I am in the wrong business

Well that is a little bit of a rant and I am not sure what else. I know more than ever I will be switching gears and for those that have given me advice thank you, but I feel like just straight up throwing up, for such a wonderful year from what I heard, that was a joke and the raise proved it, now if you got an extra 116 added a month to your salary before taxes are taken out, how the heck are you suppose to survive, as I have told my wife the rich keep getting richer and abuse the help in the process, personally I can't wait to get the hell out of this job. Sorry but I am disappointed and I will have 4 months to pick up some web development programs such as html, python, php, jquery, javascript, and java, I would hope that would be enough to get me a job paying more than 45k a year. Sorry if I offended someone, I am just tired and feel sick to my stomach, 50 dollars more a month is not helping me survive, feel like saying take this raise and shove it.

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dave330i

Usually the best way to increase your salary is by jumping ship. Raises won't cut it.

neo9006

Your right, I am upset and feel like crying and I know I shouldn't be this upset about things, but I can't afford to keep myself down, I am hoping by learning that much stuff that I can get somewhere else with better pay.

Iristheangel

Agreed with Dave.

Sometimes you're lucky enough to find a job that values you enough and earns your loyalty through their treatment of you, your salary, your benefits, etc. If you don't feel like you're getting that now, find a better job and jump ship. If you're not able to find a better job with what you have now, better yourself and do what you need to make yourself more marketable and attractive to employers (certifications, finish your degree, etc) and then jump ship. I was making $12/hour at my first IT job which BARELY paid my regular bills and had to work a graveyard shift as a security guard to supplement my income so I could pay for certifications. After I got enough under my belt, I jumped ship and made a HUGE increase. I stayed at that job for about 2 years while I polished off my degree and some more huge certifications and then jumped ship again for an over 100% raise. If I stay at my last job, I would have been getting a 4% max raise every year at annual review time or a 10% max raise if I transferred departments.

neo9006

I am working on that Iris, I will have a BAAS degree in Web Design and Media come December, and by that time will be looking somewhere else, I understand the government jobs are not always they are cracked up to be, but I felt like I got punched in the head today, I made better last year than this year, I am loyal, been here 18 years, but as I have read and I think you even said after a few years you need to switch it up, I plan to jump ship as soon as I can, I am grinding it here like I did at my previous second job till I leave. I got 4 months in the hole and then I am hoping after that maybe crab some developers certifications and some other certs and get the heck out.

Iristheangel

18 years? Wow. One of the problems with being at a job too long while too early in your career is that you often pigeon-hole yourself in terms of the technology and tasks that you perform. It's good that you are educating yourself and bettering yourself. I have a certain approach to jobs. I call it the "two year rule." Until I'm at the place in my career where I'm either at the job title and salary in which I want to retire at or I'm in a position in management (if I even want to go that route in the future), I will stay at a company for 2 years since that's an ample amount of time to put on a resume and I feel that I will learn all I can learn from a job in that amount of time and then I will jump ship. It keeps me learning, keeps my resume diverse, and it keeps my salary raising.

gorebrush

18 years? Wow! That is quite some loyalty.

I last until the pay rises stop/boredom sets in and I'm off. Have doubled my salary over the past 10 years.

kohr-ah

As the others have said Jump ship.

I am in the same boat as you. My job went from great, to they are literally making me go backwards and I HHHHHHAAAAAAATTTTTTEEEEEE it. It makes my stomach feel sick every morning I wake up (like you said) and I just had to stop caring to make it go forwards.

