Ok, must make life changing decision by Monday!!!

5502george

I posted a while back about a Masters degree scholarship from the department of defense I might be offered but I must quit my current job in order to attend

.....Well I was offered it and must decide by Monday. Please give me any advice, suggestions, comments to help me make a more concrete decision in this as I am torn.


Pros:

Brick and Mortar school (University of New Mexico)

I will get a masters in IA in 1.5 years/3 semesters

I will have no distractions while attending school: aside from 2 children and a wife lol

I will get 2k a month stipend to attend college plus all fees/tuition paid for/insurance

I will network with individuals that hold very high security positions


Cons:

I must quit my GS-11 INFOSEC (DOD) job that makes ~$70k/yr but we could manage

I am not guaranteed a job after graduation, although they have not had any student not get hired upon graduation

I am not sure it will really give me any edge in INFOSEC

I think most students after graduation are aspiring to be in a position that I am already in (GS-11), I do not actually know if I will get a pay raise or step increase from where I am now working




.....There is something in me that tells me school is a great idea....especially free! But I do not know if this is the route that would have the best ROI. I am really torn on this any suggestions would help

Also, I would not get a masters degree working. If I was going to chase anything while I was working it would be the CISSP.

networker050184

5502george wrote: »

I think most students after graduation are aspiring to be in a position that I am already in (GS-11), I do not actually know if I will get a pay raise or step increase from where I am now working

This is what I'm thinking. It sounds like a program to get people in where you already are to me. Perhaps continuing to work and pursue a Masters and CISSP might be the best route for you.

ptilsen

My opinion and advice hasn't really changed since the last thread. Objectively, I can't say that quitting your job to do this can be expected to have the best long-term outcome. It could be, but I don't see enough evidence to say it's more likely. But, to me, it doesn't seem like it will really be much worse, if at all, and it seems like what you want to do. It's certainly what I'd want to do. Something about it feels right And although I'll be the first to say "don't trust your feelings," something about it makes sense to me. I think it comes down to happiness. I think you'll be happier getting to focus on school for a while, then focus on work in a year and a half. I know I'd be.

ptilsen

Also, wouldn't this help get you into a higher-level GS position? Can't recall if that's really your goal, but it seems like it's not that risky a move, in any event.

I just can't move past free school plus stipend. It's such a sweet deal, and would be a no-brainer if you weren't already gainfully employed and well into your career. I couldn't live on $24K a year without some changes and dipping into investments, but I know I'd take it if given the opportunity.

tjh87

I would say stay put. You have the job now, which is a guaranteed, concrete thing. The degree, and the potential after, is not guaranteed. While it may open up doors down the road, it is still a gamble for you immediate future. From my experience working around GS workers in the past, its normally less about credentials and more about who you know anyway. That is if you are looking at remaining a government employee. I know you mentioned in your post that you wouldn't go for you Master's while still being employed. Without knowing your exact reasons for this, I would suggest considering it. After I finish my Bachelor's, I will seriously be considering moving on to my Master's while still working. I wouldn't ever considering quitting my job to pursue further education, however. Not while experience is still king in the IT field anyway.

5502george

ptilsen wrote: »

Also, wouldn't this help get you into a higher-level GS position? Can't recall if that's really your goal, but it seems like it's not that risky a move, in any event.

I just can't move past free school plus stipend. It's such a sweet deal, and would be a no-brainer if you weren't already gainfully employed and well into your career. I couldn't live on $24K a year without some changes and dipping into investments, but I know I'd take it if given the opportunity.

Well in the GS levels a masters really is not required. As long as I have one good year at the GS11 level I am eligible to apply for GS12 positions. I am not really sure I want to stay DOD, I actually throw around the idea of teaching security one day. That is what makes this so hard, one one hand I see this as a free opportunity to attain my masters, on the other I can see this as a stepping stone....to right where I am lol.

5502george

tjh87 wrote: »

I would say stay put. You have the job now, which is a guaranteed, concrete thing. The degree, and the potential after, is not guaranteed. While it may open up doors down the road, it is still a gamble for you immediate future. From my experience working around GS workers in the past, its normally less about credentials and more about who you know anyway. That is if you are looking at remaining a government employee. I know you mentioned in your post that you wouldn't go for you Master's while still being employed. Without knowing your exact reasons for this, I would suggest considering it. After I finish my Bachelor's, I will seriously be considering moving on to my Master's while still working. I wouldn't ever considering quitting my job to pursue further education, however. Not while experience is still king in the IT field anyway.

You have a very valid point. Sacrificing my career for education might be a short term mistake. From what I can gather a masters in IA is NOT a mandatory requirement as of yet....thats not to say it will not be in the very near future

LarryDaMan

I agree with the above. Stay put. Get the CISSP and take the next 10 years to get your Master's if you want to go slow. A graduate degree is not a deal breaker or a king maker at your current career level.

