Military guy needing some advice

In a bit of a quandary. My enlistment ends in September, and I am really torn between staying in and getting out. I have a 9 1/2 years in so I am right at the halfway point for retirement at 38 years old. I have looked at both of the positives and the negatives of each, and I can't come up with what I feel is completely right answer.

My plan for if I got out is finish my bachelors in MIS, and then join the workforce.

Can some of you former military guys share your past experiences?

Non-military guys feel free to share your opinion also.

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sieff

9.5 years is a long time, I guess it depends on if you enjoy the military or not. I did 4 years Army and overall it was a good experience, but I knew I couldn't do any more time beyond my enlistment. I made sure that I had no debts or obligations that would hinder me getting out. I suppose if you don't love the day to day task involved with staying in and you've planned your exit... It's best to exit. If you feel it's worth it to do another 10 years and collect the retirement benefits than go for it. I'd also gauge how much pay you'd be missing out on if you stay. I recall as a E4, my highest rank when I left, the pay wasn't much. I lived in the barricks and barely had enough money to live equal to the bachelor lifestyle I had my first year out. My first job out of the Army was $40K as a IT contractor.

da_vato

What's driving this question? Are you dissatisfied with your unit, the lifestyle, deployments or other reason?

For me family obligations got in the way of me completing my career. I will tell you this which I wish someone would have shared with me: your first job out might be similar or even more pay than you receive now but know your disposable income will most likely drop. As service members our BAH, COLA, seperats and/or what ever other special pay you receive is not taxable where outside the military every bit of your paycheck is taxable (you'll be surprised when you actually see what I'm talking about).

You should probably look at the cons of getting out and research those with fellow veterans because the truth of the matter you know the cons of staying cause your living it right now where as becoming a civilian is speculation cause you haven't attempted it. You may find that the cons are not as bad as you expect (or the other side of that coin).

subsooner711

da_vato wrote: »

What's driving this question? Are you dissatisfied with your unit, the lifestyle, deployments or other reason?

For me family obligations got in the way of me completing my career. I will tell you this which I wish someone would have shared with me: your first job out might be similar or even more pay than you receive now but know your disposable income will most likely drop. As service members our BAH, COLA, seperats and/or what ever other special pay you receive is not taxable where outside the military every bit of your paycheck is taxable (you'll be surprised when you actually see what I'm talking about).

You should probably look at the cons of getting out and research those with fellow veterans because the truth of the matter you know the cons of staying cause your living it right now where as becoming a civilian is speculation cause you haven't attempted it. You may find that the cons are not as bad as you expect (or the other side of that coin).

Kind of a combination of family and dissatisfaction of lifestyle. My wife is family oriented, and it is hard on her being away from her family. I also feel like I can improve our lifestyle quite a bit by getting out. The money isn't terrible, but I feel for the amount of work, deployments, and the lifestyle in general the money isn't worth it.

If I get out the money won't flow right away while I finish up school, but I just feel once I push through school I will open up a ton of great opportunities.

Being halfway to a retirement at such an early age is hard for me to give up.

SteveLord

You can easily get back in shortly after you decide to get out. But you can't get out, shortly after you decide to stay in.

That was how I looked at it after my initial 8. And that is what I tell everyone else. Was a good decision for me. I still have the itch, but being I just turned 29...I still have plenty of time to go back.

SephStorm

Out. 100% but that's me. 20+ years in you have been in management for a number of years, do you expect to continue to do management when you get out? You say you want to get an MIS, From what i've seen, the margin for that to truly benefit you is slim. Plenty of people with advanced degrees on the street, I'd rather see someone with on the job experience, and before you say it, look at my last statement. If I were hiring for a technical position and saw someone with 10+ years of military experience, I would assume that you havent done any technical work in the last few years.

Ultimately you ave to ask yourself what is going to make you happy, for me its getting out.

EDIT: Just finished reading some of the replies, including yours. Prior service are not given priority if you get out. It can be difficult.