Since then I been working harder on my CCNP and applying to jobs around the area and trying to be closer to home if possible. Just remember, it is just business and do what is best for you. Get peppermint tea or ginger pills to deal with nausea and do what is best for you even if it takes 6 months.

neo9006

Well yea, 18 long years this month, but the pay is not cutting out, no matter what, I understand education will get you further, I am with that, but tired of being the low end of the todem pole, I know for a fact our office manager makes 144k and my boss close to 80k himself, I can look it up, does it make me angry, no I understand they have a master in civil engineering. I got that. But I think like I use to say, if you do not take care of your people, it will come back to bite you in the butt. That is what is going to happen, if something happens to the other guy I work with, the only person that could really do the job is me and a student worker who I do not think will be here much longer since he is looking at another job. I know what I can do, its funny I started as a drafter here(AutoCAD), and that part of my job phased out years ago (5) but now suddenly they need someone to know it for some project come Nov/Dec, which I will do, but come revision time I might not be here to do it and they will have to figure things out. I said in another post, hard work nowadays really doesn't pay off to me, it might at other jobs, but not mine, I just bite my tongue for now, all I am waiting is to get that pretty paper in my hand and then send resumes left and right and see who bites.

paul78

I applaud you for being so loyal and being able to have longevity at the same employer. At 18 years, that's great. But if you have been at the same job or similar roles at the same organization, then at some point, the raises simply become cost of living if a raise even is offered. It sounds like you work for the government so I am less familiar but in private sector, I am not surprised that the raises are small after many years especially if the job is the same. At some point, the job is simply at a level where the incumbent has reached the top edge of the pay scale. For example, I am in a role where my compensation is on the top edge of my employer's pay scale so consequently my expectation is that I expect no raise or minimal raise. I have adjusted my expectation that anything more than a half percentage raise is a pretty big nod by my employer.

sratakhin

You only get paid as much as your employer values you. If you are not happy with the salary you make, become a better employee, get a degree, certifications, find another job or whatever. If you just sit and complain about "not taking care of their people" or "not being able to pay bills", it's not going to get you anywhere.

Nutsacjac

sratakhin wrote: »

You only get paid as much as your employer values you. If you are not happy with the salary you make, become a better employee, get a degree, certifications, find another job or whatever. If you just sit and complain about "not taking care of their people" or "not being able to pay bills", it's not going to get you anywhere.

Quality post.

NetworkVeteran

That is what is going to happen, if something happens to the other guy I work with, the only person that could really do the job is me and a student worker

Whatever task it is, I'm certain more than you and two others can do it. I've been seeing irreplaceable people replaced my whole career. It may have cost them more than keeping that person, but the sky didn't fall.

You only get paid as much as your employer values you. If you are not happy with the salary you make, become a better employee, get a degree, certifications, find another job or whatever. If you just sit and complain about "not taking care of their people" or "not being able to pay bills", it's not going to get you anywhere.

+10.

gorebrush

sratakhin wrote: »

You only get paid as much as your employer values you. If you are not happy with the salary you make, become a better employee, get a degree, certifications, find another job or whatever. If you just sit and complain about "not taking care of their people" or "not being able to pay bills", it's not going to get you anywhere.

Can't agree with this more!!!

JoJoCal19

Iristheangel wrote: »

18 years? Wow. One of the problems with being at a job too long while too early in your career is that you often pigeon-hole yourself in terms of the technology and tasks that you perform.

Yea I can't even imagine how pigeon-holed you would be after 18 years. I've been in my position for 5 years and have seen the devastating effects it has had on my career mobility and earning potential. I'm knocking out CISSP in Sep, ITIL F in a week or two, then CISM in december. After my paid 3 month leave starting in January, I'm out!

LarryDaMan

Iristheangel wrote: »

18 years? Wow. One of the problems with being at a job too long while too early in your career is that you often pigeon-hole yourself in terms of the technology and tasks that you perform. It's good that you are educating yourself and bettering yourself. I have a certain approach to jobs. I call it the "two year rule." Until I'm at the place in my career where I'm either at the job title and salary in which I want to retire at or I'm in a position in management (if I even want to go that route in the future), I will stay at a company for 2 years since that's an ample amount of time to put on a resume and I feel that I will learn all I can learn from a job in that amount of time and then I will jump ship. It keeps me learning, keeps my resume diverse, and it keeps my salary raising.

Big +1, especially in the DC area.

In most cases, a raise might get you 2%-5% percent, but switching to a position which is more senior or one with more responsibility can put you in a different tax bracket altogether. From position to position, it should only go up. The experience/diversity/learning aspect are all pluses as well.

