (not the class "list" at top as it does not 100% reflect the descriptions below, nor does the website) of the pdf guide, that there is no mention of CCENT/CCNA like their once used to be, but there is Network+ and Network Fundamentals in their place.

I mean, am I wrong in remembering that CCENT/CCNA used to be in the class descriptions, where information stated the test numbers and the study material that would provided, but no longer is? And in their place is what I stated above?

Will someone please read the network section in the class descriptions of the guide and let me know what you think.

instant000

I see what you mean. the CCNA is mentioned briefly on page 2 of the PDF, and then you see "interconnecting network devices" in the list of assessments, but if you go through the program guide, you see CCNA-Security, but you don't see the CCENT or CCNA tests.

So, I can understand the OP's confusion, as the information is not complete.

At this point, my suggestion would be to contact your mentor for assistance.

CoolAsAFan

Unfortunately, I do not have a mentor yet. I receive my AAS next month, then plan to enroll directly to WGU. I keep reading that the enrollment counselors do not really know too much and that they are the worst part of this process, but I have emailed mine and will post her response on here (if warranted).

Bundiman

I wouldn't read to much into this. They are also adding Linux+ and it is not listed either. I would talk to a enrollment counselor. It is still part of my degree program at this time.

Bundiman

wow I went back and looked and Linux+ has been added to the PDF. Maybe they are removing the CCNA which would not be a surprise since CISCO removed the requirement of a CCNA and changed it to just the CCENT to earn your CCNA Security.

YuckTheFankees

I could definitely see them changing the requirements from the CCNA to CCENT. I can't help but notice the changes WGU have made to their bachelor and master programs over the last 6 months....it appears they are trying to make their degrees "easier".

CoolAsAFan

Thank you for the reply Bundiman!
Thats the thing, linux+ and all other new additions (network+ and changes in MS certs) are on the updated pdf guide (in class descriptions only), which is what is freaking me out!

I was not aware that Cisco changed their requirements for CCNA Security to just CCENT. This is starting to make a little sense to me. I wonder if WGU is trying to use Network+ in place of CCENT to prepare us and throw us straight into CCNA Sec (without CCENT/CCNA). I wonder if Cisco would allow this? I wonder if this is less optimal than going CCENT>CCNA>CCNA Sec from a learning standpoint?

@YuckTheFankess- Yes I have noticed this too, and it is all happening right as I am supposed to be starting at WGU! I wonder if they are trying to better their graduation/retention rates, or save money. Most likely, it is a combination of the two.

gc8dc95

I am just starting my cisco classes at WGU and am glad I decided to. I have talked to my mentor about the change to the new version, and I was told they are not for sure that they would retain the cisco tests because of very poor first time pass rating....somewhere in the 30% range was what I was told. Doesn't necessarily mean anything, but I am happy that I started before some of these changes have taken affect.

Bundiman

I think you can take the CCNA Security exam with having passed the CCENT you just want get the Security cert until you pass CCENT.

YuckTheFankees

@bundiman,

You are correct. If you decide to take the CCNA Security exam before CCENT or CCNA, thats fine..but you will not be certified until you pass either of the CCENT or CCNA.

DPG

YuckTheFankees wrote: »

I could definitely see them changing the requirements from the CCNA to CCENT. I can't help but notice the changes WGU have made to their bachelor and master programs over the last 6 months....it appears they are trying to make their degrees "easier".

I belive they are trying to make the classes cheaper for the university by bringing more assessments in-house.

YuckTheFankees

Yeah, I know why they are doing it "cost factor" but then again....they might lose students because they are taking away a lot of the certifications they liked...so will they actually be saving that much if they are losing students because of the certifications they are subtracting to save money?

Raisin

Microsoft screwed them over when they abruptly restructured their certifications. Since then WGU has been looking to reduce their dependency on external exams and bring things in house. Although dropping popular certs like the CCNA is probably going to hurt them in the long run. If they really want to drop something get rid of the CIW and most of the MTA certs.

N2IT

I like the idea of dropping SOME of the certifications and focusing more on the internal degree content personally. I do like the idea of getting the CCNA or some other well respected bigtime certification at the end of the degree. That was always appealing, but getting all the CIW and CompTIA's never really appealled to me.

instant000

Yes, the value proposition decreases, because while it is no longer a B.S. that includes the very attractive CCNA credential, it is still a regionally accredited B.S. degree in the field just the same.

