Anyone thought about going the army route or navy route for IT?

gbdavidx

If anyone has served in this field, is it "safe" job in the military to gain experience?

I was looking at this and it's for reservists
Network Switching Systems Operator-Maintainer Jobs (25F) | GoArmy.com

I would gain experience and it would pay for any school...

instant000

I went the Army route for IT. Served from 2000-2006, OCONUS (Outside the Continental United States) at Egypt, Korea, and Iraq.

I did 25B.

There really is no such thing as a "safe" job in the Army. Chaplain isn't safe. Medical workers aren't safe. And those are about two of the "safest" jobs you could get. Coast Guard are about the only military component I can think of that doesn't deploy OCONUS. But, really, warfare is not conventional anymore, and the enemy is sometimes within already. (So, trying to pick something that stays stateside isn't necessarily safe, either.)

If you're really serious about this, you might want to check out the MOS manual.

Go to this page, and many of the MOS manuals are here. Read them, to get a really good idea of what you're putting yourself in for.
If you think 25F is OK, I would say to please consider 25 P, 25Q, and 25S. Also, 25B (but it's not listed here).
25B -> Dilbert (basically, maintaining computers and anything else)
25F -> Ma Bell (the phone system guy)
25N -> Cisco (think of maintaining routers and switches)
25P -> Verizon Wireless Tech (think of maintaining cell towers)
25Q -> 97.5 FM! (think of maintaining radio stations)
25S -> Television (think of the communications dishes)
25U - > Jack of all trades (these guys can do some of anything, mainly "commo" guys, but really, can be anything)

Don't forget, the lines of the above get blurred. For example, there is an MOS (25L) that runs wire, but you bet your bottom dollar I did that, too. And there is a MOS (25N) for configuring routers and switches, and you can bet that I did some of that, also.

So, there can be bleedover from time to time, but most MOS have their core competency.

The MOS you choose, hopefully it lines up with the work you like to do, so that your experience can carry over a lot better. There's no pressure an enterprise network can place on you like having to get/maintain comms up when your life (LITERALLY) depends on it.

MOS - Army Doctrine and Training Publications

Hope this helps!

P.S.: Just so you know, if I could go back and do it again: I'd have done the 250N, Warrant, and if not that, I would have done the shortest enlistment possible that still gave a TS clearance, then got out and get more money.

gbdavidx

thanks for the reply, not even the air force is "safe"?

canoj

I am a 25N in the army. From what I've heard throughout AIT and my duty stations from platoon sergeants and section sergeants is that they are phasing out the 25F mos. A lot of them are reclassing to either 25B/N/S's.

As for being "safe," I got stationed in Alaska which is still considered OCONUS. It depends entirely on what unit you are placed in. I'm in a "non deployable" signal unit. Our sister companies get deployed to Afganistan; my company goes to little one - three months missions in Pacific places like Thailand or the Phillipines.

As for what equipment I use, mainly Cisco router, switches and CUCM, a pbx type system, and comsec. We do have Cisco ASA's but we are not authorized to get into them. We don't train

canoj

(sorry I don't see how to edit a post on mobile)

We don't train enough on our equipment to become proficient at it. It is up to the individual soldier to get certified on his own and ask his team chief to practice on the equipment if there is downtime.

astrogeek

I would do it in a heartbeat if I could, but with crohn's disease no branch would take me. It sucks too because as long as I can get medication and an occasional doctors visit it doesn't really bother me, but as far as I know there is no way I could join. I'm probably getting too old for it even if I could get in now, but I'd still do it if I had the chance.

Valsacar

If by safe you mean, not getting deployed, please stay away from our military. You sign up to serve your country in any way needed.

If by safe you mean, actually doing your job and gaining good experience... then don't join the Army. Army put people where they need, very often with little regard for what they were trained to do. Air Force and Navy are both very strict on putting people where they are trained (unless the need is very great). The Marines are also that way, from what little I worked with them (worked more with AF and Navy).

--Army Vet

IA-Daigakusei

@Valsacar: I second that!!

@OP: When you join the military, you commit to serving our country. Even reservists have the possibility of getting called up. This isn't a club and it isn't the scouts.. You don't join our military "to be" safe, but rather to keep "everyone else" safe..

- Navy vet

Nemowolf

Valsacar wrote: »

If by safe you mean, not getting deployed, please stay away from our military. You sign up to serve your country in any way needed.

