how far can you get without a degree?

geekboss

Hi all, just curious on how necessary a degree is in the IT industry. I only have 3 years at a vocational school for Networking and security. I just started a desktop support job about four months ago making 30k a year.

Is it possible to move into a better position at a different company within a couple of years? What Certs should I obtain to be a network admin and what kind of salary should I expect? Did I make a mistake not going to college?

TBickle

Start with a CCENT, then go for your CCNA, and CCNP. I'd suggest you go CCNA R&S first, and then branch off to whatever area you want to specialize in.

gbdavidx

my goal is ccna then get a degree in cyber security, then get ccna security from cisco and hopefully land an infosec position

Polynomial

geekboss wrote: »

Did I make a mistake not going to college?

Disclaimer: I both work in higher ed and am pursuing higher ed pretty aggressively.

You didn't make a mistake, but its going to be incredibly more difficult with the changing landscape of degrees mattering more to HR. No one without a degree will probably recommend the same path.

Iristheangel

Technically speaking, you can go as far as anyone without a college degree but it's going to take longer and be a lot harder.

You still can have a successful career but there will always be some companies and HR departments that your resume won't be accepted at. If you have doubts about not getting your degree, there are options out there that shouldn't take 4+ years and affordable.

Polynomial

Iristheangel wrote: »

If you have doubts about not getting your degree, there are options out there that shouldn't take 4+ years and affordable.

Yeah, I'm warming up quite a bit to the WGU idea for technical people a lot older than me who didn't go to college.

shodown

It all depends.

I know people in this industry who make over 500K with no degree, and I also know people with master degree's who make 80K. I will say this the majority of degree holders seem to do much better than those without. However those who have a PLAN in place with or without a degree do better than all.

geekboss

I'm only 19. Maybe I should just quit my job and go get myself into tons of debt instead of buying a car. Apparently certs are worthless without a degree. If I would've paid my technical school the money for college credit then I would have my AS in network engineering right now.

Iristheangel

I don't think anyone here says you can't succeed without a college education. The odds are that it's just going to be more difficult to get to the same places without that little piece of paper.

There are also alternatives to getting into school debt just to get a degree. For example, some states have tuition free schools out there:
Oregon Pay It Forward model of free college tuition
Tuition free schools

They tend to be harder to get into but worth giving a shot.

If you don't want to have to juggle the time for showing up for a class on a set schedule, there are some low cost online fully accredited alternatives like WGU in which tuition is less than $6000/year for unlimited credits and that includes the costs of materials and certification fees so no paying a few grand for book fees over the year. Get a scholarship and/or job that offers tuition reimbursement on top of that and you're looking at paying little to nothing for a school like that.

There are other alternatives as well like the military which will give you on-the-job training and pay for your college later.

The reality is that you don't have to quit working or get yourself into tons of debt if your goal is only to get a technology degree. There are options if you're willing to seek them out. Also, you can the choose to skip the degree and go for certs but as you will discover from other forum members, a lot of those people tend to regret that decision and find themselves working on getting their degrees later in life.

shodown

Polynomial wrote: »

Disclaimer: I both work in higher ed and am pursuing higher ed pretty aggressively.

You didn't make a mistake, but its going to be incredibly more difficult with the changing landscape of degrees mattering more to HR. No one without a degree will probably recommend the same path.

I disagree with this statement of degree's mattering more. We are seeing more and more people get jobs without degree's than previously before. Hell they are even hiring electrical engineers without degree's. The last statement is far and few in-between, but the fact that its happening shows changes in the way the job market is looking for top tier talent. I've worked at several places where a degree required changed to "recommended" from mandatory. I'm not saying to the OP to not go to college, but i'm saying the value in a degree is not what it once was.

geekboss

shodown wrote: »

I disagree with this statement of degree's mattering more. We are seeing more and more people get jobs without degree's than previously before. Hell they are even hiring electrical engineers without degree's. The last statement is far and few in-between, but the fact that its happening shows changes in the way the job market is looking for top tier talent. I've worked at several places where a degree required changed to "recommended" from mandatory. I'm not saying to the OP to not go to college, but i'm saying the value in a degree is not what it once was.

This is sort of what I was thinking. It seems like from everyone I've talked to in IT is that IT is one of the few jobs where skills matter far more then degrees. Perhaps employers are starting to realize that degrees don't necessarily mean that someone is more educated, it just means that they're further in debt.

