Notice requirments with Hostile Boss?

Hey guys,

What do you think is fair for a boss that creates hostile work environment? Say a boss that swears at you or your teammates... even if you do something right, like fix a problem, if he wanted a solution that was "prettier" and his way of expressing it is to throwout F-bombs at you and asked redundant questions like "You don't think I could have done that %^$^$% on my own if I wanted it done that way?"

And there about 20 more examples of flat out stuff like this... but this is the latest.. happened last night.

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Comments

GoodBishop

Two things.

First, start looking for a new job. It's not worth it having to work in a stressful work environment.

Second, start the HR process against this guy. Again, that attitude is unprofessional and should not be tolerated.

Admittedly, it is easier once you have a offer for a new job that pays more...

Zartanasaurus

I'd give the same notice I give anyone else with the expectation that he might be dumb enough to give me an unexpected 2 week vacation.

ajs1976

look for a new job and give them two weeks notice

Chitownjedi

Hrrm Ill keep that to myself lol

networker050184

Do you have a new job lined up yet? If so the only notice I'd give is good bye. You must give me respect to get it back.

redz

Two things:

networker050184 wrote: »

If so the only notice I'd give is good bye.

Two week notice is a professional courtesy. He's been neither professional nor courteous. Don't give two week notice, just find a new job and walk out.

GoodBishop wrote: »

start the HR process against this guy.

There's no good reason not to do this. Talk to your HR department about the problem.

Plantwiz

It is his or her company, so find something else or deal with it. From what you describe, things do not sound very professional, but then again, too many people are way too sensative and want the world to cater to their ideal behavior model (even when they may not do so themselves).

Look at the amount of turn-over in the place, if things are as bad as you stated then this is a good possible reason as to why employees come and go. If however, folks are sticking around for years, then decide if this place is a good fit for you or not. Once you leave, my guess is this person will fill your position and not think twice about it.

amcnow

@redz

Your first point is a little off-base. Many employers contractually require a two week notice (if not more) for business reasons. This is especially true in the professional services (consulting) and financial sectors. Failure to do can cause all sorts of problems in this scenario, up to and including litigation.

Even if the OP isn't contractually obligated to give proper notice, it's still a good idea. Walking out constitutes job abandonment either way. While not a legal issue in this case, the employer you walked out on can still use it against you when prospective employers contact them for verification of previous employment. Since many employers require a number of years of employment history, the decision to abandon a job can linger for a while. It's better to be safe than sorry. Just suck it up and give the proper notice.

Your second point is accurate. Always try to utilize the means available to resolve the issue. If the issue is resolved, then you still have reason to continue your current employment. If every avenue is exhausted with no resolution in sight, then you now have a scenario for your next round of interviews. It never fails for prospective employers to ask THAT question...

slinuxuzer

You always want to give proper notice, no matter if they deserve it or not, who knows who'll you'll run into down the road. I believe in about 99% of cases it won't make a big difference if you tell them why, I've been in this situation before and just leaving an saying your ready for a change is best.

BUT, I do suggest you leave, once you go to HR things may get better on the surface, but the issue will NOT go away, I've worked for people just as bad as what your talking about. I had a boss that would constantly come from lunch half drunk and curse everyone, HR felt they couldn't do anything because he knew the most about a proprietary MES/ERP system that needed constant attention. Now that I work for a decent boss that only cares about me getting my job done, I realize what a good situation is.

networker050184

I've never worked at a place that had any notice requirement. At-will employment laws state an employee or an employer can terminate the employment at anytime without notice. There are contract exceptions but from what I understand those mainly apply to firing employees and not the other way around but I'm no lawyer.

ptilsen

amcnow wrote: »

@redzYour first point is a little off-base. Many employers contractually require a two week notice (if not more) for business reasons. This is especially true in the professional services (consulting) and financial sectors. Failure to do can cause all sorts of problems in this scenario, up to and including litigation.

Many employers is a stretch, in my opinion. I have never been offered such a job, and I literally don't know a single person who has. I've don't even know of it happening outside of in TV shows and movies. The vast majority of employment in the United States, as far as I can tell, is entirely at will with no sort of contractual penalties on how much notice is given.

