What would you think if your interviewer admitted..

Gorby

So I had an intervew on Monday for a network admin position and the manager was bragging to me about braindumping the CCNA, CCNA Security and was dumping for his CCNP. He went as far as to state that most the the question he got right were from his ****. I was kind of suprised that he even admitted using them to me, but I didn't comment on it. In that situation, what would you guys think or do? Would you still want to work with him as your manager?

pitviper

Depends – without being in the room it’s kind of hard to make a character judgment of the interviewer… maybe it was a test?

Corndork2

Thats a hard one....

Using braindumps is against the testing policy. Providing information to dumping providers is also against the testing policy. Cisco can revoke your certs for this kind of thing.

I cant make a determination based on only this information but I can definitely say it would raise a serious red flag with me.

I would also be worried about working for someone who may not fully understand the technology. There's nothing worse than working for management that doesnt understand what needs to be done to accomplish the goal.

DigitalZeroOne

Maybe that was a ploy to see how you felt about ****, and if you had admitted (not saying you do/did) to using any, then he would bust you.

krjay

Assuming everything else about the company seems promising I'd be happy. It will catch up with him some day and his position will be yours for the taking.

networker050184

I'd say thanks but no thanks. Not the type of person I'd like to work for. Cheating is one thing, but being proud and bragging? No thanks.

DigitalZeroOne wrote: »

Maybe that was a ploy to see how you felt about ****, and if you had admitted (not saying you do/did) to using any, then he would bust you.

Thanks but no thanks here as well. Not looking to play games either.

j23evan

I've had interviewers ask me if I have used ****. Which I found insulting. Yeah I paid $30,000 in classes to use brain ****. In the long run though, I think if the person you interviewed with has in fact used them to get where he is, his ignorance will be exposed during an emergency and that should hasten him out the door. On the bright side depending on the financial offer, why not take it? And if the person told you to do something stupid, say settle down paper tiger; the person that genuinely gained these credentials will handle it.

Concerned Water

networker050184 wrote: »

I'd say thanks but no thanks. Not the type of person I'd like to work for. Cheating is one thing, but being proud and bragging? No thanks.



Thanks but no thanks here as well. Not looking to play games either.

Agreed. I feel for whatever reason, that's not professional.

Gorby

I didn't really respond to him when he was bragging about it, I was thinking to myself how surprised I was that he said that in the interview. I just listened and changed the subject to other questions I had about the job. Also I didn't really like his personality he seemed a bit cocky and said he hated when others asked him questions. It pays 8K more than what I'm making now though which is a saving grace other than getting some hands on so if I was offered it's something that I would have to sleep hard on..

networker050184

Gorby wrote: »

Also I didn't really like his personality he seemed a bit cocky and said he hated when others asked him questions.

Definitely wouldn't want to work for a guy like this.

Gorby wrote: »

It pays 8K more than what I'm making now.....

I'd probably give up more than $8k not to work for someone like that. Remember you are going to have to work with/for this guy every day for the foreseeable futurte.

Gorby

networker050184 wrote: »

Definitely wouldn't want to work for a guy like this.




I'd probably give up more than $8k not to work for someone like that. Remember you are going to have to work with/for this guy every day for the foreseeable futurte.

Thanks, I'm thinking about this myself since if hired he would be my team lead. I'm going to turn it down because I won't want to put myself in a bad situation where I hate my job. I'm wondering how he even got that far with his attitude..

Polynomial

While using brain **** is a questionable form of taking the tests I actually think the area is more gray than it sounds.

Its entirely plausible for some guy to be brilliant in VMware, Cisco, storage, whatever but be poor at taking tests. Its one of those ends justify the means debates. What would you do if you're a family provider and raises were attached to certifications? I'd brain ****.

I wouldn't want to work with a guy like that though.

About7Narwhal

@Polynomial

While I respect your freedom to have such an opinion, I think you will find that no one around here will agree with you. Being a bad test taker does not justify cheating. If I were a family provider and needed a certification, I would take pride in my ethics and work twice as hard to overcome my weaknesses.

To quote a recent Ars Technica article which recalls a statement by Sony's Shuhei Yoshida: That is one interpretation, but I do not consider it correct.

Polynomial

About7Narwhal wrote: »

@Polynomial

While I respect your freedom to have such an opinion, I think you will find that no one around here will agree with you. Being a bad test taker does not justify cheating. If I were a family provider and needed a certification, I would take pride in my ethics and work twice as hard to overcome my weaknesses.

Completely fair!

While I wouldn't toss my ethics out of the window for everything, I would toss them out over a certification test if my family needed the support. The nobility of working twice as hard to overcome hurdles does not always interface well with realities like mortgages.

