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Tips on what to say during salary discussions

sparten

Ok so I am going in for an interview for a company, but I dont know theyre budget or usual salary range so I really dont know what to expect. All I know is that the position is for a jr sys / network admin job in the tristate area, and they are a for-profit local business that has been established for several years now.

With that said, I need some tips on what to say when an offer is being discussed in person. Does anyone have any useful blogs / resources that may help on this topic?

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Comments

Haunt

From what I've read on things like this is that you want to avoid discussing actual numbers when you're first interviewing and you never want to give them your "minimum salary requirements" and you especially don't want to tell them what you were making at your previous/current job because it puts you at a big disadvantage. What you want to do is deflect those questions back to them by asking them what the salary range is for the position. You want to try and get the numbers out of them rather than the other way around.

Check these videos out by this guy named Ramit Sethi who writes about this type of stuff:

Ask Ramit: Negotiating your Salary - YouTube

This video is particularly interesting because it plays out a scenario of actual salary discussion and how you should handle it:

Negotiation 101: introduction. - YouTube

sparten

Thanks, btw, what do you think of the idea of asking the interviewer what their company budget for the position is and trying to work with them based on the answer they give? Good idea or no?

Haunt

I would say to hold on it and not give them specific numbers still. You want to discuss specifics once the job has been offered to you because it gives you much more leverage.

boobobobobob

Do NOT lie about what you currently make. They might ask you for proof!

sparten

boobobobobob wrote: »

Do NOT lie about what you currently make. They might ask you for proof!

eh, As far as I know, you dont have to give them proof, that's personal information. And your current employer shouldn't be able to release that information to random people without your permission. You shouldn't be forced to show documentation of how much your current income is, basic etiquette tbh -_-.

If they asked how much I make i would just give them some random number, and If they asked for proof, I would simply tell them im under an NDA or something where I cant release my financial documents. They can take it or leave it, why should I have to prove anything?

Raisin

In the US employers can ask for proof of your previous salary and if you refuse to provide it they can withdraw the job offer. I believe you're better off being honest about what you make. Of course I would resist offering up any hard numbers until a real offer was on the table. I'd just tell them I'm not giving out confidential information until I'm farther along in the hiring process.

Xyro

When one is asked for "proof" of previous salary, what would one provide?

photocopied check?
print-out of direct deposit?
tax-return?

paul78

Usually its copy of tax return - just the first page. Its probably more common in sales - my wife was in sales and she always had to provide it. The most common approach is via employee verification. We always ask the previous employer. In US, employers will typically limit disclosure to 3 things - title, salary, and dates or employment but usually nothing else.

@op - I would not ask the prospective employer about their budget. Its not likely to be something that would be discussed. At least for me, if a job candidate asked me, I would never disclose it and it would be a turn-off. Its better to discuss why the employer is looking to hire someone.

boobobobobob

sparten wrote: »

eh, As far as I know, you dont have to give them proof, that's personal information. And your current employer shouldn't be able to release that information to random people without your permission. You shouldn't be forced to show documentation of how much your current income is, basic etiquette tbh -_-.

Yes, proving your salary is definitely a choice, and you do not have to submit it if you do not want to. My current job I got from a headhunter and during the salary negotiation process I was asked to submit proof. Of course I didn't have to, but I did not I wouldn't have been given a offer.

Xyro

paul78 wrote: »

Usually its copy of tax return - just the first page...

Thank you Paul, very informative - as always.

apr911

Ive never been asked for proof from a company and honestly, it'd be hard to actually prove or disprove you make what you say. The tax return is a nice idea but until recently, there was a lot of stuff missing from the tax return. I.e. What does the company pay for your benefits? Does the company match 401k?

These are all forms of compensation that dont get listed on your tax return (though again, this is changing) as gross income. It also doesnt account for partial year payouts or your current compensation situation (i.e. you get a raise last June, your tax return will only show 6 months of your new salary or you got a raise in January, your tax return will only show last years pay). Finally, there's the fact that there is no insight to into how your gross income is divvied up. Your tax return simply says you made X, it does not explain that you made A from salary, B from shift differential/on-call stipend, C from bonus (which is often a percentage of your pay times a company performance modifier) and D from picking up extra shifts.

I agree you shouldn't lie about what you make but not because they may try to call you on. Im more of a believer in the idea that your current and past income is a private matter, you know what you're worth, you know what you're asking for and you know what benefits can make or break the deal.

