Interviewing for a Network Engineer Position % 100 Travel

bugzy3188

Hello All,

I landed an interview this week for a network engineer position. I have been studying for my CCNA for a few months now which helped quite a bit. The position requires that I attend cisco training in their lab, this is unpaid and would require me to quit my current job for the alotted 2 to 3 months of training and take something overnight or part time as 25 to 30 hours a week is required.

I was I formed in the phone interview that this position requires up to % 100 travel with contracts lasting up to 6 months anywhere in the us. They would pay for lodging, transportation, per diem, and flights back home every other weekend. This is a very exciting prospect for me but is a bit nerrve wracking as well. Obviously similar positions differ with the employer but I'd like to hear if anyone else has expirience in a similar position, what were the amenities like? (lodging, transportation, etc.) did you enjoy the travel? Any insight on experiences in a similar position would be appreciated.

Thanks!!!

ratbuddy

You lost me at 2-3 months of unpaid training.

TheProf

Sounds like an interesting opportunity and the travel aspect of the job really depends on the individual. Personally I've traveled for work many times in the past, even going to different countries for a few weeks at a time. It can be fun, interesting, something new, however at the same time I can see it getting harder the longer you do it. You're always waiting for flights or driving from state to state, living in hotel rooms, etc.

The experience is valuable however, doing this for a year can prove to be really helpful with other opportunities and of course it also depends on the job and the experience you gain.

Look at the pros and cons of such opportunity and what works for you. Some people like traveling, others don't.

Although not really sure about the unpaid training part.. Why is it unpaid?

bugzy3188

I was told that they invest $50, 000 in personalized training for each engineer. The training is 2 to 3 mo ths of in tense Cisco training (his words) and they are unable to compensate for this.

ratbuddy

Sorry, if they can invest 50k in training you, they can invest another 5k to pay you. I'm not a lawyer but not paying you for training, when there is an expectation of hire at the end, well, that sounds illegal.

Bokeh

Sounds like a CraigsList ad that was going around the twin cities last year. 2-3 months training, guaranteed 100k/year. "Recruiter" really couldn't talk about it till you came in to the office, signed paperwork, etc. That particular one turned out to be a sort of scam - we train you for free BUT you owe us a percentage of your salary for the next 3 years to pay back your training.

Be careful, check them out online, with BBB, etc.

YFZblu

Bokeh wrote: »

we train you for free BUT you owe us a percentage of your salary for the next 3 years to pay back your training.

Be careful, check them out online, with BBB, etc.

This is the first thing I thought of as well.

bugzy3188

Bokeh wrote: »

Sounds like a CraigsList ad that was going around the twin cities last year. 2-3 months training, guaranteed 100k/year. "Recruiter" really couldn't talk about it till you came in to the office, signed paperwork, etc. That particular one turned out to be a sort of scam - we train you for free BUT you owe us a percentage of your salary for the next 3 years to pay back your training.

Be careful, check them out online, with BBB, etc.

Actually the recruiter was very open about the position, they just paid to run a full background check on me (requested a copy) and I have done research on the company themselves and for all intents and purposes, they seem legit, and for what its worth they have an A+ rating on the BBB. I won't be making any decisions however, until I interview this week. While I will admit it is strange that they do not pay for training, I do not believe this to be a scam.

EdTheLad

Sounds like a good number, just don't sign a contract saying you will repay training costs if you quit before 12 months etc, since you are not getting paid a salary while training this wouldn't be fair. I've worked lots of contracts like this, working in different countries, normally accommodation and meals are great. It will fun for a couple of years, the per diem is a great way to save cash. I'm still working like this now, 10 years + lol, but i'll be settling down soon .

Danielm7

Still sounds sketchy to me, maybe I'm just jaded. But you have to take their "$50,000" training for 2 months, not get paid, and pay them $50K back while working for them? I have a lot of trouble believing that the training is worth $25K a month, but they can't afford to pay you AND you have to pay back the probably grossly inflated amount back.

I know they have a good BBB rating but I'd still be extremely cautious, they also might make people sign an agreement that they won't post anything negative or there will be legal action, etc.

bugzy3188

Danielm7 wrote: »

Still sounds sketchy to me, maybe I'm just jaded. But you have to take their "$50,000" training for 2 months, not get paid, and pay them $50K back while working for them? I have a lot of trouble believing that the training is worth $25K a month, but they can't afford to pay you AND you have to pay back the probably grossly inflated amount back.

I know they have a good BBB rating but I'd still be extremely cautious, they also might make people sign an agreement that they won't post anything negative or there will be legal action, etc.