The funny thing is that the things we dismiss because we "already know them" is not fair to someone starting the program who hasn't been in IT for years like most of us have. If you read these forums, and can see how people who have been in the industry for years struggle with the CCNA, imagine someone fresh off the street who never heard of ping coming in and trying to study for it and clear it.

Do consider that some people joining the BS:IT Security may have other schooling and experience in other fields. So, while some of these classes are a walk in the park for those of us who have been doing it for years, we still need to consider there could be people seeing these things for the first time when they take the courses.

Therefore, the degree would be easier or harder for some of us, depending on what we already know when we begin.

If it is a question of rigor decreasing because the CCNA is not included? Yes, it is.
I would rather that their retake policy be this: students pay for all retakes out-of-pocket. This way, students are motivated to study for the exam properly and pass it the first time around. The truth of it though is that if this occurred, many students would have to drop the program, as the reason for pursuing the degree was because it was cost-effective. Pay for a retake or two, and many could have just as well gone distance to any other school.

Heck, I wish that they had a program that included a voucher for each CCNP exam. Candidates who cleared the CCNP during the program would graduate with Honors.

This way, they could maintain the integrity of the program, by providing the one free take for each exam, and also withhold honors for the candidates that passed additional exams beyond the degree requirements. This way, it would be possible to get honors if you went above what the curriculum required. (I have no idea how this would work for a candidate who showed up on day one who already had the credential. -- would they be guaranteed of Honors if they completed the program?)

Mike-Mike

instant000 wrote: »

I would rather that their retake policy be this: students pay for all retakes out-of-pocket. This way, students are motivated to study for the exam properly and pass it the first time around. The truth of it though is that if this occurred, many students would have to drop the program, as the reason for pursuing the degree was because it was cost-effective. Pay for a retake or two, and many could have just as well gone distance to any other school.

Heck, I wish that they had a program that included a voucher for each CCNP exam. Candidates who cleared the CCNP during the program would graduate with Honors.

I like both of these suggestions

theanimal

I may have to bump the CCENT and CCNA classes up then before the changes are made. Though I have most of the knowledge now and just need a refresher on their material, I'd just prefer taking it on WGU's dime. WGU is also helping me put strict time requirements on classes/certs now.

Bundiman

The point of this is getting a degree the fact that you could get some certs is just a bonus. I think they have a bigger issue of people taking the cert class up front then never finishing the general education classes.

Krones

The IT Security degree is becoming less and less attractive. I am a bit disappointed with a few of the web programming classes based on CIW curriculum which include a lot of deprecated material. I felt the high point to the degree is the CCNA and it is not supposed to be easy. Now there is a very real chance WGU might not allow students to take the updated exams but settle for the Network+. No thanks. I am not sure how this is going to play out. I was not scheduled to start on the CCENT until my next term.

Raisin

I think part of the problem is that WGU is using outside vendors for most of their cert pre-assessment's and there's no way for mentors to see if a student is performing well before approving a voucher. WGU could cut down on a lot of the first time failures for the CCNA if they had a in house pre-assessment that closely matched what you would find on the actual exam. Have a mandatory policy that says students must take the pre-assessment and if they don't make the cut off score, they have to spend a certain amount of time studying before they can try again.

Shinjin

I'm a prospective WGU student myself, hoping to join the IT Security track. From what I'm gathering on the forums, WGU is looking like it's in some transitional stage where old certs are expiring and everything is going in-house. If you look at this thread, http://www.techexams.net/forums/jobs-degrees/87607-wgu-changes-coming-next-few-months.html, CCNA/CCNET aren't the only ones being affected, right? If I registered by June 1st, is it true the Cisco and Microsoft exams certs will no longer be part of the curriculum?

YuckTheFankees

@shinjin,

I would contact WGU for exact information.

CoolAsAFan

@shinjin,

I have emailed my enrollment counselor to try and get exactly what changes are happening to the BS IT Security program and how it affects new enrollments and what kind of cut off dates might apply. I will hopefully have a response tomorrow and will post it on here.

eansdad

As far as my mentor has told me the CCNA is not moving. It looks like it was missed in the class section but not the class list. If you add the credits up it comes to 122.