That being said, I wouldn't recommend not giving two weeks, especially if it's just a hostile boss. I would plan to tough it out for two weeks after quitting. It is a professional courtesy to your employer (not your boss), and prospective and future employers generally appreciate it. And on that note, I wouldn't quit if you haven't brought this up to HR. Unless your boss somehow has unshakeable job security, this is the sort of thing that would and should get him fired at most organizations.

redz

I've never seen a situation where an employee was contractually obligated to give notice. I've worked in consulting for four or five years now, both freelance and with a couple different companies. I don't doubt that they exist - in fact I'd kind of be surprised if they didn't - it's just something that I haven't seen before.

Job abandonment is leaving without informing your employer of your intent not to return. When I think "walk out", I think "Here's my badge; I won't be back", which I'm pretty sure only legally constitutes "burning bridges". I should have been more clear about that. It can linger for a while, but I'd rather have to explain it in an interview than allow someone who's already proven to be highly unprofessional the opportunity to force me to take a couple weeks unpaid vacation.

Either way, whether I'm right or wrong about that (and I may be wrong), going to HR should be the first action taken. Even if the person owns the company, speaking with HR is the first priority. Whether you even want the problem solved, it at least displays to potential employers that you can take the appropriate course of action to address problems in your professional and managerial interactions.

amcnow

networker050184 wrote: »

I've never worked at a place that had any notice requirement. At-will employment laws state an employee or an employer can terminate the employment at anytime without notice. There are contract exceptions but from what I understand those mainly apply to firing employees and not the other way around but I'm no lawyer.

As far as I know, the collective bargaining exception applies mainly to employers. The contract exception can (and in many cases does) apply to both sides. Then again, I'm not a lawyer either. I'm just speaking from personal experience.

NetworkVeteran

networker050184 wrote: »

If so the only notice I'd give is good bye. You must give me respect to get it back.

+1. I would not tolerate that behavior and would leave a.s.a.p.

WGUGeekGirl

Sounds like a real hostile environment. With the info I'm hearing now, I'd start looking for and secure a new job, contact HR, put in two weeks notice if at all possible, pray my way through a final two weeks (albeit difficult as it may be, if you don't HAVE to burn a bridge, it is normally best not to because you may have no choice but to cross it in the future, yikes), and then hightail it out of there! What you choose to do in your situation is completely up to you, and I hope and pray it works out for the best!

milieu

Giving notice is a professional courtesy, and not required. The only exception is if you are working under a contract that requires it.

In fact, it is not uncommon for an employee to give notice, and be immediately fired, because the employer doesn't want them around for the two weeks. Given how the boss has behaved, if you do give notice, I would be ready to be fired on the spot.

Start looking now. If you already have somewhere to go, I'd leave on the spot the next time he treats you like that.

coreyb80

Chitwonjedi didn't you land another gig already?

kohr-ah

milieu wrote: »

Giving notice is a professional courtesy, and not required. The only exception is if you are working under a contract that requires it.

In fact, it is not uncommon for an employee to give notice, and be immediately fired, because the employer doesn't want them around for the two weeks. Given how the boss has behaved, if you do give notice, I would be ready to be fired on the spot.

Start looking now. If you already have somewhere to go, I'd leave on the spot the next time he treats you like that.

I can vouch for that. Our company here where I am at now once I give my 2 weeks notice (hopefully soon) they terminate us on the spot.

They say it is for damage control. So that we dont go emailing customers and stuff for next 2 weeks.

NetworkVeteran

kohr-ah wrote: »

I can vouch for that. Our company here where I am at now once I give my 2 weeks notice (hopefully soon) they terminate us on the spot.

If you're salaried, when they do that, you typically get paid for the remainder of the two-week salary period.

Win-win.

Chitownjedi

coreyb80 wrote: »

Chitwonjedi didn't you land another gig already?

Hey Coreyb80..

I sure did, the background check took like 3 weeks, and I just got official word yesterday that I was all set. I gave my notice and he wanted to know why I was leaving and all that... I told him of course that as a "Network Engineer" I was expecting to have a chance to get into networking and do more of it.... and do you know he pulled then

"So what if I told you, and actually, this is quite funny, I was just about to present you with additional networking responsibilities next week!

I said, "If you told me that, I would believe it was only being offered to entice me to stay as a counter offer, but I am only going based on some of the tech forums and about 10 articles I've read on how this exact situation could play out."