There is no requirement to pay anything back for the training, I am simply not going to get paid while attending. I was told that. I will need to sign a non-compete stating that I wouldn't jump ship with any of their clients for 2 years, I was told that this was a way of protecting their investment. I plan to read anything I sign in full before putting ink on paper espescially given the nature of this conversation.

networker050184

Smells like one of those training scams where they guarantee you a job after and take half your pay. I'd run as far and as fast as possible.

redz

Lodging is great (especially if you get gov't rates), per diem is amazing. One of my last big trips was to Bahrain. Five star hotels and $230/day, tax free, on top of my paycheck.

Negotiate a $5,000 signing bonus so that you can live while you're in their training. $5,000 is probably effectively nothing to them.

As a side note: Do not trust the BBB. They're a scam organization. It's pay for play, just like the PCI and HIPAA scammers whose audits show up perfect even though they have literally no security controls. If they're a BBB member, it means they pay dues, which means they have an A+.

pitviper

bugzy3188 wrote: »

The training is 2 to 3 months of intense Cisco training (his words) and they are unable to compensate for this.

Never seen a shop require unpaid training - And I work with some big ones. Also, "intense" training? As in, you’re being setup to fail (and will need to pay the training $$ back!?)?

bugzy3188

Thanks for the insight everyone, I don't mind posting a link to the website of the company that I am interviewing for but my interview is tomorrow, are there any potential downsides to doing so? Id hate to miss an opportunity because of something like that. Attending the physical interview will be the determining factor here in whether this is a scam or not though I still am not convinced that it is, I haven't been able to find one negative report about this company, even with some fairly intense Googling, the employee reviews are all positive (Though I am aware that it is entirely possible that they are rigged).

With that being said, let’s assume for a second that the position is real and is not a scam. They are offering $20 to $30 an hour DOE. I have been working at an MSP for 1.5 years making $15 an hour. I have been a field technician for one year of that time, setting up networking equipment, servers, workstations, writing proposals, etc. I am looking to take home $25 an hour when all is said and done, should I request $27 an hour? Or would it be best just to cut to the chase?

networker050184

Please do post the link to the site. I know you want to believe it's a good opportunity, but every one of these I've seen through the years is a scam unfortunately. It doesn't matter what they say to you right now, the only thing that matters is how the contract reads that you put your name on.

bugzy3188

networker050184 wrote: »

Please do post the link to the site. I know you want to believe it's a good opportunity, but every one of these I've seen through the years is a scam unfortunately. It doesn't matter what they say to you right now, the only thing that matters is how the contract reads that you put your name on.

Home

networker050184

I haven't heard of this company, but regardless I wouldn't take their 'free' training. Nothing in this world is free. I can almost guarantee you that you will be required to sign a contract working for them for peanuts until you pay back the training. They may tell you $20-$30 an hour but how much of that do you think you will actually see? Maybe $10 an hour after they pull their money for the training they gave you?

I can't tell you 100% this is a scam, but it sounds exactly like ones in the past I've seen. Try to do a search on the forums and see what you can find. I'll post a link to some of the others if I can get some time to search.

routergods

I would run away from this as fast as you can.

This sounds like a recycled training scam. We've had two to three versions of these in Southern California run by the same idiot.

EdTheLad

I find their testimonials very strange indeed, they don't give the details of any company, just generic descriptions.
Why would you put a testimonial and not say who it's from? it means nothing then.
Smells like a scam to me.

Chief Operating Officer, Global Media Company
President, National Retail Company
Director of IT, Enterprise Systems
Chief Executive Officer, International Trucking Company
President of Operations, Enterprise Consulting Company
Chief Information Officer, Insurance Company
Vice President of Information Systems, Global Healthcare Company

ratbuddy

I wonder if this is the training: https://www.mtlcmn.org/what-we-do/

They accept donations but there is no way to sign up for a class? Sketchy. The news page lists the owner of Aston (Adrian Natnayake) as one of the founders.

In any case, I'd run the contract by an honest-to-goodness lawyer, and I'd insist on getting paid during 'training.' Well, I'd just dismiss the 'opportunity' entirely, but that's just me.

routergods

Corporate records seem to be in order
Business Filing Details

Judgements and Civil Case Records are clear

The CEO comes up clean. Linkedin accounts by current and former employees look good.

Two entries on Glassdoor by former employees seem decent.

Nothing on Ripoffreport (not the greatest site in the world.. but it's useful once in a while)

Registered as a Cisco partner

goldenlight

WORKING for free 2-3 months. Definitely sound illegal.