YFZblu

Probably a test. HOPEFULLY it was a test. Eek.

gorebrush

I'd probably sound him out on it - dumping is bad, mmmkay.

networker050184

Ok guys and gals lets keep it on topic. We are not going to debate whether cheating is justifiable or not here.

vinbuck

networker050184 wrote: »

Ok guys and gals lets keep it on topic. We are not going to debate whether cheating is justifiable or not here.

While we are at it, I've got some ideas about religion and politics i'd like to share

Back on topic...ditch the company. I agree with Networker, if they can't shoot straight with you on the front end then you will not be a happy camper there.

GoodBishop

I'd ask yourself is that the kind of manager that I want to work for.

pitviper

Polynomial wrote: »

Its entirely plausible for some guy to be brilliant in VMware, Cisco, storage, whatever but be poor at taking tests.

"Bad test taker" is nothing more than a cop out for being unprepared.

Zartanasaurus

I've often been shocked at the openness of people who admit to dumping. I've even seen instructors from well known training companies pass out **** and brag about how accurate they are.

spicy ahi

I'd be wary of working for an admitted ****. Especially as a team lead who may be in charge of projects *shudder*. I've worked for two people that were cheats and every project they ran failed miserably. Athough in my half glass full point of view, I certainly learned how to fix screwed up projects. Good move avoiding this goat rope.

NetworkVeteran

networker050184 wrote: »

I'd probably give up more than $8k not to work for someone like that. Remember you are going to have to work with/for this guy every day for the foreseeable futurte.

+1. I'd also need a more significant bump to deal with a manager low in both character and discretion. I'd also worry that either he's not very bright and doesn't realize interviews check for this, or their corporate culture is broken and rewards such behaviors rather than performance. I'd probably gather more info--"I've always felt a key benefit of my certifications was learning new skills I could apply on the job. I'm curious.. what do you feel you gain by dumping you way through?"

nkillgore

Anyone with that sort of attitude about dumping is worth working for.

kj0

I had one interviewer ask me how I was going on my MCITP and then proceeded to tell me, "I hope you have a second shot lined up, If you fail the first time, always take the second shot, Most of the guys here have failed first go, but having the second shot definitely got them through it" - Which I thought was a good attitude. I didn't get the job as I was asking too high (I wasn't going to drop 30k just to get holiday and sick pay inc.)

However, If someone was dumping and was going to be your manager, just look past it and work with it as he will eventually get caught out - Or you will prevail and pass his knowledge. - But if he is cocky and has said that he hates people asking questions, then how is he going to go in a situation that you need him to lead you? You have to be able to ask questions. If you had a project to work on, would asking how he would do something and attempting to get more information out of him cause issues even though it is your job?

pitviper

kj0 wrote: »

However, If someone was dumping and was going to be your manager, just look past it and work with it as he will eventually get caught out - Or you will prevail and pass his knowledge.

Not necessarily the case – Some managers excel in hiding their ineptitudes and taking unwarranted credit behind the scenes. He could report to someone even less technical than him. It’s unfortunate but also not uncommon and it creates a toxic work environment.

NetworkVeteran

kj0 wrote: »

However, If someone was dumping and was going to be your manager, just look past it and work with it as he will eventually get caught out - Or you will prevail and pass his knowledge.

My concern is not whether such a manager gets "caught out", but rather than the manager is a key member of the team, who makes staffing choices and fights for the team politically to secure limited resources such as equipment and bonuses and raises. If you're going to tolerate weakness/poor character in that role, you should require some additional compensation in exchange. Everything is negotiable. I suspect my rate would be about $20-25k more, with the expectation I'd spend more time on internal politics.

blargoe

I would not work for someone if I knew going in that they have such low character.

Rosco2382

About7Narwhal wrote: »

@Polynomial

While I respect your freedom to have such an opinion, I think you will find that no one around here will agree with you. Being a bad test taker does not justify cheating. If I were a family provider and needed a certification, I would take pride in my ethics and work twice as hard to overcome my weaknesses.

To quote a recent Ars Technica article which recalls a statement by Sony's Shuhei Yoshida: That is one interpretation, but I do not consider it correct.

I don't really see how brain **** help you pass a test. I am also very ignorant to them as well, but memorizing that many questions surely is very difficult. I can barely memorize OSI model and thats a small portion of the Network+ exam.

pitviper wrote: »

"Bad test taker" is nothing more than a cop out for being unprepared.

I would have to disagree with you here if you are saying all people who say this fall into this category. I could not even fathom a % but I know a few people that truly fall into this category.

paul78

blargoe wrote: »

I would not work for someone if I knew going in that they have such low character.

Same here... For me, no amount of salary could compensate for lack of ethics. If this type of behavior was even an underlying hint of the culture at such an organization, it is not worth it. I still remeber Drexel Burnham and Enron.

Master Of Puppets

IMO, that's a test. No one in their right mind would confess that in an interview and be proud of it. I'm sticking to the test theory.