It sounds like you really want to quit work and go to school, but I would not.

ipchain

While I can clearly see how appealing the scholarship option might seem to you, the decision should be fairly simple. If you were single, I'd recommend going for it; however, family comes first. Having said that, supporting a family of 2 kids and a wife on a 24k/year income will be extremely challenging, to say the least.

If you honestly believe that a masters degree will have an impact in your career, and more importantly, in your growth as an IT professional, then I would encourage you to look at other programs so that you can enroll in school and maintain your current salary / lifestyle. Successfully completing a masters degree and the CISSP certification over the next 1.5 / 2 years is doable; however, it all depends on you. How badly do you want it? Judging from your post, you seem to have the drive so it's just a matter of choosing what to sacrifice, sleep or your family's well-being.

In any event, I wish you the best of luck. Regardless of your decision, stick to it to the end and do not give up!

Akaricloud

Personally if the decision were mine it would come down to the current position I was in. Are you feeling stale where you're at and needing something more to push you further, or do you still have room to learn/advance/grow where you're at?

There will always be more opportunities to further your education but sacrificing a opportunity to further your experience could easily be a mistake.

5502george

ipchain wrote: »

While I can clearly see how appealing the scholarship option might seem to you, the decision should be fairly simple. If you were single, I'd recommend going for it; however, family comes first. Having said that, supporting a family of 2 kids and a wife on a 24k/year income will be extremely challenging, to say the least.

If you honestly believe that a masters degree will have an impact in your career, and more importantly, in your growth as an IT professional, then I would encourage you to look at other programs so that you can enroll in school and maintain your current salary / lifestyle. Successfully completing a masters degree and the CISSP certification over the next 1.5 / 2 years is doable; however, it all depends on you. How badly do you want it? Judging from your post, you seem to have the drive so it's just a matter of choosing what to sacrifice, sleep or your family's well-being.

In any event, I wish you the best of luck. Regardless of your decision, stick to it to the end and do not give up!

The masters will not give me upward mobility in my current situation but that would not be a problem because I would not be in this position if I took it. So what I have to look at is would the degree give me some sort of edge in the infosec career field. To that question I do not know the answer 100%

5502george

Akaricloud wrote: »

Personally if the decision were mine it would come down to the current position I was in. Are you feeling stale where you're at and needing something more to push you further, or do you still have room to learn/advance/grow where you're at?

There will always be more opportunities to further your education but sacrificing a opportunity to further your experience could easily be a mistake.

Well the current position I am in is self paced. In that I mean I do the auditing and vulnerability testing at my own convince. So when I get bored with my job it is usually because I am not doing my job lol. The job is challenging and the career field I am very interested in, but my job does not require a lot from me.

ipchain

5502george wrote: »

The masters will not give me upward mobility in my current situation but that would not be a problem because I would not be in this position if I took it. So what I have to look at is would the degree give me some sort of edge in the infosec career field. To that question I do not know the answer 100%

I can only speak from my personal experience, but the MS degree has done nothing for me. The infosec field is about what you know, not necessarily a piece of paper. Just my 2 cents.

ptilsen

ipchain wrote: »

I can only speak from my personal experience, but the MS degree has done nothing for me. The infosec field is about what you know, not necessarily a piece of paper. Just my 2 cents.

FWIW, "Certifications
OSCE, OSCP, CISSP, GPEN, GCIH, GCIA, GCFW, GSEC, OWSP, CCNA, MCSE 2003" might have something to do with that, both from the knowledge studying for all that got you and from the credentials themselves. After all that, it's hard to say an MS in cybersecurity is enhancing anything for you.

ipchain

ptilsen wrote: »

FWIW, "Certifications
OSCE, OSCP, CISSP, GPEN, GCIH, GCIA, GCFW, GSEC, OWSP, CCNA, MCSE 2003" might have something to do with that, both from the knowledge studying for all that got you and from the credentials themselves. After all that, it's hard to say an MS in cybersecurity is enhancing anything for you.

Quite frankly, credentials are irrelevant, at least in my opinion. It is what you know that should define you, as I know 20 year olds that can reverse better than most people with PhD's that I have come across. Would I hire them over people with MS degrees and no clue? You bet. It's sad that today's hiring decisions are being made solely on your credentials, as opposed to what you truly know.

ptilsen

ipchain wrote: »

Quite frankly, credentials are irrelevant, at least in my opinion. It is what you know that should define you

I agree with this 100% in the context of being able to do a job. Credentials might correlate well with ability in many or most cases, but ability is the only thing that is important in and of itself for actually getting work done. However, when you're sifting through 30 resumes and need to narrow it down to 10, are you telling me you're going to pick a 20-year with no education or certifications just because of claiming skill? I think not. When comes down to assessing a candidate in an interview, personality, knowledge, and skill are what gets you the job. Before that? Credentials help get you considered.

krjay

I'd keep the job. If you are interested in a masters I'd do it on your own dime at a more traditional pace. I think the only way I'd be comfortable making this move is if I had an extremely comfortable financial situation. At a minimum I'd want to be able to survive 2.5-3 years without working. I'm usually extremely cautious about moves like these, hence the extreme cushion I would want.