His face was

The he asked me "Are you calling me a liar?!:

I said, " No, but you asked me what I would say.. from my prospective, and what I've observe first hand, and from others in this situation, it would be a tactic, and not really authentic."

And there were tons of more of those little moments. Definitely being aware of common counter offer hi-jinks helped. It's like he followed a textbook.

added: But we did settle on an amount of time I would assist on transition. I was really trying to get out, this guy is a Bull in a Glass shop. But I was respectful, I just wasn't playing any more games.

coreyb80

He sounds like a jerk honestly.

Chitownjedi

Oh he's an absolutely monster. This is the 5th network engineer he has "lost" in 18 Months....

Plantwiz

And that by itself tells the story. 5 people in the same role in less than 2 years...not real healthy.

He will eventually find someone who fits there, but at least you have better things on the horizon!

cruwl

I really hope you bring this up during an exit interview with HR, or start an HR case now.

Chitownjedi

cruwl wrote: »

I really hope you bring this up during an exit interview with HR, or start an HR case now.

Cruwl,

They really are pressing me, HR has an idea but everyone before me has only made statements in confidence to her. She really pressed me to give her an Exit Interview, and talk about what it was that was making me leave. But I was also told that he is untouchable, they've had lawsuits filed against him, training for him, and with the very high turnover its obvious.

The day i started, two end users walked past me and said 'Let's see how long you last" I thought they were foreshadowing it being a technically challenging and headache support wise... they meant before he wore me out. Its unfortunate too.. the CIO (his direct manager) are best friends... so no matter what gets kicked up she kind of supports him. He's been running the show 20 years now.... And since he doesn't let one in on learning the network... they wouldn't know how to move forward without him. Everyone all day has been running up to me saying "I UNDERSTAND!" Kind of depressing, actually.

Moon Child

It really can be very common behavior in the workforce, depends if your willing to put up with it or not and how personally you take it. In some industries, especially in the trades I hear this kind of behavior is very common with some bosses and it is just expected. For me it all would depend how much I was getting paid. I have heard in some trades bosses acting like this, but these guys were making 80K+ a year so I could see why they still stuck with their job. I know friends who have bosses who act like this, but they are union members and make great money so they don't care how their boss treats them just as long as they make their 80k+ a year. If I made a 80K a year I could forgive just about any behavior. I would rather have a boss that is screaming F-bombs all day long that paid me well then a boss who was a real nice guy and treated me well, but didn't pay much at all. When it comes down to it money is really all I would care about.

neo9006

Well Chit,

Glad you found another job sir, sounds like your on your way, and after reading this yea, I am glad you didnt walk out, I will be honest and say I did that years ago at my current job, I remeber the office manager calling me, I went in a week later, have I felt that has slowed my progression down, not really, has it hurt my pocket book, I would say yes. I have gotten some crappy raises, and I think within a week or 2 I should know what kind of a raise I will be getting, but I know I will write my ticket by the end of the year, either with a promotion or changing jobs, which I think the latter is going to happen. I do not think I would want to do an exit interview and hopefully they do not ask why I left after 18 years either. My ex boss reminds me of your boss dropping F bombs and not getting along with people, I guess I laugh now cause he goes and does what I do in the field outside of work and its the reason he never got the office manager job thank god.

bigdogz

Chitownjedi,

I was in a similar situation of "sailor talk" and I just dealt with it. It was really a corporate culture thing.

Just remember that if you go to HR about anything they will support management in most cases unless there is some sort of documentation to prove your situation. You did the best thing by leaving the company.

blargoe

You should still give a notice, not for the benefit of your boss, but as a professional courtesy to the company. Just keep it short and concise. "I have accepted a position at another company, and will be leaving XYZ Company effective [choose a date]. "

I might consider giving it with someone from HR present, or at least send them a copy at the same time, so he can't up and fire you and pretend that you didn't give notice or something.

petedude

Thoughts on chi's situation and similar:
1. Best to give notice. In the past it would not have been horribly difficult to walk, but nowadays that could follow you all too easily.
2. In many situations, HR has a focus on protecting the company's interests.
3. And yes, sadly, many HR groups get stuck in positions where they have to support poorly behaving management employees.
4. Exit interviews: common advice is to just say everything was fine. The exit interview is to see if you're going to create any potential issues for the firm, and to prepare to defend the firm in case it's necessary. Personally, I don't think you should say everything was fine. . . just relax and try not to say much of anything.