Plantwiz

It all just 'depends'.

It depends on how intelligent one is and if they can troubleshoot AND solve the problem.

It depends on how well the person works with others, particularly those who disagree with your methods.

It depends on how much cost savings one brings to the table.

It depends if one 'knows' someone who can connect them to the 'right' people.

It depends if one has the guts to simply walk out the door and grab the work as it comes, make suggestions, make improvements, and works with great integrity and dedication...self-employment can be the most rewarding and in many cases the least limiting for job/contract opportunities.

No degree may keep one from gaining some contracts, but you did not want that contract anyway.

Point being, there is a plethora of work and money out there...just need to be the right person in the right place to get it!


Degrees can help. Certs can help. Degrees and certs can help. However, if the person is a jerk. Difficult to work with or simply makes a lot of errors or is slow to complete work...they are too expensive to keep on payroll.

If you opt to skip a degree, don't dwell on it, get out in the work place and prove your skills. If you think you want to pursue this, it is never too late to start. Save up some money first beforehand to avoid that silly pitfall of debt folks get themselves into...that's where degrees make the least amount of sense to me.

5502george

.....if your goal is to work for someone your whole life a degree will def help. It is not needed by any means if your goal is to make money. It all depends on what and how you plan on making money. I say that because I know both; people that are/are not educated that make more.....and some way more than me.

DissonantData

I have a degree in finance and a comp sci minor. What I suggest is to emphasize any computer related coursework you have taken and obtain certs. The advantage of having a degree is that you have more choices in life, such as being accepted into a second bachelors degree program or a masters program.

Is there a reason other than debt you don't want a degree? Is the coursework uninteresting? Is it time consuming? Consider various options. If you are heavily into math and theory, try computer science. If you are into a combination of computers and business, try information systems.

TeKniques

It really depends what you want to do and how quickly you want to get there. Getting into senior management for example is very difficult without a degree ... there are exceptions, but they are rare.

remixisme wrote: »

Degrees are over rated

A degree is not 'overrated' if you pursue and achieve one that has a particular high ROI. Computer Science, Engineering (computer, civil, mechanical, electrical), Math, Business, Accounting, Nursing are all excellent examples of degrees with a high ROI.

geekboss

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I do not want to be in management. I'd like to be in a network engineer position. Making 70-80k would be great. Possible without degree and just certs?

TeKniques

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Very possible indeed. Go with Cisco and start looking for entry level network technician opportunities to build some experience. If you work hard you'll get there quicker than you might think.

instant000

geekboss wrote: »

Hi all, just curious on how necessary a degree is in the IT industry.

It depends ...

I only have 3 years at a vocational school for Networking and security.

Be more positive: I have completed 3/4 years towards a Technical Certificate in Networking and Security at Such-and-Such Technical College.

I just started a desktop support job about four months ago making 30k a year.

Congrats! You are gaining work experience.

Is it possible to move into a better position at a different company within a couple of years?

Yes, it is possible.

What Certs should I obtain to be a network admin and what kind of salary should I expect?

Depending upon how much you learned in school, you should be able to clear CCNA and CCNA:Security with a few months of labbing. That should be enough to help you get a network admin job.

The salaries depend on how much your customer pays for your skills. I believe that you could double your current salary with CCNA, but without knowing your location and where you're trying to work, that could just be wild speculation.

Did I make a mistake not going to college?

That remains to be seen. If you go back to school for a degree in technology, and you already work in technology, you would be able to complete it very inexpensively.

Don't worry about second-guessing yourself about a degree right now.

The ROI on a degree won't be there if you're in the 30K salary range. You will just find yourself poorer, and in the same job, or the manager of a 30K job, making 40 or 50K. The greater ROI at this level is in CCNA/CCNP. Going that route would have you quickly doubling your salary.

Once you're in the 80k+ range, you might find that a lot of your competitors have degrees by this time. If you have secured a degree by this time, that would be cool. If not, you would want to consider it.

Hope this helps.

instant000

geekboss wrote: »

I do not want to be in management. I'd like to be in a network engineer position. Making 70-80k would be great. Possible without degree and just certs?

Yes, that salary range is quite reachable with experience and certs.

Don't forget that as you get in the higher range, things like vacation time and flextime will probably begin to matter a lot more.

