Experience or cert oppertunity, need advice!

Hello forum.

I am currently unemployed and can avail to a few services from my government. One is courses and another is internship (for a tiny increase in welfare).

I asked someone last night about a programming to learn and networking, and he told me C# would be good to learn, and if you knew Java its easy to pick up on C#.

I can take a 6 month Java course, or find an internship that directly does networking instead (between 6 and 9 months). If I took the Java course I would go in to learn everything, diving deep at home as well, and also studying for another cert.

I have a tiny amount of experience in IT working at a repair shop. If I learnt Java and C#, an entry level programming job would be very, very easy to find here, and its easier to express your knowledge in programming then it is to say you have a year or two experience in helpdesk or network administration.

If I look to a year in my future, I can see the programming benefiting me more in the long run, while the internship could (or not) give me a jump past the 1st line support and go in at a networking role, with a mentor and have experience.

Im very conflicted on this. I always wanted to get into programming but, it didn't happen. I have been studying enough about networking that I would be good at it once I had the chance to get hands-on experience.

I need help on this!

Kai.

(I cant edit the title, sorry

I woke up 5 minutes ago if thats any excuse).

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Comments

W Stewart

You sound like you want to do programming, you've got the opportunity to learn how to program and based on your description, it shouldn't be too difficult to find employment in programming once you finish your class. The answer seems pretty simple to me.

Asif Dasl

You are right there are more programming jobs in Ireland than networking jobs, and the pay is pretty similar for an experienced role. Experience is the key no matter what country you are in. I'm just wondering if you went to do the Java course is it 9 to 5? Are these programming jobs looking for a Computer Science degree?

I think there is a shortage of programmers here so maybe they are not necessarily looking for a degree? I would be surprised if they didn't. You need to find that out if you are going to spend 6 months learning Java and then pick up C#. Would it not be better to go to college and get what the jobs are looking for? Just asking..

For the networking internship, I think you already have the CCNA but just not the experience - the intership would help without needing a CS degree. What career do you want to do, getting experience is what will propel your career and you need to choose carefully which route would make you happier.

You need to find out who are the Cisco partners are in Dublin? and write them a letter and see if they will take you on an internship before deciding enrolling on the Java course. You want to get an internship with a Cisco partner not any networking job the government gives just for an extra bit of welfare - they just want you off the dole numbers to say you are training, not looking at your long term career goals.

Sorry to hear the other job didn't work out for you...

Kai123

The Java courses give you the "Oracle Certified Java Programmer". I might have missed out since they start next week, but they have online courses. Not sure how I feel about studying programming at home though.

At the time I was to take my CCNA exam was when I lost my last job. FAS have a CCNA course which actually might be what I need. It could act as a refresher and I can have the exams paid for.

I applied too late for an internship with the only requirement of gaining certification in CCNA and Voice, the rest of the internships are way out of date or look like repair shops.

At this point, I feel like I might as well try everything. I dont want to get 6 months down the road and regret not taking the other path. I can learn one or the other from home, and hopefully I might have a job at the end of it, otherwise I will have a CCNA, entry lvl Java skills and be put on a 9 month internship.

This is turning into a rant so I'll stop here. Thanks for answering Asif (helping me all these years!) and W Stewart. As long as im doing something I cant go wrong.

Asif Dasl

I understand your frustration. My only problem with many of the get-back-to-work schemes is the majority of the time you usually need to have a passion for a career. And these seem like a band-aid for a gaping wound of unemployment.

What is your passion? Programming or networking, they are very different paths. And I do realise that you want to get back working ASAP. Did you get CCENT already? You do realise that you can get your own internship that's not through the government by just asking for an unpaid position - you are already getting dole. That would give you valuable experience to put on a resume especially if they were a Cisco partner.

Asif Dasl

Just tried to PM you but couldn't...

Kai123

PM'ed you so hopefully you can reply.

The passion is networking. I find it fascinating and it can give you brilliant opportunities. I would enjoy programming and it would be a valuable skill. There are alot of nuances that ive picked up studying networking for so long that alot of the subtleties of programming are alien to me. When someone mentioned C# being valuable to a network admin, it gave me an excuse to look into it more.