As for money, if you are thinking about getting out, SAVE, 6 months out, full paychecks, as much as you can. Pay off your car, pay your 6 month car insurance premium.

Whiteout

SteveLord wrote: »

You can easily get back in shortly after you decide to get out. But you can't get out, shortly after you decide to stay in.

That was how I looked at it after my initial 8. And that is what I tell everyone else. Was a good decision for me. I still have the itch, but being I just turned 29...I still have plenty of time to go back.

It is much harder to get back in these days, as our military is downsizing. Unless your career field is in high demand, your best bet of getting back in is the reserve or guard.

sieff

Evaluate debt also... When I got out I was 21, no kids, no family, no debts. So it was a much easier transition for me... Also I was an E4, which was a pretty low pay job. After 2-3 years out I was making as much as a Captain, so in my situation it was a no brainer.

hellolin

How did you guys find employment that quick? I got out 2 years ago, after being in the navy for 5 years. Currently a Junior standing in a B&M state college studying for my CIS degree. Since we are pretty much all veterans here in this thread, do you guys know any resources out here, particularly in IT, that targets veterans? So far I have applied some internships though school but I felt the employers are all looking for younger, brighter guys that is ready to work, but my point is how do you except people still in school to know everything already? So far I am feeling not so many people out here treasures the military experience much...even though my experience isn't IT related but it's working experience nonetheless...

newt.chapman

hellolin wrote: »

How did you guys find employment that quick? I got out 2 years ago, after being in the navy for 5 years. Currently a Junior standing in a B&M state college studying for my CIS degree. Since we are pretty much all veterans here in this thread, do you guys know any resources out here, particularly in IT, that targets veterans? So far I have applied some internships though school but I felt the employers are all looking for younger, brighter guys that is ready to work, but my point is how do you except people still in school to know everything already? So far I am feeling not so many people out here treasures the military experience much...even though my experience isn't IT related but it's working experience nonetheless...

I'm currently in the Air Force but I saw this in the news the other day: Fact Sheet: Administration Partners with Industry to Get Service Members Credentialed for High-Demand Jobs | The White House

Which then led to some searching because it didn't really mention where to sign up... I ended up finding some information on the new partnership through Ciscos website: https://learningnetwork.cisco.com/community/careers/career_development/military (see: Joining
Forces Initiative: IT Training and Certification Program) Which led me to https://usitpipeline.com/network_and_computer_systems_administrator

I signed up for an account on there but I haven't put it to much use yet. Gonna talk to my superiors about it down the line and see what they think about it.

sieff

I think military experience would cross over well. It really depends on who you put your resume in front of. I'd say nowadays it's about networking... when I got out (early 2000s) IT and telecom was still pretty in demand, not everybody was a "cyber-security expert". At my last job we recently hired a vet as a Data Center Engineer, but initially he was a cold-calling inside sales guy. He really worked himself up, now what's odd is that he was a 1LT when he got out.... I always imagined those guys got really high-paying corporate jobs when they got out???

SteveLord

You can find work as long as you aren't sitting on your butt waiting for it to find you. This is what many people do unfortunately. They sit and whine about how their job sucks, the economy sucks, job market sucks, the POTUS sucks, etc.

Then when you ask them if they've been looking for work, their response is usually "Oh yeah, I put my resume (which sucks) on careerbuilder and monster." Like they busted their ass doing that....