My previous Employer wouldn't even allow me to work on special IT Projects for free and this was at the same company. Run! this is a Scam.



Personally I rather see you get a job at a legit company at a lower salary.


NON-COMPETE CONTRACT IS VERY BAD!

kenop

my 2 cents on the job offer:

1. keep this in mind. You're likely to be worth a lot more to them and any other competitor after 2-3 months of nearly full time on the job training.

2. The salary figure may be good for where you're from, but 100% travel results in a much smaller pool of potential employees, and faster than average turnaround (you get burnt out after a couple years). What this means is salaries are significantly better than the same job with no or little travel. I would be shooting for more pay for sure. And be happy, per diem on 100% travel means you will be taking home significantly more than your $25/hr. No one can eat $100+/day of food lol. (rates vary around the country but it's always more than enough to take home "extra" salary from per diem.)

3. About that burning out, yeah I've done it and the travel is a lot of fun at first, but it wears on you over time. Plan to build up your experience, see the country, and enjoy that for a year or two. AFter that, many people feel like going back to something with moderate travel instead of 100%. YMMV of course.

4. check w/ your state laws and research a bit. non-compete contracts when the company is as broad as IT consulting, which this company looks like it falls into, are NOT enforceable in most cases. Which is good news for you in the long run.

5. just be 100% careful. things look legit with that company, but the unpaid training thing is HIGHLY suspect. I don't even think it's legal in most states.

If you get the job, find out if the travel is booked by their internal department or if you handle all expenses and get reimbursed. Pray for the latter! Sign up for frequent flyer cards at each major airline, with a few car rental companies, and with at least one big hotel chain, plus hotels.com.. (I prefer Southwest, Hertz/Avis, and Marriott). Strongly consider opening a credit card with an airline (or travelocity), and whenever you book travel, stick to the properties you're tied in to to rack up major points.

Within a couple months I was a Marriott Platinum Elite member with free room upgrades, food, perks, earning free rooms all the time, and drowning in enough southwest points to fly free all over the place. SW even has a Companion Pass you can earn easily, which lets anyone else fly with you for free for upwards of 2 years. Don't miss out on these opportunities.

kenop

Careers and Placement at M State
Looks like there's the JD.
I see now that they're specifically looking to snag new grads, hence the ability to get away with unpaid training and lower pay.

I'd say it's not a bad thing to jump start a career. Go for it, but don't stick around too long. A year of this under your belt and you should jump to somewhere with less travel and +30% salary.

petedude

kenop wrote: »

4. check w/ your state laws and research a bit. non-compete contracts when the company is as broad as IT consulting, which this company looks like it falls into, are NOT enforceable in most cases. Which is good news for you in the long run.

Better yet, enforceable or not, is the matter of how successful non-compete litigation is. Even if there's law or case precedent to support it, it may be that in some areas it's so difficult to win some companies won't even try.

networker050184

kenop wrote: »

Careers and Placement at M State
Looks like there's the JD.
I see now that they're specifically looking to snag new grads, hence the ability to get away with unpaid training and lower pay.

I'd say it's not a bad thing to jump start a career. Go for it, but don't stick around too long. A year of this under your belt and you should jump to somewhere with less travel and +30% salary.

That job posting expired in 2011! Seems like they've been up to this for a while. I wouldn't get anywhere near this personally.

kenop

networker050184 wrote: »

That job posting expired in 2011! Seems like they've been up to this for a while. I wouldn't get anywhere near this personally.

I understand the suspicion, as I felt this way at first too. But lots of other stuff checks out on this company, maybe it's just the way they do things.

As for the posting being from 2011, it's not unreasonable to think that they continuously recruit employees. Keep in mind that faster than usual turnaround w/ these travel jobs too.. they probably have to hire replacements often.

networker050184

I don't think there will be anything to find that doesn't check out from a legal stand point. After all it is not illegal to have someone sign a contract basically giving you all of their pay after you train them. It's been done over and over through different companies. Just because it's not illegal doesn't mean they aren't screwing you over though.

kenop

Consider this -- IF the OP:
* Wants this line of work.
* Can handle the 2-3 months unpaid.
* Has no other good prospects for the work or salary he's looking for.

Then this wouldn't be getting screwed over, it's just acceptable risk.

Now if OP has a very similar job lined up and doesn't have this training stipulation, I doubt we'd be here debating this post

networker050184

Right, the training stipulation is the 'screwing over' part. There are plenty other companies that will pay you while you train. Not some unpaid training that surely comes with a hefty payback contract.