I will start looking up Cisco partners and e-mailing/phoning them. I have e-mailed some companies about un-paided work but never got a reply, but I think thats not having the CCNA. There is a place local to me that has entry level NOC positions that I might try phoning. Its always advertised because the new employees move quickly up the company.

Asif Dasl

Then stick with networking then, C# isn't very useful for a network admin. It's useful for a programmer alright but if networking is your passion and it gives you a thrill to solve networking problems then spending as much time as you can on GNS3 while unemployed should be your goal.

There was a user who used to be here called Paul Boz who was unemployed and could barely pay for his electricity. But he spent his time labbing on his routers/GNS3 (can't remember which) and eventually got a job and eventually got CCNP, CCIP, CCDP, CCDA, CCNA, CCNA Security, NSTISSI 4011, GSEC, GCFW, GCIH, GCIA. And getting the CCNA while working on his CCNP turned his life around. I can't find the post but it was hugely inspirational.

edit - I found 2 posts about it - [Post 1] [Post 2]

phdillard

From what I've seen in job listings for my area, Java programmers get paid nicely, so if you're looking for the best pay, the programming route would be the way to go.

Asif Dasl

Yeah but it's not all about money is it. I couldn't stand being a programmer for 8 hours a day, day-in day-out just for the money. If fixing a programming routine gives you a thrill then by all means go with that. A Java Programmer could earn €70,000 in Dublin, less outside of Dublin or more contracting.

You can still earn big money in networking but experience is king and it's that catch-22 of not being able to get experience when jobs are looking for experience before they hire you which is the problem here - if Kai goes with networking or programming.

Kai123

I will pure the effort into networking then. Once Im on the career path I can look into programming as an interest and hobby.

Thanks for the input Asif, helpful as always.

Kai.

Asif Dasl

Anytime Kai

Moon Child

Kai123 wrote: »

Hello forum.

I am currently unemployed and can avail to a few services from my government. One is courses and another is internship (for a tiny increase in welfare).

I asked someone last night about a programming to learn and networking, and he told me C# would be good to learn, and if you knew Java its easy to pick up on C#.

I can take a 6 month Java course, or find an internship that directly does networking instead (between 6 and 9 months). If I took the Java course I would go in to learn everything, diving deep at home as well, and also studying for another cert.

I have a tiny amount of experience in IT working at a repair shop. If I learnt Java and C#, an entry level programming job would be very, very easy to find here, and its easier to express your knowledge in programming then it is to say you have a year or two experience in helpdesk or network administration.

If I look to a year in my future, I can see the programming benefiting me more in the long run, while the internship could (or not) give me a jump past the 1st line support and go in at a networking role, with a mentor and have experience.

Im very conflicted on this. I always wanted to get into programming but, it didn't happen. I have been studying enough about networking that I would be good at it once I had the chance to get hands-on experience.

I need help on this!

Kai.

(I cant edit the title, sorry I woke up 5 minutes ago if thats any excuse).

If it were me I would go with the internship, they are way more valuable to an employer than taking a programming class. Even though it is in networking and not in programming it still will help you out a lot in the long run in my opinion. No one is going to hire you for a programming job just because you took a programming class, I learned this the hard way. Although most of my experience in IT has been as a programmer, I only got those jobs because of an internship, having connections, and being able to show sample code from previous projects I have worked on in the interview. They just don't hire anybody for a programming job who has had a class here or there in it, they want to see proof and usually ask in the interview for sample programs you have written. A young 18 year old kid at a company I worked at got a programming job right out of high school because he brought an entire computer game he coded himself in C++ to the interview. The young brain kid earned his degree in Computer Science from Purdue while working at the company.

Kinet1c

Asif Dasl wrote: »

I understand your frustration. My only problem with many of the get-back-to-work schemes is the majority of the time you usually need to have a passion for a career.

I agree with this. I sat in on one of the FAS classes for 6 months and because I wanted to be there I got a hell of a lot out of it. Whereas others attendees were just clocking hours to get unemployment benefits. Do what you love.

ChooseLife

Moon Child wrote: »

If it were me I would go with the internship, they are way more valuable to an employer than taking a programming class.

+1 on that.

Another thing to add, if you can do both, do both. If you have to choose one or the other, consider that you can always take free online courses and read books to learn, whereas internships do not have such option.