So difficult to get your foot in the door

Hey guys, I guess I am just ranting, but MAN it is difficult to get your foot in the door without much experience. =( I live in southern Louisiana and all the entry level desktop support/ help desk jobs want like 2 years experience. I thought having the "holy trinity (A+, Net+, Sec+)" certifications would help me land an entry level job, but does not seem to be the case. Oh well enough of my rant, I hope everyone else who is looking for jobs are having better luck than I am.

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DoubleNNs

Some people are just better at using EVERY tool at their disposal. I don't see why you should despise them for that.

coreyb80

pert wrote: »

I've gotten every single job I've ever had based on what I know, and as a general rule I despise working with people who got theirs through other means.

What other means are there? I'm pretty sure EVERY job didn't hire based off what you know even though you would like to believe that. I'm sure personality, willingness to learn, etc came in to play somewhere.

edzyyy

It is a little bothersome when posters brag about the positions they got with "no experience or certs"

SteveFT

Knowing someone is always helpful. If you don't know anyone in the IT field, then you should start meeting people. Chances are that you probably do know someone, directly or indirectly, that can help you find a job.

I decided to switch careers in July of this year. I completed the A+ and N+ certifications in about three months. A few weeks later, I went on an interview and was ultimately hired as a contractor. These positions are great for experience and the pay can be okay.

Keep at it!

DoubleNNs

No Experience and No Certs != No Knowledge.

astrogeek

If you have the time you should also look for internships, if there is a local community college they might be able to help you out with that. Also keep in mind that a lot of community college IT teachers either already have a primary IT position during the day, or they may at least have some good contacts from a former role that may have some opportunities to help you out.

Xyro

DoubleNNs wrote: »

No Experience and No Certs != No Knowledge.

It may mean knowlegde that is "unprovable" but it definitely doesn't mean no knowledge at all.

proph21

Being someone in a semi-similar boat, as my first post, I just want to tell you to not get discouraged and know that the job will come soon. I have an Associates in business /w emphasis on technology as well as a Bachelors in Cybersecurity. Finding a job has been nothing, but difficult. I regret not doing an internship while in school because all the entry-level positions in this field around me want 2 years experience minimal and an active clearance.

Just keep polishing your skills (keep the knowledge fresh), keep learning, and keep applying. Best of luck to you.

puertorico1985

I can understand why someone may find my post "bothersome" and I apologize if it sounded like I was bragging. I simply wanted to give my side of the story to someone starting out in this field. I believe that every one has to start somewhere, and I started out in IT grinding it out every single day like many others here, and that is what I wanted to share with OP.

Getting a position in this field is never 100% what you know. Other factors will always come into play.

the_Grinch

Honestly, in this world you need to work your contacts. Networking is honestly the greatest skill one can have in their arsenal. When I was first starting out I go maybe four interviews that were based solely off resume. I had two years of part time tech experience, CCENT, CEH, and Security+. Four interviews and not one offer. Finally, I decided to work the contacts that I had and see if that netted me anything. That's when I landed my first job and the rest is history.

So speak to friends, family, former coworkers, and anyone else you have some rapport with. I know a lot of professors were always helpful in introducing me to various people they had dealings with. Join some local computer groups (LUG, etc) and make some contacts.

pert

Why do people have to pretend that using contacts, networking friends, and using social connections to get job does anything other than allow them to get a job over a more qualified person? I understand the world we live in, people will do whatever it takes to survive. Impossible to blame someone for fighting for their survival in a way that is not illegal.

However, why lie about it though, self deception? Who are you trying to convince? Yourself or the person who is more qualified that didn't get the job? Both of you know what the truth is, so why the song and dance routine? Maybe it's an immigrant mentality, but my family moved here based on the idea of America being a meritocracy. I was always comforted by the idea that if you were the best you would win. Obviously, it's complete bullshit, but I still wish we lived in a society like that.

No one is interested in being competent anymore, just in the appearance of being competent, and the appearance of working hard. You see it all the time: Critical outage occurs, incompetent guy can't solve it, but drives to the site in the middle of the night, talks about all these things he tried, eventually solves it 6 hours later through trial and error, get's an "ATTABOY!". Takes that Friday off to "make up that time". Competent guy wakes up, remotes in, solves in in 5 mins, goes back to sleep. Someone might notice there was a short outage, competent guy says "yeah, it was X, just did Y and fixed it, no big deal". Never spoken of again or remembered by anybody.

puertorico1985

@pert: While your post may or may not be directed towards me, I will respond anyways. My first job was acquired because of who I knew, but it was a low-level Helpdesk position answering phones (no troubleshooting, just opening tickets). My background before IT was in Sales and Marketing. So while I did not know much about computers, I did (and do) know how to speak to people including angry users/customers. With that said, every subsequent job I have had after that was acquired because of my drive, my knowledge, and my experience and my ability to show that during an interview. Even though I do not have anything in my signature or the left-hand column, I am certified in many areas, have several years of experience, and am a year away from a Master's degree. I can speak for myself when I say that I know what I am doing, and just because I started off with "who I knew to get a position" does not mean that I have had to use that method for any subsequent positions.