My personal belief is that if the company is unwilling to negotiate with you without knowing your details of your salary upfront, then they likely want to offer a salary based on your past value not the value you are currently worth or the future value you may be to the company. Unfortunately, your past value has likely appreciated since the time your current employer last assessed your value especially since those who've been promoted into the role are generally paid less than those hired for a role and its possible you havent been promoted or given a raise in some time (hey you have to be looking for a new job for some reason).

The debate of what you should and should not disclose to a prospective employer during salary negotiations has been had out on this board many times in the past with both sides weighing in (disclose most or everything - current salary/expected salary/etc vs disclose nothing). Its up to you to find what works best for you both have strengths both have weaknesses.

paul78

In my experience, most companies aren't really that concerned about actuals. It's really a way to gauge if the prospective candidate is taking such a big jump that the candidate may be underqualified if previous employers were not willing to compensate the candidate in the past.

Its also good due diligence by any employer. In certain industries, like financial services, the employer has a regulatory obligation to exercise due care and previous employment verification is one dimension of such screening.

pert

Most companies can find out what you are making if they dig through records. So I wouldn't lie. When I was severely underpaid and applying for jobs people would ask me my current salary and I just told them it was private. It didn't go over well all the time, not going to pretend it did. Let's be honest though, you're goal is to get payed X. If they won't accept the answer that it's private than they sure as heck won't give you the raise you're looking for either. However high you set your bar, by definition you are excluding all jobs below that bar. If that makes you uncomfortable than re-assess where the bar should be at.

In my experience, the minimum you'd leave your current job for is the different from the minimum you'd be satisfied with at that new job. I would use the second number as your actual minimum. Your goal is to find people who believe you are worth that number, not find people who don't believe it and then try to convince them. That will absolutely not work.

NetworkVeteran

+1 Honesty. I could handle "I'd rather not say", but a lie would be an almost certainly mean no job offer. The most common method of verification I've seen is asking my current employer's HR department to provide a letter stating my title, dates of employment, and salary. Doing so (once) didn't prevent me from asking for and receiving a significant increase.

powerfool

Uh... you guys really think that you don't have to provide proof if they really want it? That's a bit naive. If they really want it, you either provide it or consider your employment terminated. That is how that works.

Now, if you are okay with that, then so be it and you will get praise from me. I have turned down to provide that sort of documentation before and just passed on the opportunity. My current employer wanted proof, but they never asked me what I made... they asked me what I wanted and we just negotiated... but during orientation, I had to bring in my previous W-2.

I think that the whole idea of them asking what you previously made if horribly unbalanced. They certainly are not going to tell you what previous and current employees with similar responsibilities earns. They are going to attempt to get you for the best price that they can, just like you are going to try and make as much money as you can. That is how economics works.

That being said... I tend to focus on what I need to make to be more comfortable than I am. If I am happy at my current job, I definitely need more compensation. If I am looking for any escape route that I can find, I may actually be willing to take less. I have only ever taken less money in two situations, both of which were when I was unemployed. First time was for a year and I had no certs, no education, and very little experience; I took about 18% less and did that for six months. The next time I had a couple of respected certifications, a BS, and several years of progressive experience; I took about 5% less and did that for three weeks. In all other situations, I have received a pay increase.

You cannot discount other forms of compensation and job perks. I have fantastic benefits right now... my PPO premium for my family is ~$160 month... I have about $2m in total insurance on my life (in various forms... regular life insurance, AD&D, etc), 10% of my salary into a retirement account with no contribution on my part, tuition reimbursement, paid training, a month of PTO, many discounts, a very flexible schedule, and the ability to telecommute on a reasonable basis. Someone offering my the same pay (which happened, though I gave them my minimum based on my total compensation) or a small increase in salary likely isn't going to cut it because I very highly doubt I will have benefits that are even comparable (although I have had better benefits on two other occasions, but these situation are getting fewer with each passing year). YOU CANNOT OVERLOOK THIS STUFF.

bryguy

I've been in the same position where my current employer asked for my previous compensation. I provided it, but the amount I cited was the total compensation which included all my benefits. That added an additional 10k to the base salary I was making... My current employer matched it (not including benefits). I didn't have to lie, and I came out ahead.

Tooms

"Out of respect for my previous employers I do not choose to share their salary information"

I've used it about 3 times in my career. Never questioned and I got the job every time.