Kreken

I probably will get negative points for this but here it is anyway. The way you write and structure your sentences makes me cringe. If you talk the way you write, you will not get far as a person who can properly articulate himself. You can learn all the IT skills in the world however if you can't sell yourself, they will not do you any good in finding a better paying job. I bet this is a part of the problem why you received such a low raise. I would highly suggest starting with something basic, like English 101 before picking up some web development skills.

neo9006

I was merely ranting sratakhin, that is all, and Network, yea there are people that could do but I can bet you that none of the engineers will be doing it here, rarely do they go to the field to do what we do, on occasion maybe, but usually 99% they do not. I was just venting like I said earlier, and as for bettering myself I am doing that, working for the government has its benefits to a degree, unless your at the top, not really, I am not at the top and I know I will never be there working here unless I had my P.E. then it would be a different story. Some of you as bad as I hate to say are just like I guess sticking me in my place more, like I said I just was venting about it was all. I work hard, and try to be the loyal employee and do things more than what I am suppose when needed. Sorry I even posted this.

LarryDaMan

Kreken wrote: »

I probably will get negative points for this but here it is anyway. The way you write and structure your sentences makes me cringe. If you talk the way you write, you will not get far as a person who can properly articulate himself. You can learn all the IT skills in the world however if you can't sell yourself, they will not do you any good in finding a better paying job. I bet this is a part of the problem why you received such a low raise. I would highly suggest starting with something basic, like English 101 before picking up some web development skills.

A bit harsh since we don't know if English is even his native language. Besides, have you known most IT folk (especially web developers) to be an exceptionally articulate bunch?

NetworkVeteran

LarryDaMan wrote: »

Besides, have you known most IT folk (especially web developers) to be an exceptionally articulate bunch?

Maybe that strength in IT is unique to networking. The inventor of STP and IS-IS is a poetess.

Kreken

LarryDaMan wrote: »

A bit harsh since we don't know if English is even his native language. Besides, have you known most IT folk (especially web developers) to be an exceptionally articulate bunch?

To tell you honestly, I have no idea what he does for living. He talks about his boss having a degree in civil engineering and as he started as a drafter using AutoCAD. He wants to take web development classes because he thinks it will take him over $45k mark. What I do know is that I threw away quite few resumes written the same way.

I highly doubt English is not his first language. Even if it is, he worked for the gov't for 18 years. To be employed by the gov't, you need to be a US citizen. If you immigrate to the US, you need at least 5 years of residency to apply for the citizenship. This makes total of 23 years to learn how to properly express yourself in English.

PS. English is my third language.

philz1982

neo9006 wrote: »

Well that is a little bit of a rant and I am not sure what else. I know more than ever I will be switching gears and for those that have given me advice thank you, but I feel like just straight up throwing up, for such a wonderful year from what I heard, that was a joke and the raise proved it, now if you got an extra 116 added a month to your salary before taxes are taken out, how the heck are you suppose to survive, as I have told my wife the rich keep getting richer and abuse the help in the process, personally I can't wait to get the hell out of this job. Sorry but I am disappointed and I will have 4 months to pick up some web development programs such as html, python, php, jquery, javascript, and java, I would hope that would be enough to get me a job paying more than 45k a year. Sorry if I offended someone, I am just tired and feel sick to my stomach, 50 dollars more a month is not helping me survive, feel like saying take this raise and shove it.

First off what I am about to say I mean in a caring way but the truth is hard to hear sometimes so read through and it will help.

What do you want to make? I haven't heard that yet. What would make you happy? 100k? 1Million/yr? Your attitude is terrible. I don't mean that in a rude way just an honest way. Your statement "as I have told my wife the rich keep getting richer and abuse the help in the process" exposes that. If you continue to believe that crap you will not get what you want.

Sit down write out what you want to earn. In clear numbers I will earn x by y date.

Next determine what you have to do to earn that. Do you need to leave the company, do you need to get more education, do you need to start your own company, write a book, what do you need to do? Not what can you do, don't limit yourself just write down what you need to do.