If by safe you mean, actually doing your job and gaining good experience... then don't join the Army. Army put people where they need, very often with little regard for what they were trained to do. Air Force and Navy are both very strict on putting people where they are trained (unless the need is very great). The Marines are also that way, from what little I worked with them (worked more with AF and Navy).

--Army Vet

IA-Daigakusei wrote: »

@Valsacar: I second that!!

@OP: When you join the military, you commit to serving our country. Even reservists have the possibility of getting called up. This isn't a club and it isn't the scouts.. You don't join our military "to be" safe, but rather to keep "everyone else" safe..

- Navy vet

As a non-vet but having had a sibling serve, my father serve and several of my good friends from HS serve ... You apparently forgot the meaning of the word "Military." As above, there are no safe jobs, i have heard some stories of mortar fire, convoys being assaulted and more real tragedy in an 18 month deployment then you see in your entire life ...

I won't feel safe as a citizen if you are trying to play it safe by joining the military to get experience.

networker050184

I spent 6 1/2 years as a 31F/25F/25N in the Army. Best decision I ever made!

Nutsy

There is only one reason to join any branch of the military: you want to serve your country. Period.

Once you sign on the dotted line everything is up in the air besides the fact you are in the military. You might enlist, get your desired specialty but guess what? You are the low guy on the totem poll when you deploy so you are cleaning bathrooms, vacuuming, working 24 hr guard duty, and having god knows what injected into you. Then you realize a year or two in, "I haven't gotten to do anything technical."

Ask anyone you know who is in, or has in any branch of the military, "How much paperwork did you sign when you enlisted/got a commission?" They will say a ton. The reason, they legally have you locked up to do whatever "the missions needs." What that means is whatever retard above you feels like making you do, you will do. Period.

dmoore44

Valascar, @IA-Daigakusei
Well said. As was constantly reinforced when I was in, "ONE TEAM, ONE FIGHT". Everyone deploys. And if for some reason you're not deployable, prepare to be discharged.

-USAF vet.

networker050184

Nutsy wrote: »

There is only one reason to join any branch of the military: you want to serve your country. Period.

Once you sign on the dotted line everything is up in the air besides the fact you are in the military. You might enlist, get your desired specialty but guess what? You are the low guy on the totem poll when you deploy so you are cleaning bathrooms, vacuuming, working 24 hr guard duty, and having god knows what injected into you. Then you realize a year or two in, "I haven't gotten to do anything technical."

Ask anyone you know who is in, or has in any branch of the military, "How much paperwork did you sign when you enlisted/got a commission?" They will say a ton. The reason, they legally have you locked up to do whatever "the missions needs." What that means is whatever retard above you feels like making you do, you will do. Period.

That is a very narrow view of the military. If you are smart enough and take initiative to learn your job and be a valuable asset to the mission you won't be one of the turds cleaning latrines and pulling guard duty all the time. You are a soldier so don't get me wrong, you have to do soldier stuff, but not everyone gets craped on.

coty24

Nutsy wrote: »

There is only one reason to join any branch of the military: you want to serve your country. Period.

Once you sign on the dotted line everything is up in the air besides the fact you are in the military. You might enlist, get your desired specialty but guess what? You are the low guy on the totem poll when you deploy so you are cleaning bathrooms, vacuuming, working 24 hr guard duty, and having god knows what injected into you. Then you realize a year or two in, "I haven't gotten to do anything technical."

Ask anyone you know who is in, or has in any branch of the military, "How much paperwork did you sign when you enlisted/got a commission?" They will say a ton. The reason, they legally have you locked up to do whatever "the missions needs." What that means is whatever retard above you feels like making you do, you will do. Period.

I kinda feel you on what you are saying, but only from a lower enlisted perspective.

-Army Vet and still serving // deployed to both major campaigns

instant000

To agree with networker050184:

There is guard duty and what not, but if you're deployed on a 1,000 soldier FOB ... do you really think that if we have only two guys to maintain the network 24/7 they will do guard duty? Not very likely.

eansdad

Not exactly true on the "place you where they need you". If your MOS involves specialized training then you are most likely not going to be doing other jobs. I am an Army-Vet and was a 02L (Sax player). 90% of my time was doing just that, playing music. The other 10% was with administration for our unit since we were a self sufficient unit (unit only had band members so we dealt with admin, supply, logistics). Occasionally (I think once or twice) we did some lawn work for the unit hall. Basically they aren't going to tell you to go on a tank crew if you are a 25 series. They could if it was really that bad but not likely.