I am not a fan of WGU moving exams around like they are. The only draw for me was the certs otherwise I'd have gone to UAT for almost the same cost. The security program is in shambles. Their are 2 less programming classes then the software track but nothing on firewalls or advanced security concepts (like detection like IDS/IPS or Offensive/Defensive hacking). They just added Linux to the mix which is a step in the right direction. The MTA's need to be dumped. The 4 networking classes (MTA:Networking, Net+, ICND1+2) need to be cut back to 2 (ICND1+2) with the enrollment criteria. WGU shouldn't be taking people with 0 exp or no college or certs as per their enrollment criteria. That could open up at least 3 classes. I'd like to see a Checkpoint cert and CASP or CEH added for 2nd level security knowledge and possible classes in Metasploit, Wireshark and SNORT. To me, that makes a well rounded security degree. A simple search on Dice would show what jobs are looking for in security and what WGU currently has isn't it.

MSP-IT

eansdad wrote: »

I'd like to see a Checkpoint cert and CASP or CEH added for 2nd level security knowledge and possible classes in Metasploit, Wireshark and SNORT.

I couldn't agree with you more.

xocity

As per request from CoolAsAFan, I have emailed my mentor for clarification,

I sent the Following email to my mentor

Hello *******,
I am part of many Technical I.T. forums and there are some rumors that people want to get cleared up before they enroll to WGU. According to the PDF guide for the BS I.T. -Security Track, it doesnt show the CCENT/CCNA as part of the program. Instead, it shows that it is being replaced by the Network+ exam. But on the main WGU website it still shows CCENT/CCNA. Is the CCNA being dropped from the program? Since there are new changes to the CCNA and now the new Pre-requisite for the CCNA-Security is only a CCENT,
Another question is that there are some exams that are going to be phased out by the end of June. For example, the A+ exam. The old one is going to not be offered by WGU after a certain date. Lets say that the date for the new exam is June 1st (I dont remember exact date at this point so i will use June 1st), and someone enrolls and starts WGU August 1st, can that person take the old exam after June first since he was enrolled before the end date? Or will he have take the new exam regardless of start date since its after June 1st?
Thank you very much

She sent the following email

I’m so glad to be able to help you clear up confusion so that you can refer people to WGU! For your first question – I’ve looked through all the information I have about the BSITSec track and am not seeing any changes that would impact the CCNA studies. The security track will continue to include the courses that prepare students to take the CCNA exams.
For the second question – as of May 1st, all of the course material will be updated to reflect the new version of the A+ exam. Any student that starts after May 1st will be using that new material and will sit for the new version of the exam. Only students that are enrolled in that course prior to the change would have an option of taking the older exam.
Hopefully that helps – if you need more information, just let me know!

I hope that clears everything up for you, I have an open line of communication with my mentor, if there are any more questions feel free to ask.

razz2525

I'm starting my BSIT Security on May 1st and I'm trying to get through the program in 18 months. The estimated end of my plan is in April 2016. No way! Does anyone here have any recommendations as to what courses to accelerate and move to the 1st and 2nd terms? I'm playing with my Degree Plan now and I'm not sure which courses to move up and which to leave exactly where they are. I met the requirements of all of the humanities classes - the only non-tech classes that didn't transfer over were BNC1, MGC1 and TPV1.

Shinjin

@razz,

I'm pretty much in the same boat although my actual start date will probably be June 1st. How many CU's did you transfer in if I might ask?

Madmd5

eansdad wrote: »

As far as my mentor has told me the CCNA is not moving. It looks like it was missed in the class section but not the class list. If you add the credits up it comes to 122.

I am not a fan of WGU moving exams around like they are. The only draw for me was the certs otherwise I'd have gone to UAT for almost the same cost. The security program is in shambles. Their are 2 less programming classes then the software track but nothing on firewalls or advanced security concepts (like detection like IDS/IPS or Offensive/Defensive hacking). They just added Linux to the mix which is a step in the right direction. The MTA's need to be dumped. The 4 networking classes (MTA:Networking, Net+, ICND1+2) need to be cut back to 2 (ICND1+2) with the enrollment criteria. WGU shouldn't be taking people with 0 exp or no college or certs as per their enrollment criteria. That could open up at least 3 classes. I'd like to see a Checkpoint cert and CASP or CEH added for 2nd level security knowledge and possible classes in Metasploit, Wireshark and SNORT. To me, that makes a well rounded security degree. A simple search on Dice would show what jobs are looking for in security and what WGU currently has isn't it.

I also agree these proposed certs would benefit current students as well as prospective students. They need to start attracting students back to the IT - Security program (I am a student hoping to enroll at WGU in the fall and major in this program) and I feel these would be a step in the right direction.