Treat finding a job, like you would treat the military HR. And that is often nothing gets done, unless you pursue it and stay on top of it. Ya know...like pay, bonus and promotion issues.

da_vato

Now do remember that if you were to get a government job your time served can be rolled over to use towards retirement, the rules are different for each agency. I got out and found an awesome DOD contracting job and am riding it out for right now and really strengthening my résumé and networking. Because I had 13 years active there is no way I will let that go to waste, in the next year or two I am going to jump on the DOD civilian side and put that time to use.

chapman has some great advice with the credentialing initiative, I don't qualify or I would look into it myself.

stevelord is absolutely correct also, if you are proactive you will find a job. Veterans are sought after right now for a multitude of reasons that I will not discuss here. ACAP will give you all the ins and outs for building your résumé and the verbiage to use or many of us here can help.

hellolin

Hey thanks a lot my fellow vets, this thread helps me out a lot! There are vets in my school that are having the same problems with me, having trouble working with 19-20 something year olds that just got out of their house...But hey this is what I get for going to a regular B&M state college. It's cheap and close to where I live, and I do get the campus experience, but just confused about where my future is since I didn't have any IT experience before. Listening to some older vets in my school talk about their horrible civilian job experience before they went to school did not help either...Since I see there are so much vets on this board I think we should form a thread or group that's targeted to help other vets out, such as cert study help (I know a lot vets DO need help on how to study, not the material but the way to study), job finding help, advices and such. I am also very glad that I got a lot good answers from all the vets here, good luck guys!

the_hutch

Currently in the AF as an E-5. No brainer for me. I'm getting out as soon as my contract is up. I wish it was as early as September. Good luck friend. You got this.

Valsacar

I just want to point something out, if you have a clearance you need to go reserves or jump into the workforce right away. Clearances go inactive when you no longer need them (for working purposes) and many companies (that work in the DoD circles) want you to have an active clearance.

If you don't want to work in the government/DoD circles then don't worry about it.

hellolin

also anyone know any IT companies that hire are veteran friendly, or active looking for veterans who has IT certs or degrees?

Valsacar

hellolin wrote: »

also anyone know any IT companies that hire are veteran friendly, or active looking for veterans who has IT certs or degrees?

Most of the government contractors are vet friendly. GD/GDIT, BAE, BAH, NG, etc. I know GDIT (I work for them) are always looking for vets (especially those with an active clearance) that have 8570 certs, depending on where in the world you are/want to work.

abramsgunner

The other side of the coin... I did my 4 and got out (spent my GI Bill and Army College Fund), but about half the staff at my shop had 20+ years in various branches... We are a small shop that deals with SMB's break/fix, the type that does a little bit of everything. Our pay scale is faily low, with most of the guys making $13-$14 (not bad for lower Alabama, A+ technician wages). Those guys with 20+ years are pulling a government check each month, then working 40 hours for their regular pay... *grin. Gives you a lot of flexibility in when and where you want to work.

Blackout

I crossed over last year after 10 years in the Navy, I wasn't even an IT. I am happy now making less money than I ever was in the Navy (Eventually this will even out). I don't feel like I am under a microscope anymore, I am free to make decisions for my family without the military getting involved. Sure its more stressful but I have learned so much since I got out, I don't have to worry about moving anymore, I can move if I want to, no more deployments, I can come home daily to my kids.
Ultimately I think allot of people don't make the jump because they are scared of the unknown, so much can go wrong, but like my old man told me "Don't ever be scared of losing your job, go there work your ass off, and good things will happen, no sense in worrying about something you have no control over". It is stressful but can be very rewarding.

da_vato

hellolin wrote: »

I think we should form a thread or group that's targeted to help other vets out, such as cert study help (I know a lot vets DO need help on how to study, not the material but the way to study), job finding help, advices and such

I think this is a great idea since getting out of the military is not an easy thing to for service members or the family. When you're getting out advice like this is not easily found plus there are many variables that can change ones experience from another.

BigMevy

Valsacar made a good point about security clearances, I don't recall the details but they go inactive fairly quickly after you get out. I want to say it was 6 months, but I could be wrong.

Obviously if your wife is unhappy, that's a serious factor to consider. I hesitate to offer my perspective because frankly it's been a while since I got out, and it's a lot different today than it was when I separated. I'm guessing you're going on a lot more deployments, and spending more time away than you'd like.