Serving your country isn't the only reason to join the military. As long as you realize that that is the #1 reason you are their. If you can't do that then you shouldn't go. Ask yourself "Can I kill someone because my country requires it?". If the answer is no then you don't belong.

With all that ... I wish I was a few years younger so I could re-up. I would go in for IT in a heart beat.

Syntax

IA-Daigakusei wrote: »

@Valsacar: I second that!!

@OP: When you join the military, you commit to serving our country. Even reservists have the possibility of getting called up. This isn't a club and it isn't the scouts.. You don't join our military "to be" safe, but rather to keep "everyone else" safe..

- Navy vet

Certainly sounds like a club the way people are ganging up on the OP for asking a question. I don't think he meant any disrespect.

shodown

I can only speak of navy IT. A lot has changed, but I worked mostly as a systems admin on the ship, not to many routers. Lots of switches depending on your ship, but they use to be mostly off brands and a lot of hubs. I worked at a NOC for a while and that was the 1st time I saw real BGP OSPF and EIGRP in action. I didnt do any design work, but I got to touch a lot of devices and it set me up very well for getting out and getting a good paying job. I had to do plenty of guard duty, Mess duty, and other stuff I didn't' want to, but all those things eventually end. I got my CCNA, and Part of my CCNP paid for. I got a clearance. IT was a good trade off for me. With that being said, a lot of guys and girls had some shitty experiences, Some of it was brought on themselves, others ended up at bad commands due to needs of the navy. It can be a coin toss. So always perform high to be able to make some decisions.

Nutsy

As you all know, who you serve with makes 100% the difference. I have known people who worked in some of the most god awful places who loved their tour. People make everything. Thus, we could all go on saying what we have each experienced based off who/where we served. Truthfully, none of our opinions, based on our experiences, are wrong. To ask, "what is the military like?" is analogous to someone from outside the US asking, "what is the USA like?" There is going to be a huge spectrum of answers. None are wrong.

My point to the OP is that once you sign on the dotted line, everything is up in the air. The only 100% constant is that you will be doing something to serve your country. Beyond that, you can't bank on anything else. You are not signing up for a technical job. You are signing up to further the security of your country.

Yes, if you work hard to learn your job you probably will become a go-to-guy and avoid the bad details, or just do them less. However, no one who has served will say that you will never do them.

Also, I agree with the rest of the posts. If you can't stand the idea of killing someone, or being in dangerous situations, don't sign up.

With all that said, the military did well to prepare me for the private sector. I stepped into a decent paying position, and only have been moving up since then. You can get a lot of great stuff out of the military just realize that it is not guaranteed to you.

Mrock4

I served in the Army as a 25B from 2004 - 2011. I joined with a plan (my first ever post on TE here was BEFORE I joined..so you can actually see what my plan was if you can find that darn post)- and I followed the plan. I used the benefits and opportunities the Army gave me to my advantage. Made friends for life (that are like family). There were definitely a lot of bad times where I hated it. Would I do it again? In a heartbeat..

My short advice is: If you have a positive attitude and a plan, it can be an awesome adventure. If you want things handed to you, you're better off not joining (this is for anyone, not just the OP).

instant000

Syntax wrote: »

Certainly sounds like a club the way people are ganging up on the OP for asking a question. I don't think he meant any disrespect.

Syntax:

Personally, I do not feel disrespected at all. And I doubt any others are either. I got benefits out of my military signup: college loan repayment, job skills, signing bonus, and Post-9-11 GI Bill for three years worth of schooling post-military.

I would hope that the OP would be encouraged that he has resources on techexams who have been in his shoes before, about to make that military decision, and able to provide constructive feedback about what he may or may not be in for.

I want to make sure that the original poster (OP) is fully informed about what he may be getting himself into. I enjoyed my time serving, but it is not for everyone. You get out of it what you put into it.

I had to do CQ duty in garrison, for example. For those not familiar, it is basically a duty where you're responsible for the soldiers in the barracks, and make sure that they are taken care of. It is usually done as a 24-hour shift, which rotates throughout a unit.

The nature of my job, for the most part, precluded me from many details in most units.

When I was in Korea, we had an entire company full of 25B, so of course I was more likely to do details there, as we were literally a dime-a-dozen. We had a Secure Messaging platoon, a LAN/WAN platoon, and a Data Center platoon. (It is in these situations where you should try even harder to shine and volunteer for missions.)