I understand your position, and do believe it is unfair that those with connections sometimes get chosen over those with the qualifications and experience necessary to perform a job function. But such is life, and I work to better myself everyday at my job and at life, and it does not hurt me one bit to network and get to know people in positions that can one day be used to better my position.

yzT

When you are applying for a job which you are not qualified due to the "minimum experience requirement", do you state anything related to this requirement in the cover letter?

fontenjj

I only send a resume and not a cover letter, that right there is probably a huge problem right there haha. But in all honesty I really do not know how to write a "correct" cover letter or even know exactly what is supposed to be on a cover letter to be honest.

coreyb80

yzT wrote: »

When you are applying for a job which you are not qualified due to the "minimum experience requirement", do you state anything related to this requirement in the cover letter?

For those jobs that I really wanted I definitely sent a cover letter explaining my education journey as well as my experiences.

diggitle

Have you tried using a company like Teksystems, Robert half, etc? They usually can get you in on contracts regardless of exp, or certs. I know this because that's how I got into IT. I had just a AS degree from ITT Tech with no experience and even I was able to get into Information technology. Give it a shot.

3510 North Causeway Boulevard
Suite 601
Metairie , Louisiana 70002

P: 504.218.2650
T: 888.866.0322
F: 504.218.2690

Office Leader: Martin Posey,
Director of Business Operations

cknapp78

Not sure where in Louisiana you are located but my company is always hiring in Baton Rouge. Probably the best company I have ever worked for in 18 years as a professional. Moved down here from New Jersey about 3 months ago and loving it. PM me if you are interested and I can point you in the right direction.

Corey

Jon_Cisco

@pert: I think we need to consider more then just qualifications. While I think skills are important there is a lot more to an interview then confirming your resume is accurate.

In my current field I am very confident in my abilities and have no doubt that I could compete with other applicants to get a job. However for the last 20+ years I have worked for three companies. I was the only applicant considered for the positions due to positive referrals.

I think the real benefit to networking is being considered for positions that were not available until someone comes along and can fill the roll. You can't find them on a job board you need to put yourself out there and see what happens. I am planning to switch careers in the next couple of years and hope that I might know a few people that can provide me with leads. I will then need to step up my game and make a positive impression with whoever gives me a shot.

Good Luck everyone. I enjoy the job threads because like everyone else the idea of job hunting just makes me nervous. We all have bills to pay!

fontenjj

cknapp78 wrote: »

Not sure where in Louisiana you are located but my company is always hiring in Baton Rouge. Probably the best company I have ever worked for in 18 years as a professional. Moved down here from New Jersey about 3 months ago and loving it. PM me if you are interested and I can point you in the right direction.

Corey

cknapp78, I just sent you a pm

lsud00d

I finally got a second to run through your resume. These are the points I typed out.

I would make the personal information in the header and spread it over two lines. You can seperate the differencing information with a dot (not a period) character
I would remove the objective, technical skills, technology proficiencies, and summary of skills and reiterate the most prominent and important part in a "Profile" section. This would include operating systems you have worked with, specific software, anything you've done with your certs related to experience, and then general points of those sections that support a strong customer service and detail oriented employee
I would remove "-Duties and responsibilities" since it is redundant and understood
For the work history, anything that is IT related list specific technologies. What manufacturer/version of the POS equipment did you work with? What exactly did you do with the RS232 data cables? Did you terminate and run them? Did you help with planning and assessment?
For the security officer, elaborate more as this will help with the customer service aspect of a help desk type position.
I would retitle the last work experience to 'Volunteer Computer Technician'
What operating systems did you work with? How did you protect from viruses, malware, etc? Did you run automated scans, use specific tools to remove bad stuff? What brands and versions of this software did you work with?
For 'keep computers updated', did you manually run Windows Updates? If so you can word it as "Identified and addressed vulnerable Windows XP computers by reviewing and installing applicable OS and Software updates"
What does repair computer systems mean? Did you do hardware replacement? Did you build computers from scratch? This kind of blends into the last point as well.

You can definitely get this down to one page. You have some relevant experience and the certifications will help a lot. Get more specific with what technologies/software/hardware you have worked with

fontenjj

Thank you very much for the advice on my resume. I really appreciate it, you have no idea

earonw49

fontenjj wrote: »

Thank you very much for the advice on my resume. I really appreciate it, you have no idea

We are all here to help!

Trust me, you got a good community here who all wants to see each other succeed!

dsgm

coreyb80 wrote: »

For those jobs that I really wanted I definitely sent a cover letter explaining my education journey as well as my experiences.

Funny i had an interview with someone from TEKsystems Wednesday and she said all the nice stuff, can hook me up with a job. Liked my resume was going to send me some pointers, i already did a Cisco assessment test and passed with flying colours, said she would be sending me a windows 7 assessment on the day, Wednesday and i felt good but i haven't heard from her yet.