My only suggestion would be to consider how long you have left before your enlistment is up and how much you can get done in the meantime. I had a friend who worked his butt off his last year in and got his MCSE done, and essentially jumped from being in to working as an IT manager (for Lockheed, government contract) within 6 months. He got that due to careful planning and preparation (and a little luck). While it would be nice to already have your degree completed, how much do you have left to finish?

I know it took me a few years to build up to where it started paying off vs my military pay. I still look back occasionally and wonder how things might have been different if I stayed in, if I had I'd be looking at retirement next year. But I got out after 5, and you're almost half-way there now. It's a tough call, good luck whichever way you go.

instant000

subsooner711 wrote: »

In a bit of a quandary. My enlistment ends in September, and I am really torn between staying in and getting out. I have a 9 1/2 years in so I am right at the halfway point for retirement at 38 years old. I have looked at both of the positives and the negatives of each, and I can't come up with what I feel is completely right answer.

My plan for if I got out is finish my bachelors in MIS, and then join the workforce.

Can some of you former military guys share your past experiences?

Non-military guys feel free to share your opinion also.

1. What is your MOS?
2. Doing school only is not what I would recommend. I would recommend working, and going to school part-time. Experience trumps education.

My experience has been this:
1 - Before getting out, got Microsoft certs. Soon after getting out, got Cisco credentials.
2 - Secured my first job in KS, private sector, pay bump.
3 - Moved to texas, private sector, pay bump
4 - Contracting gig #1, pay bump
5 - Contracting gig #2, pay bump
6 - Contracting gig #3, pay bump
7 - Contracting gig #4, pay bump

If I knew your career field, I could probably provide better advice.

If you were 25 series, with 9.5 years exp enlisted you'd be around E-7, which would be a platoon level NCO. I'd recommend getting your CISSP and jumping on a contract gig. Once you get into position, work at your credentials, and keep looking out for bigger gigs. Contracts come and go. You want to keep improving yourself, so you can be ready for that next job. As you build up your credentials, be on the lookout for recruiters and let them know your intentions and where you want to go. Trust me, if they can find something that matches what you're looking for, they'll be more than glad to send it your way.

I didn't really get a plan until about three years ago, and I'm already making 50% more than I was then.

So, you kind of have to decide what you want, first of all, then strategize on how you could get there. Pick out something you want to really do, and look at what the job description requires. Then, build yourself up to target that specific kind of position.

Hope this helps.

hellolin

da_vato wrote: »

I think this is a great idea since getting out of the military is not an easy thing to for service members or the family. When you're getting out advice like this is not easily found plus there are many variables that can change ones experience from another.

yeah man in my state school I only know one other vets who is studying CIS or tech major, most vet I know are studying easy majors like liberal arts and such...it is rare to meet vets who studies and interested in the IT field in the first place

gunbunnysoulja

BigMevy wrote: »

Valsacar made a good point about security clearances, I don't recall the details but they go inactive fairly quickly after you get out. I want to say it was 6 months, but I could be wrong.

Everything I have seen (and experienced) is it is 2 years for Secret. After that, you need to do another SF86.

dmoore44

hellolin wrote: »

yeah man in my state school I only know one other vets who is studying CIS or tech major, most vet I know are studying easy majors like liberal arts and such...it is rare to meet vets who studies and interested in the IT field in the first place

I find it depends on what the vet did while in, or is interested in doing now that they're out. A lot of guys that were MPs will probably study criminal justice and attempt to get on board with one of the Federal LEOs or other police force. Guys who worked in contracts or finance will probably study business and go that route. If you worked with technology while on the inside... you probably got your degree using tuition assistance and will use your GI Bill for a masters (which is how I and a bunch of my comrades handled the situation). Also, vets are most likely going to be working once they get out, so they're probably enrolled in online programs instead of going to a B&M school.

WafflesAndRootbeer

hellolin wrote: »

also anyone know any IT companies that hire are veteran friendly, or active looking for veterans who has IT certs or degrees?