If you don't know that's fine if you firmly set a goal and focus on it the ideas will come to you. I know it sounds crazy but I set a goal to make 500k/yr by the time I am 40. Just the other day I had a guy come to me about one of my Blogs I wrote and wanted to know if he could use it at his community college thus I have started to turn my article series into a training program I can sell to schools. Keep a notebook the ideas will come.

Change your attitude. Go get the book Success principles it changed my life and will change yours. You either stuck at your company because you are afraid to leave, have low self confidence, or you have no drive. Figure out what it is and change.

Best of luck, I'll give you as much advice as I can. I will tell you following these principles has increased my income by 10-15% each year.

-Phil

NetworkVeteran

I know it sounds crazy but I set a goal to make 500k/yr by the time I am 40.

Smart goals are specific, measurable, achievable, realistic, and time-based.

"Realistic goals are potentially challenging but not so challenging that the chance of success is small." That would put you in the top 0.5% of tax payers. I'd question whether you're setting realistic goals. But, so long as you're not getting lured into scams or risky investments, I suspect more damage is done by dreaming too small than too big. Carry on!

kohr-ah

A coworker once emailed to me this and it drives me every day:
Don't sell yourself short, decide what you are worth and go and get it.

Go and get it! No one is going to hand you anything, if you want it, you are going to have to go and get it.

Fear, do not let this get in the way of making smart choices. Make a good solid decision, and move forward.

Don't look back...

Use the 30:30:30:10 Rule and adjust to your level

Decide if you are running from your current position, or running toward a new opportunity. Think about this prior to any move..

Don't accept a counter offer from your current employer

Don't be afraid to fail

Don't ever be "too good" to do anything, see the bigger picture in all the small things

New jobs dont go "this isn't what I thought" instead think "what can I make this?"

santaowns

Ok I will chime in here. You work for the government. You have job security, that's what you lose when you go to a private sector job. You have absolutly no room at all to complain about pay because when you applied for your job they gave you the minimums and maximums that this job could make. Example gs4-gs7. You can't earn gs11 money like your boss and his boss, and if you could and your highest quality was AutoCAD I'd be pissed as a taxpayer. You want more pay go private sector or make the qualifications to become a higher level gs government worker only options you have really.

gadav478

kohr-ah wrote: »

A coworker once emailed to me this and it drives me every day:
Don't sell yourself short, decide what you are worth and go and get it.

Go and get it! No one is going to hand you anything, if you want it, you are going to have to go and get it.

Fear, do not let this get in the way of making smart choices. Make a good solid decision, and move forward.

Don't look back...

Use the 30:30:30:10 Rule and adjust to your level

Decide if you are running from your current position, or running toward a new opportunity. Think about this prior to any move..

Don't accept a counter offer from your current employer

Don't be afraid to fail

Don't ever be "too good" to do anything, see the bigger picture in all the small things

New jobs dont go "this isn't what I thought" instead think "what can I make this?"

Emailed this to myself. Good one.

neo9006

I will chime in once again,

Some of you have no mercy which is fine with me. I admit that my attitude sucks about my job, you will not hear me argue with that. I was merely having a bad day with things that is all, one thing after another. I had said I was just venting was all. As another poster said yes I have job security, and Phil thank you. I will look into that book tomorrow and see how things change. Managers are free to trash resumes if they want, I think they have to remember you can't get the work done without the worker. I feel I communicate enough at work with co-workers. I am here not to judge anyone in here and that is why we are a free country, we are free to say what we can say, so more power to you. If I was not improving myself it would be different, but I am getting my degree in December. I will just work harder to get where I need to get is all.

santaowns

Neo, my post was harsh, but it was meant to be that way. I worked for the govt a few times, so I know all about the step system you are in for gs levels. If you want to make the big bucks for them you have to have a degree and find room where someone is retiring. That being said I know of people who have not gotten a raise. I for instance make about $45 k and my coworkers make 10k more than that, I could complain but my pay was based upon my experience and they are all older and have tons of experience. I work circles around them and that gives me my job security. If I were you regardless of how much I hated my job I would stick out the next 12 years and double dip my butt off.