Edit: Just noticed your last line about not doing a masters while working. I have no idea about CISSP vs Masters but I wouldn't quit working for any degree/cert.

ipchain

ptilsen wrote: »

When comes down to assessing a candidate in an interview, personality, knowledge, and skill are what gets you the job.

Truer words have never been spoken. Credentials can come in many forms, not necessarily in the form of certifications or degrees. Have you contributed to any open-source projects? Have you released any exploits or developed any tools? Can you link me to your GitHub repo so I can examine some of your work? In other words, look beyond keywords such as CISSP, etc.

It is not my intention to hijack this thread, I just wanted to provide a different respective to the OP.

5502george

ipchain wrote: »

Truer words have never been spoken. Credentials can come in many forms, not necessarily in the form of certifications or degrees. Have you contributed to any open-source projects? Have you released any exploits or developed any tools? Can you link me to your GitHub repo so I can examine some of your work? In other words, look beyond keywords such as CISSP, etc.

It is not my intention to hijack this thread, I just wanted to provide a different respective to the OP.

By no means do I feel that you have hijacked this thread. In fact the discussions are very interesting, your opinion on contributions towards open source is very insightful. Although I do agree there is a certain criteria that must be attained to pass the initial scrrening process of a position, you make valid points on a candidate that has simply fulfilled requirements and a candidate that has contributed to the world...

ptilsen

Of course, in the same vein, consider the value the education itself will bring. I would absolutely, 100% not do this even for twice the stipend if I weren't 100% sold on the school and the program. If pursuing this degree is going to bring you some knowledge that you might not or likely wouldn't be able to get in your own free time outside of work, that's huge, absolutely huge, and should factor into the equation.

Sadly, I feel most people go to college (at any level) primarily for the credential, or don't do their homework and think that the education is something it isn't. Do your homework and be damn sure you're getting more than a piece of paper and $36,000 for a year and a half of your life.

JoJoCal19

I'd definitely keep the job. At that salary, quitting to get your masters doesn't really have any advantage I can see. I think if you just spent the time and money on getting some high end security certs, you would put yourself in a much better situation for job prospects. I agree with ipchain that in security, what you know is most important. All of the security jobs I am finding that I want to post to, only look for a bachelors, with a few saying a masters would be nice but not required. But you can look at what they are asking for from a skill standpoint and tell that is what matters most.

jvrlopez

I would stay where you are if the schooling wont give you any further advancement right now. I wouldn't risk a sure thing (your job) vs. an opportunity.

At 70k a year, I'm sure you can afford to take a few classes here and there for your masters. It's only around 30-36 hours IIRC so you could knock it out on the side in no time.

YFZblu

You don't need a Master's in IA. You already have a degree, right? Besides, you have what really matters: Experience in infosec.

You have created threads outlining concerns you have regarding your inability to code and lack of networking knowledge. Why not spend time shoring those aspects of your skillset instead? In six months to a year you can get alot done and you won't have to put your career on hold.

stryder144

The way I see it is, if you intended to stay DoD, getting the degree (or more precisely, putting the scholarship on your DoD resume) would be very helpful. In your previous thread, I believe you said that between the stipend and what your wife would bring in, you could make it. That would make the decision a little easier, but only if you intended to stay DoD. The degree might help get you into the GS-13/15 range, but that would still likely be quite some time off.

If you don't really care to stay DoD, or DoD contractor, then the degree might not have much value to you. As such, the sacrifices you would make near term (loss of income and TIS) would not make up for the potential, long term upside. Potential, unfortunately, doesn't always pan out. When you add in the fact that you will, effectively, disappear for three terms, well, your wife and kids may not appreciate that very much. As one who had to spend roughly three years on deployments and temp duty, I have found it hard to regain the momentum and "territory" that I lost. You can't make up for lost time with family. Believe me, nothing hurts more than to have a conversation with family that starts out "remember when we went to...oh, never mind, you were deployed". Definitely something to consider deeply before deciding.

Reef-Tip

I don't understand why you can't do both. Do the Masters but just part time, distance/online.
This is what I'm doing now working full time and studying for a masters with Charles Sturt University .
I did just read that it was a scholarship so that does change things but does it have to be done fulltime.

5502george

Thanks a ton Tech community, I feel it would be in my best interest to continue to work and pursue the masters/CISSP in my free time. I feel that the lost experience will be the game changer in security. Again thank you very much for all of your responses as they have been very effective in helping me make the best decision for my family. Thx!