Hope this helps!

clouder

No degree with a good salary here, but preparing to go for one after almost 12 years in the field. Reasoning is equal parts personal goal and reaching a point in my career where some contract positions do require it. Every job I've ever applied for or gotten has valued experience at least as much as the degree, if not more.

LarryDaMan

shodown wrote: »

I know people in this industry who make over 500K with no degree

Unless you invented, built, founded, or sold (or stole) something, that isn't very realistic in IT without a degree. If you expect to make a hefty living working for the man (someone else's company), you should go ahead and get a degree.

LarryDaMan

geekboss wrote: »

I do not want to be in management. I'd like to be in a network engineer position. Making 70-80k would be great. Possible without degree and just certs?

But how about at 50 years old, still want to be configuring routers? Don't be shortsighted. A lot of people profess profound love for networking, but maybe the you in 20 years will be thankful that the you now got that degree.

shodown

LarryDaMan wrote: »

Unless you invented, built, founded, or sold (or stole) something, that isn't very realistic in IT without a degree. If you expect to make a hefty living working for the man (someone else's company), you should go ahead and get a degree.

Your 100 percent correct.

AwesomeGarrett

I tell what a degree will help with in the present and that is not getting weird looks from HR.

I earned my CCNP earlier this month and started looking for work the week after. A few phone interviews here, a few meet and greets there, but one thing never fails is that look from an HR person when you tell them you've never finished your degree.

Technical people really don't care, they just want to know what you know and if they are going to have to clean up after you once you come on board.

HR people have given me this "how have you made it this far in life without a degree?" look.

wes allen

It can open some doors, but there are also a lot of doors that will open without it, as long as you work hard at what you do. The real advantage in my mind, is a degree will make it easier to transition to a new career or into management. If any techy friends ask, I usually recommend a non tech degree if they are already experienced/have certs/etc. Tech skills + biz degree isn't a bad way to go.

Shdwmage

I personally do not have a degree at all. I was fortunate enough to get into a company and go to work right away. The problem is so many people that have degrees aren't any good because they don't have real life experience. I have 14 years of experience and the company I started at just recently is paying to train me to be a data center manager. It's a long hard road, and to start with you'll make less, but the experience will open doors faster than the education, at least for larger companies.

Polynomial

geekboss wrote: »

This is sort of what I was thinking. It seems like from everyone I've talked to in IT is that IT is one of the few jobs where skills matter far more then degrees. Perhaps employers are starting to realize that degrees don't necessarily mean that someone is more educated, it just means that they're further in debt.

How are you going to learn anything?

This forum really forgets that a degree can be more than a piece of paper. As in you can take relevant classes.

Its really far too romantic to go "prove your skills" in the workplace and get promoted into the positions you want.

DoubleNNs

Even w/ taking relevant classes, I didn't learn much of anything in class in college. (Didn't finish my degree - 2 semesters out)

The thing that college DID help me w/ was the whole experience and the strengthening of my soft skills. Other than that, I honestly feel as if I wasted my time (especially since I don't have the degree to show for it.)

Polynomial

If you quit 2 semesters out then yeah, unfortunately, that might have been a waste of time.

But the problem here is the students I see in the computer science program at my employer who put in the effort and are truly passionate for the material graduate to multiple job prospects.

So more people are getting bachelor degrees these day which in theory decreases their value. What if you don't have one at all?

geekboss

If you quit 2 semesters out then yeah, unfortunately, that might have been a waste of time.

But the problem here is the students I see in the computer science program at my employer who put in the effort and are truly passionate for the material graduate to multiple job prospects.

So more people are getting bachelor degrees these day which in theory decreases their value. What if you don't have one at all?

No. It decreases their value. And when college is an 80k investment its value doesn't look too great. everyone I've talked to said that skills and experience outweigh a degree. And at my current workplace, they really don't care about degrees.


Also, I do have the equilvelent of an associates degree in Network engineering. I just didn't pay for the credits. I can use that in an interview.

Polynomial

The problem here geekboss, is that you already made up your mind. You need to approach this topic with a more balanced approach.

The complication is the bachelor's degree of today is slowly becoming the high school diploma of yesterday. Everyone has them and its becoming "expected".

Take Iris's story who is also into networks. (Sorry Iris!) She decided to merge the affordability and accreditation of WGU degrees with highly relevant technical ability. She will outperform you in the job market because she built the holy triangle of certification, degrees and experience.

Its like fighting a war with a navy, army and air force instead of just one branch.