Nemowolf

neo,

I wanted to throw in a bit of my own two cents here to offer a different opinion.

The position i hear from my coworkers is often in the same vein concerning increases in salary. Consider this from your employer's stand point as your boss may have no control over this, why should they offer you more money? Case in point, I recently was speaking with one who told me two weeks ago the he was going to ask his boss for a raise. I advised him that if he couldnt present information to sell his raise, he would get a no. He walked into that office and got a resounding no. I asked him what he brought forward as evidence of his improvements, achievements, and the like to warrant the raise, nothing. I asked if they did or scheduled time to discuss what he can do to earn that raise in 3 or 6 months time, nothing.

To show this to you in a seperate angle, if you were shopping for two cars. Both identical in features and specs, why would you choose one above the other? If one is offered at x value less than other, would that make the case for the choice? Why should your employer spend more money on you than you are currently "worth" to them?

Point being, sell yourself and make a point to track and document what you are bringing to the table that sets you now from you 18 years ago.

Now, this is more personal, but have you considered how your negativity comes accross to those you work with? Check this repost of the article i read concerning changing your mentality to stop being negative. You may be giving off negativity without realizing it and that may be causing you to be seen by your boss and employer as someone not really worthy of being promoted or many other things. I don't know you besides your two posts here so i cant judge you beyond your rants.

(* I must be the other odd bird, English Major before switching to IT. Your grammar leaves much to be desired in your writing and it reflects poorly on your ability to properly articulate your thoughts conherently. It is rather difficult reading your posts with the jumble of commas and run on sentences that lack structure to emphasis where one thought ends and another start. I want to also note that English is my second language and I learned much of my vernacular from the television.*)

gorebrush

I wasn't out to judge, but I will say that I worked for local government and it was by far and away the worst organisation I have ever worked for. I started work there in 2004 as an Intranet Co-ordinator. I covered maternity leave for 9 months and I started on £22K. I was offered a temporary job for 1 month after this for £16K but the only permanent job I could get was working for an Installation/Support team (2nd line) for £12K. So within 2 months I'd gone from £22K to £12K. I tried to move up to other jobs within - even after I'd scored 2 MCP exams, and was turned down for a Network Engineer job - and the job was given to someone else, because, and I found out later - they promoted him because they were afraid him and our line manager (we were on the same team) were going to have a fight.

So, never mind the fact that I happened to be doing a Networking MCP at the time (70-291) and apparently gave a much better interview - because I wasn't falling out with people I had to stay where I was.

I was fortunate and had another term at the first job as she needed maternity cover again, but once I was there a second time, I made good my escape and ended up working for a private company and I've never looked back.

I don't think I ever worked with a bigger collection of lazy and unmotivated people in my whole career. I don't know what working for government is like in the USA, but over here, public bodies just aren't that motivated because they don't have profit margins to worry about. Yes, they generally are secure jobs for life, but boring, not much progression, and the only chance of a promotion is through others leaving and filling the space. And even then you are competing with around 4-5-6 people for any position and there are stupid criteria (like my example above) that prevents anyone who actually aspires to have a career to move forward.

I truly believe however that you need to think about finding another job - clearly nobody really gets rewarded for loyalty.

neo9006

At this point I think everyone has said what they wanted to say. I applaud everyone's comments. As Nemo as said I knew I came off as negative yesterday but I was venting. Do I do this at work? No, I am usually the person sitting at my desk or working in the field doing my work. Privately one person knows how I feel at work. This person I work with daily and happens not to be my boss. Other than that, I bid my time like anyone else. I am sorry my English sucks since you are like let me see the 3rd person that has told me. What I want to say sometimes does not come off the way I am saying it in my head. By the way Santa, we do not go by gs ratings, I am a government employee for a university here in Texas.

Phil, if you read this what was the name of the book and the author?

I would like to thank everyone again rather it was harsh or good for your input. I will have to rework some things in my life and work harder to get there.