You can find them anywhere, where defense contractors are present, which is anywhere with military bases. Unfortunately, the US military has been steering Iraq/Afghanistan vets - specifically those who were not in any applicable IT-related MOS - towards getting IT training and certs so that the DOD contractors can have a pool of talent that looks good on the books, so things have gotten competitive and low-balling is common. If you did something IT related in the service you were a member of, make sure you find a way to leverage that so that you stand out amongst the other applicants and seek out jobs that are similar to what you did when you wore the uniform.

hellolin

WafflesAndRootbeer wrote: »

You can find them anywhere, where defense contractors are present, which is anywhere with military bases. Unfortunately, the US military has been steering Iraq/Afghanistan vets - specifically those who were not in any applicable IT-related MOS - towards getting IT training and certs so that the DOD contractors can have a pool of talent that looks good on the books, so things have gotten competitive and low-balling is common. If you did something IT related in the service you were a member of, make sure you find a way to leverage that so that you stand out amongst the other applicants and seek out jobs that are similar to what you did when you wore the uniform.

too bad I didn't get involved with any IT work while I was in the navy because I wasn't granted a secert clearence, which is why I am not working and fully devoted to get this CIS degree. I know a lot vets that got out with me at the same time never looked into get into school, even though they have the GI bill money sit there waiting for them

spicy ahi

You can always hedge your bets and transition into the reserves/guard. Find a unit close by our an IMA unit that would let you commute from out of state if you don't have a unit close by. You maintain a lot of the benefits and only have to commit a weekend a month and two weeks a year. If your plan doesn't work out, it's easier to transition back into active service as well (I think whiteout mentioned that as well) If your plan does work out and you make a successful transition into the civilian workforce, staying in the reserve allows you to work towards that 20 so you won't waste your time.

Granted, the earliest you can start collecting is 55, but the more important thing is the benefits you keep while a reservist like commissary/PX privileges and my favorite (which I pray doesn't go away) TriCare Reserve. Since you mentioned that you have family, I would point that particular piece out. If you can get a cheap plan through your employer, being double covered means no copays and if you live close to a base, you can pick up most of your medications at the base pharmacy. And if your employer's plan is to expensive, Tricare reserve is more than enough (currently; I keep hearing and reading rumors of changes) coverage for a family. That right there can be an easy savings of up to $1k in health insurance payments!

However you decide to go, I hope you luck in your decision!

SteveLord

Well said Spicy. The Guard typically has better benefits and definitely has way more units than the Reserves. It's a great gig considering the educational and health insurance benefits alone

SephStorm

hellolin wrote: »

How did you guys find employment that quick? I got out 2 years ago, after being in the navy for 5 years. Currently a Junior standing in a B&M state college studying for my CIS degree. Since we are pretty much all veterans here in this thread, do you guys know any resources out here, particularly in IT, that targets veterans? So far I have applied some internships though school but I felt the employers are all looking for younger, brighter guys that is ready to work, but my point is how do you except people still in school to know everything already? So far I am feeling not so many people out here treasures the military experience much...even though my experience isn't IT related but it's working experience nonetheless...

Networking with other people in or interested in IT, talking to contractors that you work with. (I could no doubt get in at the same place I work now as a civilian, not likely to do so though). Also, look for job fairs, both online and in person. If the positions are not local to you, consider moving, if you are married or have dependents, consider the extreme but effective method of accepting a distant position and you go to work in that location for 6 months, a year, ect and send what you can home.

List lab experience on your resume, also try to run into IT people, join a LUG (Linux User Group) or a local 2600 chapter, or a personal favorite, go to your local Books a Million or Barnes & Noble, and wait by the computer books. Someone will show up.

If you are attending a physical college, see about becoming a TA, see if the instructor can get you some hands-on time after class, they'll lead you to opportunities.

The point is, you have to go above and beyond. Sitting around sending out resumes is no longer the way to get a job, if it ever was. Finally, since you mentioned school, I would see if your school has IT certificate programs, even if you plan on getting a degree, consider enrolling in those programs first so you have something rather just a school enrollment.