I really hope the OP looked at the links I posted earlier, as it is important to have an idea of the type of work that he will be expected to perform. Once he's familiar with what the job requires, and what's in the MOS manual, he would be advised to go above and beyond that. This way, he'll be seen as a star performer, and the superiors will take good care of him.

Oh yeah, start running now. Gotta get that physical training (PT) score up.

If you can do your job well, score well in physical fitness, show up on time, and have the right uniform and equipment, you can go far in the military.

Another question is whether or not the OP has considered the Air Force.

Also, if the OP does sign up, he needs to make sure that he enlists in TEXAS, or has a home of record in the state of TEXAS. Due to the Hazelwood Act, OP will get full-ride public tuition to any Texas public university as a veteran. Un-beatable deal. it would be worth the cost of a flight to enlist from Texas.

Hope this helps.

higherho

I wish I went the military route. I would much rather serve 4 years than pay 80k back in student loans. Military vets get some nice perks to when it comes to job hunting (basically they get preference).

About7Narwhal

Being on the outside, I too see the response as a slight bit hostile. I certainly understand the pride that goes along with protecting the nation and its people (with family and friends having served), but I agree with some of the previous that the OP most likely intended no insult with his question.

@OP

If you have an interest in military experience, I would suggest you look at a civilian contractor job with a company like SAIC. You will not get the military grade education funding, but you will have a "safe" military job. If, however, you want to get the military rewards, you should be prepared for the dangers that go along with it.

I would have also enjoyed a stent of time with the military to know what it is about, learn what I could, and provide support to those who risk their lives. I doubt they would take me with my back injury though. Not to mention that I have no desire to fight a war. All the more reason to respect the service men and women.

JockVSJock

<sup>I'm currently 25N in the US Army and 1/2 thru my 4 year contract. Here is my perspective of this MOS and some of the things I've seen in the US Army so far.

*25N deals mainly with JNN, which is Joint Nodal Network, which makes up the Global Information Grid (GIG) of the US Military. Think mobile server room on wheels. It sounds cool, but in reality your just an operator doing the basics with routers, switches, fiber, VoIP phones, encryption and some server work

*To hold this position, and most 25 series MOS job, you must be able to hold a Secret Clearance. Some soldiers wash out because of financial problems and due to this are seen as high risk.

*I spent a whole year in South Korea with the US Army, watching contractors doing the majority of my MOS. I was lucky to add a route to a Cisco router or troubleshoot a Cisco CallManager, because the unit I was with supported units next to the border of North Korea and there wasn't room for error. HOWEVER, the contractors knew I loved the IT work and they tried to get me involved in as much as possible. If you do show interest or show aptitude, they will try to help your career, since 99% of them were in the US Military at one time too. BTW, many of them have been deployed to war zones to support various missions in the last 10 to 12 years, so even their job isn't safe.

*You are going to do a lot of work outside of your MOS. I've done the following MOS work: 25B, 25S, 25F, 25L, and 25Q. I'm open to this and it has made me better at my MOS however you have soldiers who refuse to learn beyond what they do and they are a drag on your mission and unit

*Besides your MOS, you are going to have others duties. For example, I serve as my Unit Armorer now for most of my military career, which means I administer and maintain my units weapons (M4s, M249s, M9s, MK-19s, and Grenade Launchers). Matter of fact just spent the last few days at the range shooting live rounds from MK-19s and Grenade Launchers.

*Advanced Individual Training in FT Gordon is very rigorous and tedious and some soldiers lose it and go AWOL because of it. Much of the training is MS Powerpoint driven and a lot of simulations. You are lucky to get 20 minutes of hands-on training with the equipment due to other classes. Also keep in mind you will have other missions: such as doing physical training (running, doing situps and pushups to prepare to pass a PT test), cleaning barracks, room inspections, standing in accountability formations at 2am because NCOs bust someone for underage drinking, mass punishment for the failures of other soldiers, ASU inspections, details that involve mowing grass and attending mock military boards. You also won't have privileges of an every day citizen, like driving a car, observing a curfew of say 12 am, unable to wear civilian clothing, and having to travel with a battle buddy at all times.

*If you enlist, you are going to grouped in with soldiers between the ages of 18 to 24. Many of them are very immature, never had to take care of themselves, had any real responsibility, flunked out of college and/or being kicked out of their parents house for whatever reason. So in a sense, someone else problem is being dumped on the US Army and now they have to babysit. Many of them lose the professionalism/discipline they learned at Basic once they hit AIT, making it hard for those that want to be in the US Army.