I am new to the country and so far I am not liking the recruiters one bit....

SteveFT

pert wrote: »

Why do people have to pretend that using contacts, networking friends, and using social connections to get job does anything other than allow them to get a job over a more qualified person?

How does having contacts make you less qualified? Also, we're talking about getting your foot in the door here. Most help desk problems are simple even for someone with no experience. Furthermore, why does having more knowledge automatically make someone more qualified. For example, there are plenty of people out there with all of the tech skills necessary. However, they cannot effectively communicate with users, they cannot educate the users, and they might very well be lazy.

It isn't always black and white.

fredrikjj

pert wrote: »

Why do people have to pretend that using contacts, networking friends, and using social connections to get job does anything other than allow them to get a job over a more qualified person?

It's the nature of the beast when operating under imperfect information. Imagine a company actually trying find the "best" candidate. For a tech position that would involve hours of interviews conducted by senior engineers. Not to mention extensive hands on labs... with like 100 different people. All this, for what? The slight chance of finding a diamond in the rough. The only option is to drastically reduce the number of candidates based on formal credentials or recommendations before you start doing extensive interviews.

Nytrocide

Success101 wrote: »

Hang in there. Something I have learned is "It's all about who you know". Seriously, I have seen complete idiots in the most Senior level positions. Try to expand your network.

I can relate to that...I had a "Senior Application Database Admin" ask me where to change the resolution the other day. She makes about $135k a year...it blows my mind how idiotic people/companies can be in the hiring process.

tpatt100

My first IT job was due to the guy who sat next to me in my computer technician class I was taking at night school. He was hired at a defense contracting corporation and referred me for a job opening a year later. I guess it helps to work on people skills so people remember you as somebody they would want to work with.

the_Grinch

If you aren't using every resource available to your then you are putting yourself at a disadvantage. That being said, I've never used a connection for a job I couldn't do. I wouldn't put a company or a contact in a position where they suffer from my being hired there. I've had people say "oh you'd be great here" show me the position and then I'd pass on it. In turn, I've had people desperate for a job, I'd offer to get them in where I was, but explained how the culture worked before hand. All have spoken up if they didn't feel it was right for them.

As an aside, a Senior Application Database Admin not knowing how to change a screen resolution doesn't surprise me. There are desktop people who's sole purpose in life is to know how to change that. If you are a specialist and work in such a capacity then you are being paid for that skill. I've had to defend members of a team I was part of for thinking like that (oh you're in IT you should know how to do this). Comments like "oh he couldn't figure that out, is he not very good at his job?" No, he's amazing at his job, but what you asked isn't his job. I like the analogy that IT is a lot like being a doctor. All doctors have the same basic training, but once they specialize you don't go to a oncologist when you have a cough.

Honestly, I had that view point for about half of my career. You make all that money and can't do x or y? But what I found was two things normally happens. Either someone from management does the same thing and you see how wrong they are (which in turn allowed me to see how wrong I was). Or the person tries to do something they have no knowledge of and screw things up big time. I'd rather you ask then myself or someone else having to clean up a bigger mess.

earonw49

the_Grinch wrote: »

If you aren't using every resource available to your then you are putting yourself at a disadvantage. That being said, I've never used a connection for a job I couldn't do. I wouldn't put a company or a contact in a position where they suffer from my being hired there. I've had people say "oh you'd be great here" show me the position and then I'd pass on it. In turn, I've had people desperate for a job, I'd offer to get them in where I was, but explained how the culture worked before hand. All have spoken up if they didn't feel it was right for them.

As an aside, a Senior Application Database Admin not knowing how to change a screen resolution doesn't surprise me. There are desktop people who's sole purpose in life is to know how to change that. If you are a specialist and work in such a capacity then you are being paid for that skill. I've had to defend members of a team I was part of for thinking like that (oh you're in IT you should know how to do this). Comments like "oh he couldn't figure that out, is he not very good at his job?" No, he's amazing at his job, but what you asked isn't his job. I like the analogy that IT is a lot like being a doctor. All doctors have the same basic training, but once they specialize you don't go to a oncologist when you have a cough.

Honestly, I had that view point for about half of my career. You make all that money and can't do x or y? But what I found was two things normally happens. Either someone from management does the same thing and you see how wrong they are (which in turn allowed me to see how wrong I was). Or the person tries to do something they have no knowledge of and screw things up big time. I'd rather you ask then myself or someone else having to clean up a bigger mess.

This post.

I am clapping from my chair.

Thank you for this.

linuxlover

That's like saying a car mechanic doesn't need to know how to turn wipers on because that's not his job. His job is fixing the engine, brakes... and not knowing how to turn wipers on or which pedal is the clutch. Sense makes none.

If I ran across someone like that, sorry if I offend anyone, but I'd start looking for another job because I wouldn't want to work in a company that hires people like that. It doesn't matter what type of IT branch you specialize in, the foundation is a requirement for everyone. Just like CCENT. You can't be a CCIE without knowing how to connect a router to a host.