*Some soldiers, especially ones who have been in for some times act like "trolls" if you come in with work experience/education/certs, like myself. Think, "Keep the Trolls Away From Your Goals." They will try to do everything to sabotage/undermine you, especially if you are trying to better yourself, because you are a threat. Most of them have spent their whole Army career drinking beer, playing video games, playing with their smart phone and/or getting into trouble. Pretty bad in my last unit, not so bad in my current unit.

I will give the US Army credit for this. They want you to get promoted. They want to rank up. They want you to better yourself. If you doing your best, going above and beyond each day, or at least trying, NCOs and Officer will notice and reciprocate I can't say this for any damn corporate job that I've ever worked.</sup>

SteveLord

Syntax wrote: »

Certainly sounds like a club the way people are ganging up on the OP for asking a question. I don't think he meant any disrespect.

The question about deployment or tiptoeing around it occurs a lot. Especially in a bad economy, many see the military as their ticket to money, insurance, whatever...hoping to give as little as possible and get as much as possible in return. Unfortunately many of these types make it in and their true colors are revealed in basic training when the stress involved and being away from home for a few months sinks in. Although to be fair, some are like this until they get there...and that sense of pride outweighs their fears and concerns.

While questioning deployment is certainly an understandable, it's one of those that will always strike a nerve/raise suspicion with current/prior serviceman. Especially when the followup post is about the airforce being "safe." It's just the way it is. And yes, the military is like a club....like a brotherhood. And most "members" understand they wrote a blank check to Uncle Sam in exchange for any and all benefits.

I don't really see it as everyone ganging up on the OP. But giving out doses of reality. Because once you're in, the only quick ways to get out are not fun (jail time) or healthy (injury). The best way to get out, is to just finish your contract. Best to figure it out now.

Syntax

About7Narwhal wrote: »

Being on the outside, I too see the response as a slight bit hostile. I certainly understand the pride that goes along with protecting the nation and its people (with family and friends having served), but I agree with some of the previous that the OP most likely intended no insult with his question.

@OP

If you have an interest in military experience, I would suggest you look at a civilian contractor job with a company like SAIC. You will not get the military grade education funding, but you will have a "safe" military job. If, however, you want to get the military rewards, you should be prepared for the dangers that go along with it.

I would have also enjoyed a stent of time with the military to know what it is about, learn what I could, and provide support to those who risk their lives. I doubt they would take me with my back injury though. Not to mention that I have no desire to fight a war. All the more reason to respect the service men and women.

Even civilian contractor jobs you have to be careful as many of them have a OCONUS requirement (even though some many tiptoe around or not be as up front as they should about it). Civilian contractors can and will get deployed to war zones (I learned that the hard way). The difference is, A. You get paid a heck of a lot more than a soldier and B. You can easily just quit whereas when enlisted you can't... So even those jobs aren't "safe", depending on the situation.

Rosco2382

Join the Navy, yes you will be deployed, but safety is not really in jeopardy. The benefits and the schooling are top notch. Gov't was paying for certs and education, not sure how its working now with the sequester and all. I had a few friends go from Army/Marines to Navy and said ti was best decision of their careers.

coty24

@ eansdad, consider this U.S. Army Recruiting Command's Warrant Officer Recruiting Information Site

SteveLord

^ I think WO does him no good. He is no longer enlisted and has indicated he may be too old. Amongst other requirements.

tombosauce

I can't speak for the other services, but I'm in the Navy and have served at a NOC and in the information systems department on a ship. I was the "retard in charge" of a group of Information Systems Technicians (ITs) at both commands. As a new IT, depending on the amount of time you enlist for, you can expect to come out of your initial schooling with a A+, Network+, and Security+ certs. You may also be elligible to get some Microsoft Certs.

As the new guy, you're going to get stuck doing a lot of crappy, non-tech related jobs like painting and cleaning, but those won't be your primary duty. You'll work with a lot of people who chose the rate of IT because they "like computers" and have no real drive to learn to maintain them. If you show a desire to learn, you shouldn't have a problem gaining experience. In my division, I had a 19 year old who was the lead administrator for two 1500 node networks because he showed the initiative and learned the systems. You'll get the opportunity to work with all sorts of systems. We had Windows Server 2003 systems, Unix systems, VoIP, Sharepoint, virtualized servers, and a bunch of Navy-specific systems. You may work with any one or all of them. The pay isn't great, but it's an entry level job that allows you the opportunity to get senior administrator experience and get a secret or TS/SCI clearance all while serving your country.